This is really comparing apples to oranges. 50 years ago sports were not as mainstream as they are today. In addition, the media took a backseat compared to what they do today. Also, endorsements were non-existant.
It was much more difficult for a player to have such an impact off the court as it is today.
I still disagree because there are so many great players who never won championships even with great teams around them because they weren't team players.
Playing within a team is far more important than great individual skills. The old adage (the sum of the whole is greater than the sum of its parts) truly applies to a great team.
The ideal is when your great team is made up of great individuals "magic's and kareem's lakers".
No love for Dr. J here?
Might want to send a memo around the league to refresh (almost)everyones memory.
Agree totally. I have stopped watching basketball for this very reason.
There nothing more disturbing in the game when a player smack talks to the other team when he dunks/drains a 3/... and he is losing.
Today's players have totally lost what it means to be a team.
Krazy4Real
Lifer
- Oct 3, 2003
- 12,221
- 55
- 91
Inspector Jihad
Lifer
- Apr 17, 2005
- 13,465
- 3
- 81
why do so many people have this misconception? The top teams play excellent team ball and even others who were considered selfish like AI and kobe, are playing team ball now. I think these are absurd and ridiculous statements.
Also, the same BS applies for people who say Jordan won by himself. Fvck that...he had a great team and definitely would not have won with a bad team.
DingDingDao
Diamond Member
- Jun 9, 2004
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Assists per game (career):
Bill Russell - 4.3
Michael Jordan - 5.3
You were saying?
That, and I don't think an anti-team player is going to make first team all-defense nine times (Russell made first team all-defense once).
Don't get me wrong, I think Bill Russell is easily top 5, and arguably the greatest ever to play, but the opinion you have of Michael Jordan is clearly misguided.
under these terms, you have to assume that the NBA hasn't evolved, or the NBA player since the time that Wilt played and Jordan played. Sure Wilt might lead in all those aformentioned categories but there wasn't as much talent in the NBA as there was during Jordans Era... No one can be mentioned in the same sentence as Wilt in his prime. But when Jordan was in his, you had guys like Bird, Magic Johnson, Barkley, Drexler and Stockton.
Admittedly I'm not trying to say that any of those guys compared to Jordan, just that there were a lot more players that were in his calibur of play... a bit more platooning of talent throughout the league if you will. It's harder to be a star when everyone else around you is a lot better of a player than 10-20 years previous.
The proof in the evolution in basketball and the evolution of basketball players is by looking at foreign countries, just look at how Basketball has evolved since the past two Olympics when the USA didn't win. That tells you how much basketball and the players evolve in just 8 years... and we're talking at least twice that.
i go with Wilt too, it my opinion he is clearly the babe ruth of basketball.
after wilt, to me, MJ, Magic, Big O are all on the same level, a very very high level but not wilt the stilt.
bad comparision, a single star in BBall can have MUCH more impact on a game than a single star in football. football is the ultimate in team sports.
so by your argument you'd take John Pax over John stocton. or Danny Ainge over Clyde Drexler . . .
the argument that an inferior team from a winning team is better than the superior player from the losing team is about the stupidest there is.
wilt could stand at the free throw line and take a standing jump and dunk the ball, not a running start a standing jump.
he was indeed a freak of nature but that does not take away from his status as greatest player of any generation.
also, all the marketing hype stuff you guys attribute to MJ, without stern, magic and bird, none of that would have happened, MJ by himself would never have become a household name like that, it is ridiculous to attribute ALL of that to just MJ.
conspicous by absence is the great Oscar Robertson who in my mind is CLEARLY better than Kareem or Dr J.
Inspector Jihad
Lifer
- Apr 17, 2005
- 13,465
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- 81
DingDingDao
Diamond Member
- Jun 9, 2004
- 3,044
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- 71
LOL, I know that. My point wasn't that Russell should've had higher assist numbers. My point was that Jordan was more of a team player than people give him credit for. Just because a player leads the team in scoring doesn't make him anti-team.
SP33Demon
Lifer
- Jun 22, 2001
- 27,928
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Many make my list: Magic, MJ, Russell, Olajuwon, Bird, Isiah, Julius Erving, Tim Duncan, Jerry West (aka Mr. Clutch!), Oscar Robertson, and maybe Wilt just for pure dominance alone. This goes off my philosophy of who does the most for their team: Leadership (were they champions who the team looked up to and made everyone around them better?), passing/lane vision, ability to score at will, and at least above average defense.
Guys who came close, i.e. they are insanely skilled but are just missing a few qualities: Stockton (could not score at will, wasn't much of a leader and was not clutch), Barkley (not much of a leader, subpar defense), AI (even though teammates look up to him he doesn't exhibit the same level of leadership qualities that MJ did such as demanding his teammates elevate themselves, only average defense), K-G (same leadership deficiency as AI but young and still shows promise), David Robinson (leadership deficiency, didn't pass much), Moses Malone (only weakness was passing), Kobe (far from a leader but that may change in the future if he matures, he has all the other tools), Lebron (still young but has all the tools), D-Wade (only one year so far of perfection, very promising to make this list), Patrick Ewing (lacked leadership, not the best passer and couldn't score at will), Karl Malone (even though insanely skilled, highly lacking as a leader, and never made players aside from Stockton better), Chris Webber (the furthest from leader you can get with his whining, subpar defender), and Steve Nash (same as AI lacking on the leader scale, poor defense).
Guys who came close, i.e. they are insanely skilled but are just missing a few qualities: Stockton (could not score at will, wasn't much of a leader and was not clutch), Barkley (not much of a leader, subpar defense), AI (even though teammates look up to him he doesn't exhibit the same level of leadership qualities that MJ did such as demanding his teammates elevate themselves, only average defense), K-G (same leadership deficiency as AI but young and still shows promise), David Robinson (leadership deficiency, didn't pass much), Moses Malone (only weakness was passing), Kobe (far from a leader but that may change in the future if he matures, he has all the other tools), Lebron (still young but has all the tools), D-Wade (only one year so far of perfection, very promising to make this list), Patrick Ewing (lacked leadership, not the best passer and couldn't score at will), Karl Malone (even though insanely skilled, highly lacking as a leader, and never made players aside from Stockton better), Chris Webber (the furthest from leader you can get with his whining, subpar defender), and Steve Nash (same as AI lacking on the leader scale, poor defense).
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