Government Welfare State: Creating Dependency

[Incorruptible]

I don't want anyone else's money. I want the government to have the money it needs to serve the citizenry in all the ways we've decided are important: militarily, financially, and otherwise. Those representatives who pursue shared responsibilities that I do not agree with do not get my vote.

You want an oligarchy...or anarchy, and I'm not for either of those.

But hey, thanks for your opinion and for not referring to your fellow citizens as "animals" with derision.

But people on welfare want everyone elses money. Where do you think the money comes from?

I want the government to have the money it needs to operate within the boundaries of the Constitution. That doesnt include taking money from one group of people to give to another in order to get votes. The same applies for giving welfare to illegal immigrants.

Your welcome, I believe in freedom of speech and I will speak out the truth. There is no reason to refer to people as animals unless they actually behave like them.

 

[jackstar7]

But people on welfare want everyone elses money. Where do you think the money comes from?

I want the government to have the money it needs to operate within the boundaries of the Constitution. That doesnt include taking money from one group of people to give to another in order to get votes. The same applies for giving welfare to illegal immigrants.

Your welcome, I believe in freedom of speech and I will speak out the truth. There is no reason to refer to people as animals unless they actually behave like them.

You know they get very little money right? This is a couple years old, but here:

See how much is spent on welfare? It's not even a whole slice. It's lumped into a group.

And heck, not everyone on welfare WANTS anyone's money. Some people just find themselves with no choice other than to take for their kids, to try and preserve some future for them. While I'm certain there are somehow people capable of maintaining pride and ego while on welfare, that's a personality type, and not a stereotype that applies to everyone partaking of government help.

You seem to want to have enemies to fight. I think we have better uses for our resources than worrying about the weakest among our numbers "stealing" from us... unless you want that, and look forward to the rise in violent crime that would follow removing the social safety nets we maintain.

And do you mean the illegal immigrants that still pay taxes? Or the other ones?

 

[Incorruptible]

You know they get very little money right? This is a couple years old, but here:

See how much is spent on welfare? It's not even a whole slice. It's lumped into a group.

And heck, not everyone on welfare WANTS anyone's money. Some people just find themselves with no choice other than to take for their kids, to try and preserve some future for them. While I'm certain there are somehow people capable of maintaining pride and ego while on welfare, that's a personality type, and not a stereotype that applies to everyone partaking of government help.

You seem to want to have enemies to fight. I think we have better uses for our resources than worrying about the weakest among our numbers "stealing" from us... unless you want that, and look forward to the rise in violent crime that would follow removing the social safety nets we maintain.

And do you mean the illegal immigrants that still pay taxes? Or the other ones?

Its still money that is being spent. It should be done by private charity without the use of force and not this way.

Private charity can do a much better job than welfare.

 

[jackstar7]

I wholeheartedly disagree. The amount spent is reasonable for the return.

I understand you do not see the return, but I enjoy being on the prevention side of a violent hellscape.


For one thing, private organizations can discriminate all they like. The government has limits on its discrimination.

 

[child of wonder]

And heck, not everyone on welfare WANTS anyone's money. Some people just find themselves with no choice other than to take for their kids, to try and preserve some future for them. While I'm certain there are somehow people capable of maintaining pride and ego while on welfare, that's a personality type, and not a stereotype that applies to everyone partaking of government help.

People who abuse the system touch too close to home for me. On my dad's side of the family I have 4 people who are "disabled" and living on Social Security disability. My mother in law is actively trying to get on SSI while my sister in law practically celebrated when she got accepted.

In all their cases, they are not "disabled." They go about their lives watching TV, sitting at a computer, Facebooking, going to stores, and so on. They're either depressed, their back hurts, or get headaches. Each is capable of working to some degree but have found it far easier to get on the government dole.

That kind of abuse needs to be addressed and is what upsets many people.

 

[jackstar7]

People who abuse the system touch too close to home for me. On my dad's side of the family I have 4 people who are "disabled" and living on Social Security disability. My mother in law is actively trying to get on SSI while my sister in law practically celebrated when she got accepted.

In all their cases, they are not "disabled." They go about their lives watching TV, sitting at a computer, Facebooking, going to stores, and so on. They're either depressed, their back hurts, or get headaches. Each is capable of working to some degree but have found it far easier to get on the government dole.

That kind of abuse needs to be addressed and is what upsets many people.

So push for more funding for oversight and fraud prevention. Don't talk about wholesale dismantling of the program that suffers from a few abusers (who tend to not get much from it, and when they do, they get caught).

I can imagine there is a lot more tax fraud in this country than there is welfare fraud.

 

[nehalem256]

So push for more funding for oversight and fraud prevention. Don't talk about wholesale dismantling of the program that suffers from a few abusers (who tend to not get much from it, and when they do, they get caught).

I can imagine there is a lot more tax fraud in this country than there is welfare fraud.

The programs are setup to support defacto abuse:

Breaking The Stereotype

Now, Stepp and her kids live in a three-bedroom apartment in the city. She doesn't let her kids play in city parks, because she's worried about crime and broken glass. Her employer, Opportunity House, pays half the rent. It's one of many things her employer does to help her out.

Stepp says her parents also struggled, and they didn't really show her how to apply for a job or to college. She had to figure it out herself. Still, her safety net is pretty broad. Her mother stops by many nights to help put the kids to bed. Stepp also gets food stamps and medical aid for the kids.

After her kids go to sleep, around 10:30 p.m., Stepp has a chance to reflect. She says it bothers her that single mothers sometimes get a bad name, that people think they just have babies and collect welfare. She says she briefly received welfare benefits a few years ago, but not now.

http://www.npr.org/2012/07/11/155103593/to-beat-odds-poor-single-moms-need-wide-safety-net

Nothing that the woman does is technically fraud. But she is a charity case because of her repeatedly bad life choices. And she is a woman that NPR profiled to drum up support for a safety net for single mothers. How much worse are the ones NPR didn't profile?

 

[child of wonder]

So push for more funding for oversight and fraud prevention. Don't talk about wholesale dismantling of the program that suffers from a few abusers (who tend to not get much from it, and when they do, they get caught).

I can imagine there is a lot more tax fraud in this country than there is welfare fraud.

I'm not advocating getting rid of it. I think it needs to be reformed and redefined.

And the abusers do get a good deal from it. My aunt has been on SSI and various other government programs for 40 years. Unfortunately, two of her three children are actively trying to get on the government dole as well.

Government assistance should be a temporary means of empowering people to do more with their lives, not something that is meant to subsist on indefinitely.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

So push for more funding for oversight and fraud prevention. Don't talk about wholesale dismantling of the program that suffers from a few abusers (who tend to not get much from it, and when they do, they get caught).

I can imagine there is a lot more tax fraud in this country than there is welfare fraud.

That's not even on the table. At least in NY they were honest enough to tell us. I don't want to eliminate a safety net, but I do not want 15 or even 1 child brought into this world because Uncle Sam can play daddy. BTW, NY medicaid costs alone are about 60 billion, the federal tab I believe many times that. Why isn't it listed on that graph? Not because it's inconsequential, but it's an unmentionable. SS cuts for people who've contributed? Sure. Expanding Medicaid? HELL YES!

That last bit is "reform".

 

[zephyrprime]

For one thing, private organizations can discriminate all they like. The government has limits on its discrimination.

That's the whole problem with government programs. They NEED to be discriminatory in order to prevent fraud. I don't mean they should discriminate based on race or gender. I mean they need to discriminate based on the character of the person they are dealing. They need to get personal. However, getting personal is precisely what the government is incapable of doing. The government can only function as a big impersonal machine and little people can game the system because of the governments inability to deal with small, personal, individual issues.

 

[jackstar7]

That's the whole problem with government programs. They NEED to be discriminatory in order to prevent fraud. I don't mean they should discriminate based on race or gender. I mean they need to discriminate based on the character of the person they are dealing. They need to get personal. However, getting personal is precisely what the government is incapable of doing. The government can only function as a big impersonal machine and little people can game the system because of the governments inability to deal with small, personal, individual issues.

It's not incapable, but what you're talking about would be expensive. If you want it run better that is going to cost money.

 

[nehalem256]

That's the whole problem with government programs. They NEED to be discriminatory in order to prevent fraud. I don't mean they should discriminate based on race or gender. I mean they need to discriminate based on the character of the person they are dealing. They need to get personal. However, getting personal is precisely what the government is incapable of doing. The government can only function as a big impersonal machine and little people can game the system because of the governments inability to deal with small, personal, individual issues.

Its not as difficult as you make it out to be.

Take the WIC program for example. This program is essentially all moral fraud.

The people who receive are being rewarded by the government for making poor life choices.

 

[IronWing]

I think the Kookaburra song teaches children to be slothful takers instead of industrious producers. This makes me very angry.

 

[OverVolt]

 

[Pr0d1gy]

lol Nice.

 

[Incorruptible]

Why cant the morons who support the programs understand this? Its such a simple concept.

 

[Mursilis]

Why cant the morons who support the programs understand this? Its such a simple concept.

I think they DO understand it, quite well, and appreciate the votes it guarantees. This woman in the OP has 15 kids, with one on the way, apparently. What are the odds any of these kids, when they're 18+, will EVER vote Republican?

 

[IronWing]

I think they DO understand it, quite well, and appreciate the votes it guarantees. This woman in the OP has 15 kids, with one on the way, apparently. What are the odds any of these kids, when they're 18+, will EVER vote Republican at all?

Methinks the asserted dependancy/ partisan voting connection is overrated.

 

[chucky2]

I wouldn't discount it. When you're young and impressionable, plus have all that excitable energy, it doesn't take much to convince a young impressionable person to Rock The Vote to go vote...and, since that young and impressionable person is going to get a bunch of "free" stuff from the highest bidder, they'll likely be only too happy to do it (well, as long as it doesn't interfere with their party and X-box time). Doesn't hurt to at least try, even if they won't vote...

 

[nehalem256]

Methinks the asserted dependancy/ partisan voting connection is overrated.

You might want to rethink that.

 

[jackstar7]

Methinks the asserted dependancy/ partisan voting connection is overrated.

Agreed. If those wanting to change/eliminate these programs had a better idea then they might actually be able to persuade people to that cause rather than just stating how hard they want to take a shit on the people who need help.

 

[jackstar7]

You might want to rethink that.

Correllation continues to not equal causation.

 

[Mursilis]

Methinks the asserted dependency/ partisan voting connection is overrated.

You're probably correct that most of these kids probably won't vote at all when they're older.

 

[Midwayman]

Correllation continues to not equal causation.

Sure, but voting for the hand that feeds you isn't exactly a big jump to make. Just because it isn't 100% causation doesn't mean you can ignore it either.

 

[nehalem256]

Correllation continues to not equal causation.

And that phrase continues to be used by butt-hurt liberals who don't like that reality continues to show their ideology is stupid.