Government Intervenes with naming of child...WTF?

[f95toli]

You need to remember a few things about Iceland that make it very different from most other countries in the world and unique in the western world:
It is a small Island mostly covered by ice, the total population is less than 300 000 and there is only one real city (Reykjavik, the capital).

The country was almost complettely isolated for several hundred years and AFAIK there were almost NO foreigners there until after WWII (the start of the cold war, due to the strategic location between Greenland and Europe). The language has not changed much over the past few hundred years and is very similar to the language that was used in the nordic countries during the viking era. Almost everyone on the Island is related in one way or another.

When the first US army base was established after WWII the soldiers were not allowed to visit Reykjavik and the american radio was not allowed to broadcast from the base.

So yes, Iceland has been very xenophobic but that has largely been due to attempts to preserve what has been an unique culture, a culture which in many ways was DEFINED by being isolated from outside influence.

I do not neccesarily agree with all of this but my point is that I do not think these laws have anything to do with racism, it is just an attempt to protect a culture which is very easily affected because of the small population.

 

[RabidMongoose]

I do not neccesarily agree with all of this but my point is that I do not think these laws have anything to do with racism, it is just an attempt to protect a culture which is very easily affected because of the small population.

This is the reason for their xenophobia and discrimination.

Everyone keeps saying the same thing. Yes, they are trying to preserve their 'culture', language, etc. and believe that immigrants will tear their society apart. Are you willing to be xenophobic, discriminatory, or even racist for this?

If you do not evolve then you will be mired in outdated beliefs - such as xenophobia, discrimination, and racism.

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Originally posted by: Czar
RabidMongoose,
your own words please

I already did.

You were openly supporting the ban of foreign names, all in the name of protecting your language or culture. Protecting your language or culture is admirable, but your means of doing so are not. Read my post again.

My opinion is formed from your statements. As seen in my previous post I commented my view of your posts.

I really think you misunderstood alot of my posts here.

And I'll go over this again.
Sometimes its starnge that foreign names are rejected but the reason is 99% of the case that the name already exists in the list. The pronounciation of the names is exactly the same for example Aaron is pronounced the same as Aron. Elíza is the same as Elísa and so on.

This creates alot of confusion for everyone. For example my name is Elvar, I have a friend whose name is Elfar. Under the current situation one of the names would not be accepted but because they already existed they were both allowed. When pronouncing my name and his it is pronounced like mine is written. Originaly when my friend was christened the priest screwed it up and wrote it down as Elvar and that was the name that was registered as his name. He always thought his name was Elfar untill he was about 15 when he was stopped at a bank when he was depositing something and the teller told him the names didnt match. He then had to get help from his parents to get it changed since they were after all his legal guardians.

As you can see, different letters cause alot of confusion.

as to this quote of mine
"But anyways. If you are an icelandic citizen you are that first and naming your kid with an icelandic name shouldnt be so out of the question?"
When I say "icelandic name" I mean a name from the list like I have said before. Same when I say you are icelandic when you are an icelandic citizen. This is the legal definition and my definition.

And also I have said so many times, it is a fact that if you move to a different culture you adapt, it is not even a matter of choice if you want to adapt or not it is in our nature to socialize with other people. When we do that we adapt to them and they adapt to us.

I would realy like we could start this all over again because I can definetly see that you are prejuced about everything I write now based on what you assume I say and not what I say. Instead of asking further questions about where I stand you automaticly assume where I stand. This is a very common everywhere and only pushes people further away from one another and often leads to pointless conflicts that could easily be avoided. Are you open minded enough to start this again?

 

[f95toli]

Yes, but there is a difference between Iceland and for example Sweden where I live. The total population in Sweden is only about 9 million but that is still almost 30 times the population of Iceland, the city where I live has about twice the population of Iceland.
In Sweden we can easilty "preserve" our culture and still have a relatively large immigration and a large influence from other cultures, in part because if the larger population which means that things changes more slowly (about 20% of the population in Sweden is of "foreign origin"=1st or 2nd generation immigrants) but also because an evolving culture is "normal" for us (just walk around in any Swedish city and you will notice "traces" of German, Scotish, Dutch, English and French influence, just to mention a few).

But, as I wrote above, an evolving culture was NOT normal for Iceland until recently, they were more or less completely isolated from the rest of the world for a long time and when that started to change these laws was put into place in order to try to uphold status quo. Of course it has not worked but they tried.

And another thing, these laws have to be followed by everyone including the people on Iceland and in the Nordic countries, so they are perhaps xenophopic but not racist since the population of Denmark, Sweden, Norway and Iceland belongs to the same ethnic group with more or less the same language and culture.

 

[Czar]

and one more

in iceland there are some people who want to go so far as to have no immigration laws, and allow everyone to immigrate if they want, I am curious, do you agree with them?

 

[CanOWorms]

Originally posted by: f95toli
It is a small Island mostly covered by ice

I thought that was a 'myth' and it actually has large areas of wastelands/desert.

 

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: Czar
I really think you misunderstood alot of my posts here.

I don't think I have. You clearly stated your position, supported it against multiple people that all expressed their disgust of your position, etc. However, if you are willing to take back your words then that would be fine.

And I'll go over this again.
Sometimes its starnge that foreign names are rejected but the reason is 99% of the case that the name already exists in the list. The pronounciation of the names is exactly the same for example Aaron is pronounced the same as Aron. Elíza is the same as Elísa and so on.

Yes, but it also seems as if you believed that it was fine to have foreign names on the banned list. When questioned, you defended it. Why?

Please clarify the following quote, which is the most damaging quote and completely contradicts everything you are saying.

It isnt, when you become an Icelandic citizen you are Icelandic, if you moved here and had a name like Googlygoogl you can keep that but your kids who would be born as fully icelandic citizens have to pick up icelandic names because they are in fact icelandic.

Why are foreign names like Googlygoogl not allowed and why do you support such a law? Googlygool, in this case, is a foreign name and you are supporting a law that would specify that such people cannot name their child with such a foreign name.

Are you now trying to say that you are fine with Jose, but not with Googlygoogl or anyone else of a culture that you are not familiar with? What other foreign names do you dislike so much to have them banned in a similar manner as Googlygoogl? Mohammed? Yao? Jose?

as to this quote of mine
"But anyways. If you are an icelandic citizen you are that first and naming your kid with an icelandic name shouldnt be so out of the question?"
When I say "icelandic name" I mean a name from the list like I have said before. Same when I say you are icelandic when you are an icelandic citizen. This is the legal definition and my definition.

There were barely any names from your 'list'. Was Mohammed on the list? Why are you against Googlygoogl?

And also I have said so many times, it is a fact that if you move to a different culture you adapt, it is not even a matter of choice if you want to adapt or not it is in our nature to socialize with other people. When we do that we adapt to them and they adapt to us.

And forcing people to change their name or abandon a part of their own heritage is not necessary. As you stated, people will adapt. There is no need to discriminate against them.

 

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: f95toli
Yes, but there is a difference between Iceland and for example Sweden where I live. The total population in Sweden is only about 9 million but that is still almost 30 times the population of Iceland, the city where I live has about twice the population of Iceland.

Iceland:
homogeneous mixture of descendants of Norse and Celts 94%, population of foreign origin 6%

I wonder what is considered 'foreign origin'. Poor excuse. Oh no, 6%!

In Sweden we can easilty "preserve" our culture and still have a relatively large immigration and a large influence from other cultures, in part because if the larger population which means that things changes more slowly (about 20% of the population in Sweden is of "foreign origin"=1st or 2nd generation immigrants) but also because an evolving culture is "normal" for us (just walk around in any Swedish city and you will notice "traces" of German, Scotish, Dutch, English and French influence, just to mention a few).

That is good to know that Sweden is not as backwards as Iceland.

But, as I wrote above, an evolving culture was NOT normal for Iceland until recently, they were more or less completely isolated from the rest of the world for a long time and when that started to change these laws was put into place in order to try to uphold status quo. Of course it has not worked but they tried.

Again, we all know about the reasons. Let's acknowledge what these reasons are for..xenophobia, racism, and discrimination.

And another thing, these laws have to be followed by everyone including the people on Iceland and in the Nordic countries, so they are perhaps xenophopic but not racist since the population of Denmark, Sweden, Norway and Iceland belongs to the same ethnic group with more or less the same language and culture.

Fine with me.

 

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: Czar
and one more

in iceland there are some people who want to go so far as to have no immigration laws, and allow everyone to immigrate if they want, I am curious, do you agree with them?

No, I don't necessarily agree with them.

Iceland can have no immigration or open immigration - but if they discriminate or try to eliminate people's heritage, then expect plenty criticism of such an act.

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Originally posted by: Czar
I really think you misunderstood alot of my posts here.

I don't think I have. You clearly stated your position, supported it against multiple people that all expressed their disgust of your position, etc. However, if you are willing to take back your words then that would be fine.

And I'll go over this again.
Sometimes its starnge that foreign names are rejected but the reason is 99% of the case that the name already exists in the list. The pronounciation of the names is exactly the same for example Aaron is pronounced the same as Aron. Elíza is the same as Elísa and so on.

Yes, but it also seems as if you believed that it was fine to have foreign names on the banned list. When questioned, you defended it.

Please clarify the following quote, which is the most damaging quote and completely contradicts everything you are saying.

The foreign names there have an equlievant name in the accepted list.

It isnt, when you become an Icelandic citizen you are Icelandic, if you moved here and had a name like Googlygoogl you can keep that but your kids who would be born as fully icelandic citizens have to pick up icelandic names because they are in fact icelandic.

Why are foreign names like Googlygoogl not allowed and why do you support such a law? Googlygool, in this case, is a foreign name and you are supporting a law that would specify that such people cannot name their child with such a foreign name.

Are you now trying to say that you are fine with Jose, but not with Googlygoogl or anyone else of a culture that you are not familiar with? What other foreign names do you dislike so much to have them banned in a similar manner as Googlygoogl? Mohammed? Yao? Jose?

As standard when you look at the list you can not have Googlygoogl because it isnt on the list, but then you can apply for it. And if it isnt either in the accepted or disalowed list then no one has applied for that name. It is not for me to judge what name gets accepted and what doesnt but by looking at the lists themselves I can only guess that Googlygoogl would be accepted and as long as it is accepted I have no objection to it.

as to this quote of mine
"But anyways. If you are an icelandic citizen you are that first and naming your kid with an icelandic name shouldnt be so out of the question?"
When I say "icelandic name" I mean a name from the list like I have said before. Same when I say you are icelandic when you are an icelandic citizen. This is the legal definition and my definition.

There were barely any names from your 'list'. Was Mohammed on the list? Why are you against Googlygoogl?

See my reply above about why alot of names are not on the lists.

And also I have said so many times, it is a fact that if you move to a different culture you adapt, it is not even a matter of choice if you want to adapt or not it is in our nature to socialize with other people. When we do that we adapt to them and they adapt to us.

And forcing people to change their name or abandon a part of their own heritage is not necessary. As you stated, people will adapt. There is no need to discriminate against them.

If you come from a country where everyone drives on the left side of the road and you move to a country where people drive on the right side, will you argue that the country is discriminating against you?

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

Originally posted by: Czar
and one more

in iceland there are some people who want to go so far as to have no immigration laws, and allow everyone to immigrate if they want, I am curious, do you agree with them?

No, I don't necessarily agree with them.

Iceland can have no immigration or open immigration - but if they discriminate or try to eliminate people's heritage, then expect plenty criticism of such an act.

arent immigration laws discrimatory according to you since its easier for someone from denmark or sweden to immigrate than for someone from for example India?

 

[RabidMongoose]

The foreign names there have an equlievant name in the accepted list.

Please point out Jose's equivalent name on the accepted list. Please point out Mohammed.

As standard when you look at the list you can not have Googlygoogl because it isnt on the list, but then you can apply for it. And if it isnt either in the accepted or disalowed list then no one has applied for that name. It is not for me to judge what name gets accepted and what doesnt but by looking at the lists themselves I can only guess that Googlygoogl would be accepted and as long as it is accepted I have no objection to it.

The problem is that you made a blanket statement - Googlygoogl is simply not allow to have Googlygoogl Jr. because his child will be Icelandic and will have to have an Icelandic name. You were compeltely against Googlygoogl. Now you are backing off of this statement. If you are completely giving up this statement then much would be rectified.

If you come from a country where everyone drives on the left side of the road and you move to a country where people drive on the right side, will you argue that the country is discriminating against you?

No. This is a serious problem that you are infected with. You have the tactics of a typical racist (not that you are one) and you seem to use such logic to defend horrendous acts. Either learn new arguments or learn to convey your words in a better fashion. You basically call people against discrimination racists, say that if nobody complains then it's OK, etc. You go to such extremes.

Let me ask you a question. Are you willing to eliminate all 'foreigners' in Iceland through firing squad to protect your language? That's an equally ridiculous question.

 

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: Czar
arent immigration laws discrimatory according to you since its easier for someone from denmark or sweden to immigrate than for someone from for example India?

Not necessarily - it depends on the specifics. However if it was meant to keep out anyone of a certain origin then expect much criticism.

 

[f95toli]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms

Originally posted by: f95toli
It is a small Island mostly covered by ice

I thought that was a 'myth' and it actually has large areas of wastelands/desert.

Well, I think you are right; I just used the wrong word. as far as I remember most of the island is made up of what I guess you could call "deserts" with the occasional icefields and some large glaciers. But you are right it is not really "ice", but AFAIK almost everyone lives at the coast.
It is a beautiful country but not very hospitable.

 

[LongAce]

These are stupid parents. If their kids grow up with a stupid name, then deserve to be made fun of. They can go home a bitch at the parents for being assholes.

 

[wetcat007]

yeah they dun got a right, but i wouldnt want my name to be that...

 

[CanOWorms]

I wish that most of Europe experienced a massive re-evaluation of their society and culture after WW2 on the level of what happened to the Japanese. I think it could have avoided some of the problems happening now and in the near future.

 

[FelixDeCat]

Europe is stupid. Who cares?

 

[imported_Smithy]

Originally posted by: FelixDeKat
Europe is stupid. Who cares?

"Well played...well played indeeed." Will Ferrell SNL ( James Lipton )

 

[Czar]

Please point out Jose's equivalent name on the accepted list. Please point out Mohammed.

And yet again I have to repeat myself. Names not on the lists are names that have never been applied for. I'm not sure what Jose equivalent name would be but Mohammed would be Múhameð or something along those lines.

The problem is that you made a blanket statement - Googlygoogl is simply not allow to have Googlygoogl Jr. because his child will be Icelandic and will have to have an Icelandic name. You were compeltely against Googlygoogl. Now you are backing off of this statement. If you are completely giving up this statement then much would be rectified.

It isnt, if I have a kid and say to the nurse "hey I want to call him Googlygoogl" and she would probably say something along these lines "no sorry but it is not allowed you have to contact the naming committie".
So to put it in a simple text that is hard to misunderstand
Now = Googlygoogl not allowed
Later = Googlygoogl probably allowed

No. This is a serious problem that you are infected with. You have the tactics of a typical racist (not that you are one) and you seem to use such logic to defend horrendous acts. Either learn new arguments or learn to convey your words in a better fashion. You basically call people against discrimination racists, say that if nobody complains then it's OK, etc. You go to such extremes.

Let me ask you a question. Are you willing to eliminate all 'foreigners' in Iceland through firing squad to protect your language? That's an equally ridiculous question.

Could you answer me this question and not quote some official text, give me your explination, what is racism?

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms
I wish that most of Europe experienced a massive re-evaluation of their society and culture after WW2 on the level of what happened to the Japanese. I think it could have avoided some of the problems happening now and in the near future.

http://encyclopedia.thefreedic...om/Racism%20in%20Japan
here, go play, that is unless you have a specific agenda against europe

 

[RabidMongoose]

It isnt, if I have a kid and say to the nurse "hey I want to call him Googlygoogl" and she would probably say something along these lines "no sorry but it is not allowed you have to contact the naming committie".
So to put it in a simple text that is hard to misunderstand
Now = Googlygoogl not allowed
Later = Googlygoogl probably allowed

So now you have completely backed off of your previous position. See, was it really that hard? All it took was a thread with over 200 posts, multiple people expressing their disgust, you asking if we don't respect your culture, you asking if we are racists, you saying it's OK unless the immigrants say something about it, you saying that all of the immigrants are OK with it, etc.

It isnt, when you become an Icelandic citizen you are Icelandic, if you moved here and had a name like Googlygoogl you can keep that but your kids who would be born as fully icelandic citizens have to pick up icelandic names because they are in fact icelandic.

Thanks for now saying that Googlygoogl can be an Icelandic name.

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: RabidMongoose

It isnt, if I have a kid and say to the nurse "hey I want to call him Googlygoogl" and she would probably say something along these lines "no sorry but it is not allowed you have to contact the naming committie".
So to put it in a simple text that is hard to misunderstand
Now = Googlygoogl not allowed
Later = Googlygoogl probably allowed

So now you have completely backed off of your previous position. See, was it really that hard? All it took was a thread with over 200 posts, multiple people expressing their disgust, you asking if we don't respect your culture, you asking if we are racists, you saying it's OK unless the immigrants say something about it, you saying that all of the immigrants are OK with it, etc.

It isnt, when you become an Icelandic citizen you are Icelandic, if you moved here and had a name like Googlygoogl you can keep that but your kids who would be born as fully icelandic citizens have to pick up icelandic names because they are in fact icelandic.

Thanks for now saying that Googlygoogl can be an Icelandic name.

I'm still saying the same thing. If Googlygoogl immigrates to Iceland and becomes an icelandic citizen he can keep his name no questions asks. But if he has a kid he cant call him Googlygoogl jr because that name is not on the list.

So where do you stand now, do you still think this law is racist? do you still think I am racist?

 

[Doboji]

Originally posted by: Darthvoy
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitem...09/s1209140.htm

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Swedish authorities have turned down a request by two parents to register Superman as a name for their child.

The parents wanted their son to be named after the cartoon superhero because they say he was born with one arm pointing upwards, the position Superman flies in.

The local tax authorities said 'no', arguing the name could lead to the boy being subjected to ridicule in later life.

The ruling has also been upheld by an appeals court.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

My friend once told me that his mom, who is a nurse, had an African American woman who just had a little girl, and the mother decided to name her Chlamydia. He told me that everyone in the hospital tried to convince her to change her name, but the mother said that she liked the name and how it "rolled of the tip of her tongue". People should really think about what they name their child. I also once had a friend name Buster Hymen.

If they were smart they'd just name him Ka-el... make his middle name Krypton.....

-Max

 

[RabidMongoose]

Originally posted by: Czar
I'm still saying the same thing. If Googlygoogl immigrates to Iceland and becomes an icelandic citizen he can keep his name no questions asks. But if he has a kid he cant call him Googlygoogl jr because that name is not on the list.

So where do you stand now, do you still think this law is racist? do you still think I am racist?

Actually all you said in the beginning was that Googlygool would not be able to have Googlygool Jr because Googlygool is not an Icelandic name. Now you are saying that you support having Googlygool name his/her child Googlygool.

Is this law racist? Racist may be too strong, but it is clearly xenophobic if foreign names are on the banned list as you have indicated. Jose, Mohammed, etc. shouldn't have to apply for any names for their children just like Czar doesn't. MonkeyFace or some other name not related to culture or heritage or anything else applying for a name may be more reasonable to have to get approval.

I don't think you're racist, as I have previously clarified. However, I believe that you are xenophobic based on your comments in this thread as well as your comments in prevoius threads. You are too worried about your culture and language.