Originally posted by: ProfJohn
Originally posted by: heyheybooboo
Originally posted by: ProfJohn
As a country we ?give? away as much as a $1 trillion per year to certain groups via ?social spending.? I am not even counting Social Security because we buy into that in theory.
You have told this lie repeatedly without
fact. You have been refuted with links to the White House Budget Documents. You have misrepresented the Federal deficit without acknowledging the total annual Federal Debt which exceeds this annual deficit figure by nealy 200%. You have refused to acknowledge that we now pay more than $400 billion a year to service this debt.
My friend, you have no clothes. You have been exposed. Your manipulation and fear will no longer work.
Some facts for you...
Bottom of the page
Medicare and Medicaid spending in FY 2008 will be $628 billion.
link 2
Food and Nutrition Service aka Food Stamps etc $50 billion in FY 2008.
link 3
Pell Grants: money given to poor people without need of pay back $13 billion in FY 2008
link 4
Public Housing, Project-based Rental Assistance, Tenant-based Rental Assistance $27 billion FY 2008
We are up to $718 billion in Federal spending on social programs.
State spending is a little harder to detail since there are 50 states.
So I'll go with what figures I can find
link 5
"Total state Medicaid spending reached $243.6 billion" that was for 2004. I am guessing that we are spending more today, but we can go with that figure.
We are now up to $961 billion in spending on social programs. I am sure if I dig deeper I can easily find another $40 billion between state and local governments.
Would you care to amend your earlier statement, or do you have some kind of proof that shows my figures are incorrect.
As for the rest of your post? aren?t you the guy who accused me of ?obfuscation? just a few posts ago? And yet here you are talking about the deficit, debt etc. For the record I know the difference between debt and deficit and I know how much we spend on debt management.
No. Because once again you choose to manipulate and obsfucate Federal Spending, Federal Receipts & Federal Debt - which is the object of this discussion. Thank you for attempting to add state spending to qualify your manipulation of the matter at hand and thereby prove my point. From
White House Fiscal Year 2008 Budget of the United States Government Historical Tables
The Federal expense for
Medicaid for FY 2007 is estimated at
$192 billion. (In constant FY 2000 dollars this is effectively worth $163 billion because the rate of increase in the cost of medical care far exceeds that of the rate of inflation).
The Federal expense for
Medicare for FY 2007 is estimated at
$367 billion of which
$185 billion is paid with Medicare taxes. (In constant FY 2000 dollars this is effectively worth $314 billion because the rate of increase in the cost of medical care far exceeds that of the rate of inflation).
Seems to me when you do the math the actual Federal expense of Medicaid/Medicare equals $374 billion. Let's talk about Medicare after this:
<
Food and nutrition assistance
Family and Other Support Assistance
Payments to States for foster care/adoption assistance
Housing Assistance and Other
equals $97 billion dollars
Seems to me when we add thses numbers together we are coming up somewhere in the range of
$471 billion of which more than 75% of this cost is
Medicare.
Please feel free to add to these totals items such as Pell Grants, Federal employee retirement, Veterans benefits and Unemployment compensation. I think we will find the wind blown out of your compassionate conservative sails. I will note that Congress cut Pell Grant funding from $13.6 billion to $12.7 billion for FY2008 and that unemployment compensation is offset by trust fund revenues - gosh, you forgot to point that out. You are welcome to view every line item in the Federal budget from Education to Environmental Protection and list them item by item. I'd like to see where you will 'cut' the Federal Budget and eliminate those pesky give-a-ways. But if you and your buddies perpetually throw out venom like "Slash the Trillion Dollar Federal Entitlements" you need to be much, much more honest in your propoganda.
Now let's look at the 'universally accepted' biggest problem in the Federal Budget.
MEDICARE
Medicare taxes pay for Part A Medicare hospital benefits. Employers and employees pay these taxes. You are welcome to look up the rates on Google.
Medicare Part B Premium Medical Insurance is paid by the recipient and covers approximately 1/4th the cost of providing Part B medical benefits.
The cost of these premiums is allocated as follows:
If you and your wife make less than or equal to $160,000/yr your monthly premium is $93.50.
If you and your wife make greater than $160,000 and less than or equal to $200,000/yr your monthly premium is $105.80.
If you and your wife make greater than $200,000 and less than or equal to $300,000/yr your monthly premium is $124.40.
If you and your wife make greater than $300,000 and less than or equal to $400,000/yr your monthly premium is $142.90.
If you and your wife make greater than $400,000/yr your monthly premium is $161.40.
I think I see what the problem is here. How about you, Johnny?
And considering that our medical dollar is buying more than
15% less medical care (or much greater!) than it did in 2000 I'm also starting to see a trend.
And just for sheets and giggles
let everyone look at your propaganda and compassionate conservatism from the Ronald Reagan School for Supply-Sider Truthy Propaganda.
We are on track to exceed another $530 billion in debt this fiscal year 'down' from $574 billion in the previous fiscal year. ProfJohn says, "See, supply-side economics is not voodoo afterall. We are only going in debt a measely half a trillion dollars this year!"
I particularly liked where you defended a federal flat tax. Huzzah, Johnny!
Insert your Rovian Talking Points here ----> ____<-----
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