GPUs with Legacy BIOS support? How do you know?

[gryffinwings]

Hi guys, trying to figure this out, I've been finding out that a lot of the newer cards are UEFI only, which doesn't work for me, my Dell Precision T3500 doesn't have this. So I am stuck with Legacy BIOS as far as I can tell, and that limits me to what I can get.

So how can you tell a newer card has legacy support.

 

[Arkaign]

That's a T3500 running a GTX 1060, I've also seen one running an XFX 580 (with a PSU upgrade).

The UEFI/Legacy problem seems to predominantly be related to Sapphire and other value brand AMD cards. I have not personally run into any Nvidia card that exhibits this, and I've run some new ones on some pretty old boxes for testing, such as my ROG 1080 Strix on a ~2009 EVGA X58, and my brother still has my old 2700k @ 4.9 on an Asus P68 Pro (board never had real UEFI support, so it's running in Legacy mode only), and he has a 1070 AIB.

 

[gryffinwings]

That's a T3500 running a GTX 1060, I've also seen one running an XFX 580 (with a PSU upgrade).

The UEFI/Legacy problem seems to predominantly be related to Sapphire and other value brand AMD cards. I have not personally run into any Nvidia card that exhibits this, and I've run some new ones on some pretty old boxes for testing, such as my ROG 1080 Strix on a ~2009 EVGA X58, and my brother still has my old 2700k @ 4.9 on an Asus P68 Pro (board never had real UEFI support, so it's running in Legacy mode only), and he has a 1070 AIB.

That computer seems to have a lot of things at the same time and it's not even having any issues, that's awesome.

It's good to know that there are indeed options for new cards, it's just really confusing when you see so many forum posts with legacy bios computers with new cards fail to post and not work. So if I stick with the main brands like Gigabyte, EVGA, ASUS, XFX I should be fine?

So which brands are considered "Value" brands? You mentioned Sapphire, what else?

 

[Arkaign]

Mainly Sapphire and Powercolor come to mind for the cheap R250/260 and RX460/560s I've used over the past couple of years. Their 4xx/5xx have been the ones I've had most weirdness with in older mobos, though no notable problems when used with Ryzen/Devil's Canyon/x79/etc.

 

[vailr]

I've been finding out that a lot of the newer cards are UEFI only

There may be a mis-identification of the real issue involved. Probably fixable by a motherboard bios update, or else related to the "CSM" or "Secure Boot" settings within the motherboard bios.
An actual (PCIe slot) video card that doesn't support a legacy/non-UEFI motherboard bios firmware doesn't seem likely to even exist.
Try re-setting the CMOS.

 

[Arkaign]

There may be a mis-identification of the real issue involved. Probably fixable by a motherboard bios update, or else related to the "CSM" or "Secure Boot" settings within the motherboard bios.
An actual (PCIe slot) video card that doesn't support a legacy/non-UEFI motherboard bios firmware doesn't seem likely to even exist.

It's really bizarre, but I've seen it in person. Eg, HP Z400 that didn't work with Sapphire RX460 2GB, but did work with MSI RX460 4GB, pre-UEFI BIOS (final bios installed, no secure boot options or EFI anything).

It's not widespread, but is common enough to have a number of confusing threads out there.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Yes, the issue is real, and thus far, it seems to be mostly an issues with certain brands of newer AMD cards, that "only" work with UEFI. It can depend on mobo BIOSes as well, as to compatibility.

 

[Spjut]

Googling around, there are various users with Dell Precision T3500 reporting that their new cards are working. Have you already tried a new graphics card? Is the BIOS updated?

IME, the UEFI issue mostly seems to affect the early UEFI motherboards with old BIOSes, I've seen alot of LGA 1155 users have issues. I've even seen users with no BIOS updates available claim that they've bypassed the issue by forcing Legacy BIOS only before inserting the new card.

I don't recall seeing old non-UEFI motherboards having issues with the new graphics cards.

 

[gryffinwings]

Updating the BIOS to A17 was one of the first things I've done. No, I have not tried a new graphics card yet, I'm doing my research before buying one, mainly because I plan on buying used and returning it will likely not be possible.

 

[SPBHM]

on my sandy bridge board, with the original bios (from 2010-2011) when I got a Sapphire r7 370 UEFI only card it didn't work, but updating the bios to one from 2012 fixed it, it's a very basic BIOS AMI EFI or something with no option for UEFI or legacy boot;

I also tried the card with some lga 775 board with a bios from 2008 and it also didn't work,
from what I noticed Sapphire offers the same card for legacy bios support, the one I had stated very clearly on the box that it required UEFI and it looks like it does.

 

[Shmee]

That's a T3500 running a GTX 1060, I've also seen one running an XFX 580 (with a PSU upgrade).

The UEFI/Legacy problem seems to predominantly be related to Sapphire and other value brand AMD cards. I have not personally run into any Nvidia card that exhibits this, and I've run some new ones on some pretty old boxes for testing, such as my ROG 1080 Strix on a ~2009 EVGA X58, and my brother still has my old 2700k @ 4.9 on an Asus P68 Pro (board never had real UEFI support, so it's running in Legacy mode only), and he has a 1070 AIB.

Just to clarify, I don't think Sapphire is a value brand. They generally have the best coolers for the high end AMD cards, IMO they are top notch and I would prefer Sapphire over most other brands such as Gigabyte, XFX, MSI, etc. Even powercolor. Generally I have seen Powercolor and Sapphire do the best job with AMD cards. XFX used to be awesome with double lifetime warranty, not any more.

 

[Starry Guy]

I have run into the UEFI BIOS required on several video cards:
GTX 750 Ti 2GB from PNY in 2016. Had to swap it into a UEFI BIOS motherboard when it was completely undetected in a legacy BIOS board.
GTX 1650 Windforce Gigabyte card just bought new, in a Gigabyte H-55M-S2 board with "Dual BIOS" that is not two different BIOS types (UEFI and legacy), but only a copy of the same or previous version of the same legacy type Award 6. I have no UEFI BIOS motherboard to swap it into. Cannot use the above UEFI board because the back of the video card sticks over all the SATA ports. Cannot run that system with zero disks.
One of these situations is deceptively marketed by those and possibly other companies. They give no on-line or printed information or box label requirement of a UEFI or any other type BIOS version motherboard. Only after purchase of the GTX 750 Ti, failed install and inquiring of support personnel comes the news that any UEFI BIOS motherboard is required.
EDIT:
After much inquiry of the Gigabyte support, found out this morning the the GTX 1650 Windforce from them does not require any special BIOS. Legacy ones like Award 6 works fine. It is running in my 9 year old motherboard. BUT!! That board has only PCIe 2.0 slots. The card will only work up to what it can get from the slot. It is designed for the more modern PCIe 3.0 slot of more modern motherboards. I could spend another $380 for a new board, CPU, and RAM. Then with that, it would work to full capability.
For those with older PCs, who want a better video card, might be a solution for them.

 

[Blazer7]

Just to clarify, I don't think Sapphire is a value brand. They generally have the best coolers for the high end AMD cards, IMO they are top notch and I would prefer Sapphire over most other brands such as Gigabyte, XFX, MSI, etc.

I agree, they are top notch but this is not the point. They too are dropping legacy support on their newer cards like most if not all manufacturers out there. This is the trend right now. Legacy support is dying.

It is only gonna get harder and harder finding new mid/high-end cards for old pcs. Mobos of a certain age, like the one in my sig, will not get another BIOS upgrade and as Starry Guy mentioned there is basically no info from card makers as to whether new cards work with legacy BIOS mobos.

There are many old pcs out there that could use a new card but spending good money on old pcs without sufficient info is too risky.

I would love to see a new thread on the subject where members would list combos of old mobos and new cards that have been tested and work. IMHO a thread like this would deserve a sticky and be of great help to many.

 

[Dribble]

Got an old P68 deluxe with an Asus Radeon 580 in it. Didn't even consider it not working (it works fine).

 

[Bouowmx]

I can use PNY GeForce GTX 1660 Blower on GIGABYTE GA-H55M-UD2H. Curiously, on boot, the graphics card adds an additional "splash screen" listing its name.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

I would love to see a new thread on the subject where members would list combos of old mobos and new cards that have been tested and work. IMHO a thread like this would deserve a sticky and be of great help to many.

Me too.

Rule of thumb is if its pre-Sandy Bridge it will use a legacy BIOS. I think there were a couple of P/H55's with UEFI, but I'm not sure.

I can use PNY GeForce GTX 1660 Blower on GIGABYTE GA-H55M-UD2H. Curiously, on boot, the graphics card adds an additional "splash screen" listing its name.

That's the vBIOS kicking in pre-BIOS. Which means it's a legacy BIOS. So at least that card has legacy BIOS support.

Good info!

 

[Blazer7]

Here is a must watch for Sapphire cards : Special Q+A: Ed from Sapphire on the Pulse RX570 RX580 Graphics Cards

Notable points : @13:00-16:08 old pcs and newer card problems, @19:26-21:07 flashing old cards with BIOS from newer models.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

EDIT:
After much inquiry of the Gigabyte support, found out this morning the the GTX 1650 Windforce from them does not require any special BIOS. Legacy ones like Award 6 works fine. It is running in my 9 year old motherboard. BUT!! That board has only PCIe 2.0 slots. The card will only work up to what it can get from the slot. It is designed for the more modern PCIe 3.0 slot of more modern motherboards. I could spend another $380 for a new board, CPU, and RAM. Then with that, it would work to full capability.
For those with older PCs, who want a better video card, might be a solution for them.

PCIe 3.0 still limits slot power to 75w just like 2.0 and there is no way a 1650 is saturating the 2.0 bus to its limits. Performance should not suffer, and it is good to know there is a 16 series card that works in old systems, so thanks for that info. One of my techs tried a 1650 in a client's old Phenom II X6 system, MSI iirc, and it would not work. Swapped for a GTX 660. Turned out all he plays is Borderlands 1 and some other old stuff, making it a great fit and saving him some cash.

I can use PNY GeForce GTX 1660 Blower on GIGABYTE GA-H55M-UD2H. Curiously, on boot, the graphics card adds an additional "splash screen" listing its name.

BITD that was normal during post on many systems. The vid bios would run first.

I have a Dell Precision T7500 w/ 2xXeon 5667s and it will not play nice with my Vega 56. It has a 1000w 80plus Silver PSU with 1 8 pin and 2 6 pin, but it will not boot using a 6 to 8 pin adapter and the 8 pin. Nor will it boot with its own PSU. Tried all 3 bios I currently have on the card. Tried both PCI-e x 16 2.0 slots. Dell has the firmware update for it from last year addressing Intel security issues, so about to put that on and see how things go. I am hoping they updated the microcode for more than just meltdown and spectre stuff,, but I strongly doubt any other areas were addressed.

Techtuber Timmy Joe could not get his 2080 or 2070 supers to work with a an old 2006-2009 parts list dual Opteron workstation. A 1070ti fired right up. I just picked up a oem GTX 970 for this project from fs/ft because I know it will work out of the gate.

I am going to try a 2060 super in it for giggles, but have low expectations given Timmah! had so much trouble.

Even with the Quadro 600 it has, the 2 games I have tested -Batman Arkham Asylum and Fallout 3 NV are good at 1080p with a mix of med to high settings thanks to the gameplay mechanics not demanding the fps something like Crysis needs. Could serve as a retro gamer as is, but he will want to use it with game pass and newer games.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Well that was unexpected, the 2060S runs flawlessly. CPU bottlenecked looking at the 3DMark benchs. Falls as much as 23 percent behind a Ryzen 2600 stock settings with DDR4 3200 in the physics tests. Still crushes my Dell G7 8750H 1060 6GB maxQ thanks to the much higher GPU scores.

This system is from 2011 so very cool that you can throw a new gen card in it and be up and gaming. Going to fire up some GTA V and Crysis and see how it does1440p 75Hz with adaptive sync is paired with it.

The 970 should be perfect for my friend for now. Free system, $85 card, 128GB SSD 3TB HDD 24GB DDR3 1333 ECC, win10 pro. He can throw a better card in it later. It is running in NUMA and so far no hitching or stuttering either.

 

[Starry Guy]

PCIe 3.0 still limits slot power to 75w just like 2.0 and there is no way a 1650 is saturating the 2.0 bus to its limits. Performance should not suffer, and it is good to know there is a 16 series card that works in old systems, so thanks for that info. One of my techs tried a 1650 in a client's old Phenom II X6 system, MSI iirc, and it would not work. Swapped for a GTX 660. Turned out all he plays is Borderlands 1 and some other old stuff, making it a great fit and saving him some cash.

Starry Guy says: Found the 3 HDMI ports on the GTX 1650 are good to go, but the DisplayPort seems not active. Hope that is not due to the PCIe 2.0 slot limitation. Have to investigate the Nvidia control panel or update a driver (for Win 10).


BITD that was normal during post on many systems. The vid bios would run first.

I have a Dell Precision T7500 w/ 2xXeon 5667s and it will not play nice with my Vega 56. It has a 1000w 80plus Silver PSU with 1 8 pin and 2 6 pin, but it will not boot using a 6 to 8 pin adapter and the 8 pin. Nor will it boot with its own PSU. Tried all 3 bios I currently have on the card. Tried both PCI-e x 16 2.0 slots. Dell has the firmware update for it from last year addressing Intel security issues, so about to put that on and see how things go. I am hoping they updated the microcode for more than just meltdown and spectre stuff,, but I strongly doubt any other areas were addressed.

Techtuber Timmy Joe could not get his 2080 or 2070 supers to work with a an old 2006-2009 parts list dual Opteron workstation. A 1070ti fired right up. I just picked up a oem GTX 970 for this project from fs/ft because I know it will work out of the gate.

I am going to try a 2060 super in it for giggles, but have low expectations given Timmah! had so much trouble.

Even with the Quadro 600 it has, the 2 games I have tested -Batman Arkham Asylum and Fallout 3 NV are good at 1080p with a mix of med to high settings thanks to the gameplay mechanics not demanding the fps something like Crysis needs. Could serve as a retro gamer as is, but he will want to use it with game pass and newer games.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

I am using DP with the 2060Super in slot 2 on this system, which is x16 2.0 and it is working perfectly. The port on your card may be bad. Or like you suggested, a setting or driver issue. No reason DP should fail to work from a technical perspective. Even the old Quadro in this thing had DP and it was from 2013 I think.

 

[VirtualLarry]

Well that was unexpected, the 2060S runs flawlessly. CPU bottlenecked looking at the 3DMark benchs. Falls as much as 23 percent behind a Ryzen 2600 stock settings with DDR4 3200 in the physics tests. Still crushes my Dell G7 8750H 1060 6GB maxQ thanks to the much higher GPU scores.

This system is from 2011 so very cool that you can throw a new gen card in it and be up and gaming. Going to fire up some GTA V and Crysis and see how it does1440p 75Hz with adaptive sync is paired with it.

The 970 should be perfect for my friend for now. Free system, $85 card, 128GB SSD 3TB HDD 24GB DDR3 1333 ECC, win10 pro. He can throw a better card in it later. It is running in NUMA and so far no hitching or stuttering either.

Interesting. Very nice, as well.

I've got a PC with an H81 mobo (1150), that I recently upgraded with a i5-4670K from ebay ($65), have 2x8GB DDR3-1866 (H81 limits me to DDR3-1600), and may be dropping in a GTX 1660 ti (the EVGA model that was $255 from BestBuy on ebay). Have a DVI-D DL cable I got from Newegg for under $10 shipped, and a "Grade B Refurb" Acer 1440P IPS monitor, that I have honestly had some issues with. Wasn't working when I got it, had electronic interference lines, then it was working, then it wasn't, now it's working again, and I pray that it stays that way. Some sort of loose connection or cold solder joint. If I could figure out how to crack this thing open without destroying it, I'd look into fixing it myself.

 

[Golgatha]

I agree, they are top notch but this is not the point. They too are dropping legacy support on their newer cards like most if not all manufacturers out there. This is the trend right now. Legacy support is dying.

It is only gonna get harder and harder finding new mid/high-end cards for old pcs. Mobos of a certain age, like the one in my sig, will not get another BIOS upgrade and as Starry Guy mentioned there is basically no info from card makers as to whether new cards work with legacy BIOS mobos.

There are many old pcs out there that could use a new card but spending good money on old pcs without sufficient info is too risky.

I would love to see a new thread on the subject where members would list combos of old mobos and new cards that have been tested and work. IMHO a thread like this would deserve a sticky and be of great help to many.

I like this idea. I have an old Xeon x3470 system that's (I think) older than yours with a GT 1030 in it. It's definitely not a UEFI system and it's using a modern card. Works great as a HTPC.

 

[Ranulf]

Interesting to see people have issues with some boards and nvidia cards. They seem more stable than AMD's stuff 2014 and up.

 

[Arkaign]

Interesting to see people have issues with some boards and nvidia cards. They seem more stable than AMD's stuff 2014 and up.

AMD's long term driver support is pretty skimpy as well in my experience.

Totally not a big deal for those who don't bother with old hardware, but when you compare how easy it is to run Nvidia 200/400/500/600 series stuff compared to AMD HD 3000/4000/5000/6000 series, it's shocking to see the difference in ease of use and sometimes simply working at all (when running newest available drivers with W10 and newer titles).