Gov. Brown following in Gov. Walkers footsteps

[jhbball]

LOL!

The main purpose of public sector unions is to take taxpayer's money and funnel it to the Democrat Party. Don't think so? Then see how the public sector unions feel about giving up automatic deduction of union dues.

more wisdom from Texas lololol.

 

[woolfe9999]

The government has no leverage against public unions? I think not. Remember what happened to the air traffic controllers during the Reagan administration? The government can still lay off workers based on fiscal reality too. That most certainly is leverage. It is the same leverage that corporations have. Just because the employer is the government doesn't change that.

Arguably the government has more leverage than corporations, not less or even equal. The government makes laws. It can make illegal some things that employees want to bargain for. That is in fact what is being proposed here.

 

[JEDIYoda]

So Gov. Brown has discovered that public employee pensions are out of control in California. He is proposing to have employees contribute more towards retirement and health insurance.

http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2011...seeks-pension-reforms-raising-retirement-age/

Does anyone foresee a recall election? Will the public employee unions stage a sit in at the capitol? Will Governor Brown's name be vilified as was Gov. Walkers?

As with Wisconsin, the Governor realizes that the taxpayer base can only support so much. It will be interesting to see the reaction from this happening in a high profile state with a Democratic governor.

Comprehension is not your strong suit?

Making wild outlandish claims it is, huh??

 

[PokerGuy]

I understand your point, but it isn't valid.
- wolf

If you're going to be able to resolve the budget in the long term you *must* curtail collective bargaining in the public sector, otherwise they will always find a way to force unsustainable benefits. It's not about fixing one specific pension issue or one specific medical benefit issue. The core problem is that in the public sector there isn't a profit motive that keeps a lid on things, so bennies will inevitably go through the roof with the taxpayer picking up the tab.

 

[PokerGuy]

The government has no leverage against public unions? I think not. Remember what happened to the air traffic controllers during the Reagan administration? The government can still lay off workers based on fiscal reality too. That most certainly is leverage. It is the same leverage that corporations have. Just because the employer is the government doesn't change that.

Private employers have profit/loss constraints that govern what they can pay in terms of salaries and benefits. The government does not. It can always raise or print more money. In the private sector, you have unions on the one side, and those picking up the tab (the employer) on the other. If the employer pays too much, it will go out of business in a competitive marketplace. When it comes to the public sector, there is nobody at the bargaining table representing those who pick up the tab: the taxpayer.

That's why public sector salaries and benefits go up at a time when private sector salaries and benefits go down.

 

[sandorski]

Private employers have profit/loss constraints that govern what they can pay in terms of salaries and benefits. The government does not. It can always raise or print more money. In the private sector, you have unions on the one side, and those picking up the tab (the employer) on the other. If the employer pays too much, it will go out of business in a competitive marketplace. When it comes to the public sector, there is nobody at the bargaining table representing those who pick up the tab: the taxpayer.

That's why public sector salaries and benefits go up at a time when private sector salaries and benefits go down.

Everyone knows that differences exist between the Public/Private sectors and most understand what those differences are. What you are failing to do is provide even 1 good reason as to why Unions can exist in 1 and not the other, without resorting to Ideological assumptions and preferences.

 

[Ausm]

Everyone knows that differences exist between the Public/Private sectors and most understand what those differences are. What you are failing to do is provide even 1 good reason as to why Unions can exist in 1 and not the other, without resorting to Ideological assumptions and preferences.

The reason is that the GOP when in power can do their damndest to eliminate them but when they are privately ran like UPS they are screwed and just whine about them.

 

[Howard]

How do these proposed reforms relate to the Walker/Koch bros Legislation that passed in my State which eliminates 98% of the Collective bargaining rights for public employees?

How about you make a thread for that?

 

[Ausm]

How about you make a thread for that?

I'll let you go first and who pissed in your cornflakes this morning?

 

[Craig234]

Yet another thread based on Republicans making up lies about liberals and then arguing against their straw men.

'Liberals are for unlimited wages and benefits for unions!'

'A liberal said to limit wages and benefits for a union! What a hypocrite against the standard I lied about him having!'

In Wisconsin, the strongly anti-union Walker proposed large cuts to the compensation for unions.

In response... the unions agreed to all his cuts.

Oh, that's not the story the OP tells. Then Walker went after collective bargaining rights. THAT they opposed. THAT Gov. Brown has not done.

Another thread of lies.

 

[Howard]

I'll let you go first and who pissed in your cornflakes this morning?

Wait, yes, I am quite irate lol

 

[DCal430]

Let's see, Brown wants to do something that the unions in Wisconsin agreed to do without legislation. He's not trying to remove their First Amendment rights like Walker did in Wisconsin. And yes, what Walker did was anti First Amendment. People are allowed to appoint someone who speaks for them, and making that person speaking for them illegal is a violation of their First Amendment rights.

There is no first amendment right to collective bargin. If their was then federal employees would have collective barganing rights and they don't. Yes most people who work for Obama have no right to strike, and no right to collective barganing.

 

[Pneumothorax]

Not only is that false, it is irrelevant to my point. I was responding to the previous statement that the government has no leverage against employee unions. They most certainly do. That doesn't mean that the government wins every time. If they did, it wouldn't be called bargaining.

I guess you don't live in Cali. The unions win every damn time here. It's not called 'bargaining' when the politicos representing the government in the union negotiations have their campaigns paid by union dues. Majority of the bills in the last 10 years have only served to benefit welfare recipients, public sector unions, and illegal aliens.

 

[MovingTarget]

I guess you don't live in Cali. The unions win every damn time here. It's not called 'bargaining' when the politicos representing the government in the union negotiations have their campaigns paid by union dues.

Nope, I sure don't. That isn't an issue with collective bargaining rights though, but an issue of campaign finance. Ban all corporate and union political donations. We need to rid our public discourse of those corrupting influences.

Majority of the bills in the last 10 years have only served to benefit welfare recipients, public sector unions, and illegal aliens.

That is a matter of opinion. Sometimes democracy and/or representative democracy don't work out in your favor, but that doesn't mean that it isn't working.

 

[Craig234]

I guess you don't live in Cali. The unions win every damn time here. It's not called 'bargaining' when the politicos representing the government in the union negotiations have their campaigns paid by union dues. Majority of the bills in the last 10 years have only served to benefit welfare recipients, public sector unions, and illegal aliens.

You sound like one of the 1/3 of the state making up our Republicans, who are pretty ignorant, spewing hate and paranoia. Guess that's why illegal aliens are rich huh?

I'm pretty tired of the little monsters who support the people causing the real problems and instead try to fight any help for the poor.

 

[fskimospy]

I guess you don't live in Cali. The unions win every damn time here. It's not called 'bargaining' when the politicos representing the government in the union negotiations have their campaigns paid by union dues. Majority of the bills in the last 10 years have only served to benefit welfare recipients, public sector unions, and illegal aliens.

I lived in Cali for 10 years, what you're saying is false.

 

[Theb]

So Gov. Brown has discovered that public employee pensions are out of control in California. He is proposing to have employees contribute more towards retirement and health insurance.

http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2011...seeks-pension-reforms-raising-retirement-age/

Does anyone foresee a recall election? Will the public employee unions stage a sit in at the capitol? Will Governor Brown's name be vilified as was Gov. Walkers?

As with Wisconsin, the Governor realizes that the taxpayer base can only support so much. It will be interesting to see the reaction from this happening in a high profile state with a Democratic governor.

Oregon had to have public employees contribute more towards retirement and health insurance because of shortfalls too. We have a Democrat for Governor. Where's our thread? What makes California so cool?

 

[hal2kilo]

I lived in Cali for 10 years, what you're saying is false.

I remember when I was livining down there in I think maybe 2002 or 2003 the grocery store workers went on strike and got royally f#cT. So, yea this guy is spewing crap. He was not speciifcally talking about public unions, he said " the unions win everytime".

 

[Pneumothorax]

I remember when I was livining down there in I think maybe 2002 or 2003 the grocery store workers went on strike and got royally f#cT. So, yea this guy is spewing crap. He was not speciifcally talking about public unions, he said " the unions win everytime".

Public sector unions. Those guys haven't given anything up other than cheesy furlough Fridays during this recession. They talk about layoffs, but there isn't any TRULY coming. Look at the prison guards deal that jb signed. The states broke and we're still increasing pay for those overpaid pieces of crap that earn extra sneaking in phones for the prisoners including Charles Manson.

 

[alphatarget1]

Public sector unions. Those guys haven't given anything up other than cheesy furlough Fridays during this recession. They talk about layoffs, but there isn't any TRULY coming. Look at the prison guards deal that jb signed. The states broke and we're still increasing pay for those overpaid pieces of crap that earn extra sneaking in phones for the prisoners including Charles Manson.

California is the perfect example of failed liberal governance. There isn't too much one can do to save the state from financial ruins.

I guess you can have all the high-tech industry you want, but the rest of the state economy is being run to the ground due to liberal policies. Plus they have to support their public employees so they can keep voting D.

 

[Craig234]

California is the perfect example of failed liberal governance.

Idiotic. California is doing a lot better than you understand, and the problems we do have come mainly from RIGHT-WING policies - Prop 13, Republican extremism.

In fact, we'll see some improvement now as this is the first year the 1/3 minority veto the Republicans had over the budget is finally lifted - even if voters were sort of tricked.

 

[a777pilot]

more wisdom from Texas lololol.

Yes, I am old and wise.

 

[Lithium381]

So Gov. Brown has discovered that public employee pensions are out of control in California. He is proposing to have employees contribute more towards retirement and health insurance.

http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2011...seeks-pension-reforms-raising-retirement-age/

Does anyone foresee a recall election? Will the public employee unions stage a sit in at the capitol? Will Governor Brown's name be vilified as was Gov. Walkers?

As with Wisconsin, the Governor realizes that the taxpayer base can only support so much. It will be interesting to see the reaction from this happening in a high profile state with a Democratic governor.

HELL YES!!! GO GOV BROWN!!!! I didn't vote for him, but if he does this, he'll be one peg up in my book!

 

[Lithium381]

Private employers have profit/loss constraints that govern what they can pay in terms of salaries and benefits. The government does not. It can always raise or print more money. In the private sector, you have unions on the one side, and those picking up the tab (the employer) on the other. If the employer pays too much, it will go out of business in a competitive marketplace. When it comes to the public sector, there is nobody at the bargaining table representing those who pick up the tab: the taxpayer.

That's why public sector salaries and benefits go up at a time when private sector salaries and benefits go down.

this, this, and more of this.

 

[a777pilot]

Don't for get Ohio. There is a referendum on the ballot, 8 NOV. It's called Issue 2.

If the voters of Ohio vote "yes" on Issue 2, the State's new law to restrict and limit public sector unions in their collective bargaining and restricts public sector unions from striking, would remain in effect.

This could be an interesting vote to watch. Especially after the fight in Wisconsin and the fight brewing in California.