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Gov. Walker and WI's master plan

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Thump553 said:
You do realize that the governor is trying to ram this bill through on the quick before the public realizes what is happening, don't you? The entire process from introduciton of the bill until when it was scheduled for final vote was slated to be one week until these senators pulled their quorum wrecking move to slow the process down.

Can you imagine if Obama rammed any of his major bills (stimulus, healthcare) through in a week the hysteria that would cause in teabag/GOP circles?
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His platform was to do exactly this and The People elected him. He's simply doing the will of The People and saving the state. Tax Payers want this. So as democrats essentially said "sit down and shut up, the adults are in charge now"." Which is so very fitting considering the dems ran out of the state like children.

I really hope they keep this up, the more national attention this gets the more support it will get across other states.
 
Jaskalas said:
Entitlement society. Notice the debt and deficits? Notice that no one can do anything about it? These protests are exactly why. Attempts to reduce our government spending results in these 'violent' outbursts. That is our society.

It is quite doomed.
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quite reminiscent of what happened in greece recently, no?
 
Genx87 said:
I think we are seeing way too many single parent households. Or parents who view the public school system as a baby sitting service.
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What came first--the chicken or the egg? Did parents view the school system as a daycare service first or did the system "offer" it first? By that, I mean that the school system tries to cover everything -- breakfast, lunch, dinner, so many after school activities, etc. Most programs are good. The after school activities are a good thing but I think get abused as parents use it to occupy their kids until they are done work.

Like Red, I think it is the dual income households that kill it for any single family income or for those that one parent tries to stay at home. House prices ballooned once dual income homes became popular. Now things are so expensive, most families have to have both parents working. I know it is a choice but to keep up with everything, it is just tough to deal with one income.
 
GTaudiophile said:
Anyone here talking about education should watch "Waiting for Superman" immediately.

We need to eliminate the "blob" that soaks up most of the money between tax payers and students. We need to compensate teachers more. But their performance needs to be tested on a yearly basis. If their kids don't learn and don't pass, they get fired. Very simple.
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That film draws some VERY dubious conclusions. The idea that teacher unions are the problem with American education is very interesting when you realize that plenty of other countries with great education systems have an entirely unionized teaching force as well.

(also, charter schools are terrible.)
 
eskimospy said:
That film draws some VERY dubious conclusions. The idea that teacher unions are the problem with American education is very interesting when you realize that plenty of other countries with great education systems have an entirely unionized teaching force as well.

(also, charter schools are terrible.)
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Teacher unions are a big part of the problem, but IMO the actual frickin kids themselves are the problem, they are such shlts these days. Parents, instill good values in your kids you stupid F's.
 
Average Rank Across 4 NAEP Tests
Next to each state is its average rank Virginia....... 16.6
Texas......... 27.3
N. Carolina.. 27.5
Georgia.......36.8
Arkansas.....38.9
S. Carolina...38.9
Arizona........43.3
Alabama......45.5
Louisiana.....47.8
Mississippi...48.6

Out of these 10 states, only one (Virginia) has an average rank above the median, while four are in the bottom 10, and seven are in the bottom 15. These data make it very clear that states without binding teacher contracts are not doing better, and the majority are actually among the lowest performers in the nation.
In contrast, nine of the 10 states with the highest average ranks are high coverage states, including Massachusetts, which has the highest average score on all four tests
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Okay, so explain why states without teacher's unions typically perform the worst, and states with the strongest teacher's unions perform best.
 
Genx87 said:
I think we are seeing way too many single parent households. Or parents who view the public school system as a baby sitting service.
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That mentality starts when the parents drop off their 3 month old baby at the daycare so the dual income home can keep the two incomes
 
zsdersw said:
All of which were arrived at via at-will employment agreements.. not collective bargaining.
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Really? I would be very suprised to find out that they didn't belong to the AFSA or AASA (school administrator's unions) and, while I don't know if they have collectivley bargained in WI I know they have in MI

GTaudiophile said:
Anyone here talking about education should watch "Waiting for Superman" immediately.

We need to eliminate the "blob" that soaks up most of the money between tax payers and students. We need to compensate teachers more. But their performance needs to be tested on a yearly basis. If their kids don't learn and don't pass, they get fired. Very simple.
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I don't think it's fair to hold teachers fully accountable for the learning of a child these days. In many schools the teachers do not decide who gets held back and who doesn't - it's the parents. My wife has had several kids in her Spanish III class that failed Spanish I and II. Obvisously they did not do well in her class. Why should she be held accountable for this? Two of the kids failing showed up for class less than 50% of the time. Is she to be held accountable for these kids not showing up? She offers before and after school help for those that want it. Many kids do not show up for the extra help they need. How is this her fault? What about the kids that choose to not do homework or complete their tests?

Not to mention all the basic babysitter duties she is forced into doing for classroom management that takes away from instructional time
 
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DrPizza said:
Okay, so explain why states without teacher's unions typically perform the worst, and states with the strongest teacher's unions perform best.
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Are you serious? I suggest that you do a little more homework before coming to any highly questionable conclusions.

Edit: Please link your source. Thanks.
 
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DrPizza said:
Okay, so explain why states without teacher's unions typically perform the worst, and states with the strongest teacher's unions perform best.
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Following your logic, California's school system, with one of the strongest teachers union in the country, should be at the top. (It's 49 out of 50).
 
PeshakJang said:
Uh, most actual studies of charter school performance put them light years ahead of public schools... curious to see where you are getting this conclusion from.
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Not sure where you've seen these studies. One, it's difficult to compare charter schools to the public schools due to the problem of cropping - charter schools typically eliminate the problem of having the lowest performing/highest needs students. The majority of their students are taken from the top 75% of public students - is it any wonder that occasionally the overall average of the public students is a little lower after they lose students (but keep their worst students?)
http://epa.sagepub.com/content/24/2/145.abstract

However, instead of comparing overall averages to overall averages, which is an example of comparing apples to oranges, which you seem to be guilty of, or apparently have only seen articles (not real research) which make such types of gross simplification, perhaps you'd want to take a look at comparisons among the same types of students. Nonetheless, your apples to oranges comparison is wrong.

The first national comparison of test scores among children in charter schools and regular public schools shows charter school students often doing worse than comparable students in regular public schools. ...

The data shows fourth graders attending charter schools performing about half a year behind students in other public schools in both reading and math. Put another way, only 25 percent of the fourth graders attending charters were proficient in reading and math, against 30 percent who were proficient in reading, and 32 percent in math, at traditional public schools.
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(NYTimes)

Admittedly, that article is about 6 or 7 years old, but do you really think there's been a complete reversal in such a short span of time?

I believe the Stanford study that compared charter schools to public schools is more recent. It also found that on average, charter schools perform about the same or worse than public schools:
586px-Charter_School_Performance_Study.svg.png

Sigh, this is yet another thread where a large group of people decides to make up their own fantasy facts to support bashing a group of people. 🙁
 
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DrPizza said:
Okay, so explain why states without teacher's unions typically perform the worst, and states with the strongest teacher's unions perform best.
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I added State ranking by median household income to your graph.(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_income)

Virginia....... 16.6...8
Texas......... 27.3...25
N. Carolina.. 27.5...39
Georgia.......36.8...29
Arkansas.....38.9...48
S. Carolina...38.9...42
Arizona........43.3...23
Alabama......45.5...46
Louisiana.....47.8...41
Mississippi...48.6...50

All are in the lower 50% except one...Virginia. How curious is that?
 
Republican senators are receiving threatening calls and e-mails. So much for "civility".

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/260040/be-republican-lawmaker-madison-jay-nordlinger

Hopper says, “I spent two years in the minority, and I came to work every day, even when I didn’t like the bills the majority was passing. I thought it was my job.” The Democrats, he says, “have relinquished their duties. The people sent them here to do a job, and they are refusing to do it. They’re in hiding. They ought to be ashamed of themselves.”

Hopper has received threatening phone calls and e-mails. These are threats of a physical nature. “We are working with law enforcement in my district. They are watching my home and my business.” Other Republicans have had their homes and businesses threatened, too. The unionists have demonstrated outside those homes and businesses.
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OutHouse said:
Funny, the chartet schools in my area have waiting list. They must really suck.
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You will find that most of the 'good' charter schools screen for both good applicants and good parents. ie: they aren't taking the kids that are the problem to begin with.
 
DrPizza said:
Okay, so explain why states without teacher's unions typically perform the worst, and states with the strongest teacher's unions perform best.
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i don't need to see stats that can easily be skewed by the "researcher" who wants to push his point across.

this is how many teachers who are part of a union operate.
work your ass off the first few years, get enough of your kids to pass, get tenure by your 3rd year, coast the next 25 years on your way to a sweet pension with benefits.

it's all about tenure and seniority which is bullshit.
 
Doc Savage Fan said:
I added State ranking by median household income to your graph.(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_income)

Virginia....... 16.6...8
Texas......... 27.3...25
N. Carolina.. 27.5...39
Georgia.......36.8...29
Arkansas.....38.9...48
S. Carolina...38.9...42
Arizona........43.3...23
Alabama......45.5...46
Louisiana.....47.8...41
Mississippi...48.6...50

All are in the lower 50% except one...Virginia. How curious is that?
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Gee, imagine that - states with worse education have a higher percentage of people who can't get good jobs. Very curious.
 
Doc Savage Fan said:
I added State ranking by median household income to your graph.(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_income)

Virginia....... 16.6...8
Texas......... 27.3...25
N. Carolina.. 27.5...39
Georgia.......36.8...29
Arkansas.....38.9...48
S. Carolina...38.9...42
Arizona........43.3...23
Alabama......45.5...46
Louisiana.....47.8...41
Mississippi...48.6...50

All are in the lower 50% except one...Virginia. How curious is that?
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Not at all curious! Why, in fact, I suspect education quality has more to do with wealth than teachers' unions! /gasp
 
DrPizza said:
Gee, imagine that - states with worse education have a higher percentage of people who can't get good jobs. Very curious.
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Hmmm....imagine that...education and "good job" employment are somehow related. Who'd have thunk?

BTW...I thought we were talking about the "correlation" between teachers unions and quality of education....no?

Please provide the link to your data...I have a feeling that this will help us understand where you're coming from.
 
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