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Gotta love old tech

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Denithor said:
I never said IB is better than SB...just that it's better than the old C2D architecture.

Question - which ran hotter at stock under load - Q6600 or 3570K?
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Dunno about the 3570K, but the Q6600 in my machines runs in the mid 60s at stock speeds under full load. I don't know if that's good or not, but it's well under the 90C max temp for the CPU. I don't have a fancy enclosure or anything, (ventilation is mediocre at best, "silent" fans, etc.) so I'd expect some people would be running cooler.
 
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thelastjuju said:
You've got to realize something.. These "enthusiasts" around here buy these outrageously over-powerful PC's not for functionality, but to express themselves to others, through what they buy.

Thus explaining why inferior pc components would make them feel that others will view them as being inferior as human beings. D:

They are so born and bred to support the "latest and greatest" product being promoted their way, that they actually develop hostility towards older technology as you can see demonstrated in this very thread.
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No. You and the OP support unsubstantiated and dubious claims comparing apples to oranges. I have no problem with older tech. That said, C2D is not really 'old tech' anyway.

Just because you don't understand computing needs doesn't mean everyone else doesn't as well. Keep that in mind.
 
dave_the_nerd said:
Dunno about the 3570K, but the Q6600 in my machines runs in the mid 60s at stock speeds under full load. I don't know if that's good or not, but it's well under the 90C max temp for the CPU. I don't have a fancy enclosure or anything, (ventilation is mediocre at best, "silent" fans, etc.) so I'd expect some people would be running cooler.
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It's normal. Nothing to worry.

With a stock 3770(K) you should be seeing load temps on stock voltage on an aftermarket 120mm heatsink (think similar to the CM Hyper 212+) in the low 50s. Don't quote me on that, though.
 
thelastjuju said:
They are so born and bred to support the "latest and greatest" product being promoted their way, that they actually develop hostility towards older technology as you can see demonstrated in this very thread.
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I am still using my only C2D laptop even though I have a new desktop. I didn't develop any hostility towards how fast it is because it is still relevant for like 60% of what I do daily. I find what you've said is partially untrue as I am in the middle of considering of getting the Raspberry Pi which isn't powerful by any standards but just to satisfy my curiosity of what it is capable.
 
ExarKun333 said:
No. You and the OP support unsubstantiated and dubious claims comparing apples to oranges. I have no problem with older tech. That said, C2D is not really 'old tech' anyway.

Just because you don't understand computing needs doesn't mean everyone else doesn't as well. Keep that in mind.
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No, I do understand computer needs.. which is why I don't understand why anybody would need the type of computing power people like you are insisting on. Unless they are using their computers for very nontraditional, professional grade, NASA-like computing power. Or maybe you guys just enjoy flattering yourselves.

You didn't list an i7 and 32 gigs of ram in your signature just for the hell of it.. you did it because you assembled that rig partly for snob reasons, with the hope that others would envy what you have.. which is why so few people around here can resist boasting about such over-bought builds in their sigs.. you've even decided to tell us what cars you're driving!

Whenever I ask what you people with your overclocked i7's, thousand watt power supplies, and 32gb of ram are actually doing to warrant that type of specs.. you can't ever do it without resorting to some theoretical BS scenario .. and suddenly, you're all professional video editors that need to encode in the background while gaming, or something equally absurd..

dma0991 said:
I am still using my only C2D laptop even though I have a new desktop. I didn't develop any hostility towards how fast it is because it is still relevant for like 60% of what I do daily. I find what you've said is partially untrue as I am in the middle of considering of getting the Raspberry Pi which isn't powerful by any standards but just to satisfy my curiosity of what it is capable.
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The problem I have with the enthusiasts here, is they tend to "look down" on inferior equipment, even when its not really inferior.. its just not currently receiving heavy product promotion from sites like this.

They develop very unrealistic expectations for how much computing power we ALL really need, and allow manufacturers to hike up prices based on how much hype they can generate. They also seem to neglect to realize that the gaps between this generation and the last are smaller than they have ever been before, and that the i5 and i7 chips only beat out last generation's favorite chips (like the q6600's and e8400's) on a select few, poorly optimized games, that don't even LOOK as good as a well-tweaked Crysis from 2007-2008.
 
I have no problems with "old tech" because they are still fascinating and were the stepping stones to today's innovations. I can respect old tech for that and even have nostaglia for some pieces.

But who doesn't like a cooler, more efficient, faster, more functional piece of hardware for the same price as yesterday's cool toy? If you count inflation, we are getting a real deal.
 
For browsing etc c2d is okay but won't go earlier than that. And for hardcore gaming getting the latest and best is wise if your budget permits
 
aaksheytalwar said:
For browsing etc c2d is okay but won't go earlier than that. And for hardcore gaming getting the latest and best is wise if your budget permits
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Even for gaming, especially when talking cpu (vs. GPU), getting the latest is only good if you are more than one generation behind.
 
scrubman said:
Even for gaming, especially when talking cpu (vs. GPU), getting the latest is only good if you are more than one generation behind.
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Even then its a small difference really. There are hundreds of "max settings", 60FPS, 120FPS, and so on. But really if everyone dropped down one setting, like AA or, or shadows, or textures or so just by 1 setting, all of a sudden this card that would "barely work" all of a sudden excels. If you start doing IQ tests on each setting, people would notice that there is barely any difference between all of these settings. Yet people are engrained with the idea that your not experiencing the game correctly if you aren't running at max video settings. People are spending and throwing insane amount of money at maybe a 5% difference in IQ.

I have a new card in my machine, but that's because I built my machine recently, an I like to set it up and forget it for several years. I do this knowing that in 2015 a game will come out that I might have to lower the settings on. Who knows by how much. If its a game I like, and the game looks bad. Maybe I do need to upgrade at that point. But I doubt it. Really the 4870 in my last machine would have been playable in BF3, but probably would have been at settings that where the IQ would have been measurable. Not enough for me to upgrade just for that, but enough.
 
thelastjuju said:
No, I do understand computer needs.. which is why I don't understand why anybody would need the type of computing power people like you are insisting on. Unless they are using their computers for very nontraditional, professional grade, NASA-like computing power. Or maybe you guys just enjoy flattering yourselves.

You didn't list an i7 and 32 gigs of ram in your signature just for the hell of it.. you did it because you assembled that rig partly for snob reasons, with the hope that others would envy what you have.. which is why so few people around here can resist boasting about such over-bought builds in their sigs.. you've even decided to tell us what cars you're driving!

Whenever I ask what you people with your overclocked i7's, thousand watt power supplies, and 32gb of ram are actually doing to warrant that type of specs.. you can't ever do it without resorting to some theoretical BS scenario .. and suddenly, you're all professional video editors that need to encode in the background while gaming, or something equally absurd..




The problem I have with the enthusiasts here, is they tend to "look down" on inferior equipment, even when its not really inferior.. its just not currently receiving heavy product promotion from sites like this.

They develop very unrealistic expectations for how much computing power we ALL really need, and allow manufacturers to hike up prices based on how much hype they can generate. They also seem to neglect to realize that the gaps between this generation and the last are smaller than they have ever been before, and that the i5 and i7 chips only beat out last generation's favorite chips (like the q6600's and e8400's) on a select few, poorly optimized games, that don't even LOOK as good as a well-tweaked Crysis from 2007-2008.
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You realize you are in a forum right? I post in both this and the garage forum. The purpose of the sig is let others know what you have, so if you ask questions or need help, the information is handy. Also, your sig lets others know what you have so they can ask questions if they need do. It happens a lot actually.

My rig is hardly e-peen worthy. There are folks here whose displays or WC loop alone are worth more than my entire system. Not once have I 'boasted' about my rig. I built it because parts like RAM are cheap and I need multiple VMs working for work. Again, you judge others when you know nothing about them. You post in these troll threads and call users out, that is the real issue here. For someone who seems enamored on 'old tech' you would obviously realize that computer parts these days are ridiculously cheap compared to days past like 486, PII, etc.

In my opinion, you have no reason to be on a forum where information and thoughts should be exchanged respectfully. I am sorry if your past experiences are all around jerks who talk-up their machines for no reason, but many people here on AT use their machines for what they built them for.

Done with this thread.
 
Topweasel said:
Even then its a small difference really. There are hundreds of "max settings", 60FPS, 120FPS, and so on. But really if everyone dropped down one setting, like AA or, or shadows, or textures or so just by 1 setting, all of a sudden this card that would "barely work" all of a sudden excels. If you start doing IQ tests on each setting, people would notice that there is barely any difference between all of these settings. Yet people are engrained with the idea that your not experiencing the game correctly if you aren't running at max video settings. People are spending and throwing insane amount of money at maybe a 5% difference in IQ.

I have a new card in my machine, but that's because I built my machine recently, an I like to set it up and forget it for several years. I do this knowing that in 2015 a game will come out that I might have to lower the settings on. Who knows by how much. If its a game I like, and the game looks bad. Maybe I do need to upgrade at that point. But I doubt it. Really the 4870 in my last machine would have been playable in BF3, but probably would have been at settings that where the IQ would have been measurable. Not enough for me to upgrade just for that, but enough.
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Sometimes though... well, when I was playing Painkiller on my old AXP 2500+ @ 3200+, every time I broke a barrel open, the coins that would bounce out would cause my entire rig to stutter. Move to a 3400 S754 totally fixed my issue - I don't think that was a configurable option, either.

My point - when your CPU gets too slow, you can only redeem it so much via OC. Like you said, on the GPU side you can crank it down to 640*480 and have N64 style graphics in most titles and it will work... a CPU that is too slow impacts gameplay.

Like my friends who were ready to throw their Core2 Duo boxes through a window trying to play BF3 64 man maps. Both of them upgraded to SB (2500k and 2600k) and all of sudden things were fine, even though they were paired with a GTS 250 and GTX 260 Core 216, respectively. Not gorgeous, but they can now play competitively. Turning down the graphics simply didn't make that game mode any more playable on those old CPUs. (basically reinforcing your point, I guess 😛)

@ExarKun - I think that when folks have view points like what you quoted, the content can reflect on them as much or more as the point they are attempting to make. It's a jaded viewpoint.
 
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aaksheytalwar said:
For browsing etc c2d is okay but won't go earlier than that. And for hardcore gaming getting the latest and best is wise if your budget permits
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For browsing, you can use a Duron. Please don't underestimate something because it is old. Will you say the same thing about Sandy in two years? Good for browsing? A C2D can easily play many games out there, maybe not perfectly, but old games will be more than fine.
 
I've got an E4400 sitting around. I may turn it into a hackintosh. I was a linux server for a little bit, but I never used it.
 
thelastjuju said:
No, I do understand computer needs.. which is why I don't understand why anybody would need the type of computing power people like you are insisting on. Unless they are using their computers for very nontraditional, professional grade, NASA-like computing power. Or maybe you guys just enjoy flattering yourselves.

You didn't list an i7 and 32 gigs of ram in your signature just for the hell of it.. you did it because you assembled that rig partly for snob reasons, with the hope that others would envy what you have.. which is why so few people around here can resist boasting about such over-bought builds in their sigs.. you've even decided to tell us what cars you're driving!

Whenever I ask what you people with your overclocked i7's, thousand watt power supplies, and 32gb of ram are actually doing to warrant that type of specs.. you can't ever do it without resorting to some theoretical BS scenario .. and suddenly, you're all professional video editors that need to encode in the background while gaming, or something equally absurd..




The problem I have with the enthusiasts here, is they tend to "look down" on inferior equipment, even when its not really inferior.. its just not currently receiving heavy product promotion from sites like this.

They develop very unrealistic expectations for how much computing power we ALL really need, and allow manufacturers to hike up prices based on how much hype they can generate. They also seem to neglect to realize that the gaps between this generation and the last are smaller than they have ever been before, and that the i5 and i7 chips only beat out last generation's favorite chips (like the q6600's and e8400's) on a select few, poorly optimized games, that don't even LOOK as good as a well-tweaked Crysis from 2007-2008.
Click to expand...

This sounds like the most bitter rant ever! I have my stuff posted in my sig, but this is my first desktop that I built in about 7 years, does this make me a snob? I only paid about $1500 total and that's including Windows 7 Pro, but I should've gone with "old tech" why? I mean you're making it sound like people who buy the latest and greatest are all snobs because we want to OC and push our computers, but why should I buy older tech? I bought this new stuff because I actually do 3D modeling and rendering, gaming, video editing, and some sound editing for my DJ roommates. But, we're all just snobbish enthusiasts that don't need that power, right? So what if I want to have my textures in games at the highest settings, I'm a 3D modeler, I like high graphics. Also, I wanted this to last me roughly 3-4 years with some minor upgrades. I say, to each their own. I'm not telling you that you need to upgrade your rig, so what do you care? No one's going around her telling people that their old build is complete shite, so why are you getting your panties in a wad? How about you quit generalizing people and actually post something constructive and not destructive? If you're just butt hurt that you can't afford to upgrade, well tough titties, homie. Other than that, you enjoy your rig and we'll enjoy ours.
 
I don't understand why everyone who thinks they exist outside thelastjuju's definition needs to come on here and defend themselves with 700+ word responses. If his stereotypes don't apply to you THEN HE WASN'T REFERRING TO YOU.

Who is he referring to? Brats who couldn't hit 5 GHz with their 2500k, and were hoping ivy would empower them to do so, even though firefox and call of duty are the most demanding usage scenarios for their system. There are enough people like this on these boards that thelastjuju or anyone can mention them justifiably and with only a few broad descriptors, and the rest of us will still be able to know exactly what he is saying.

I don't see him making any direct indictments so I'm having a hard time understanding why people are coming out of the woodwork to defend themselves against something that was never directed at them in the first place. Guilty conscience much? You should know better, that by buying a system to last you 3+ years you in no way qualify for the thelastjuju's definition of clinically obsessed hardware enthusiast, but that doesn't mean there aren't dozens of individuals on these boards that do qualify and therefore need the criticism.
 
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It's not a direct indictment, that's the point. He's generalizing anyone that has a powerful PC listed in their sig as if they're all boasting. For some odd reason, he thinks that enthusiasts on here are making him or anyone else inferior for having "old tech" when no one on here has done any such thing. People on these forums have fun pushing PCs and showing how high they got it because it's fun. They're not doing it to make others feel inferior. Then he goes on to say that none of us need the PCs for what their power is really useful for when that's definitely not the case. So, no, not a guilty conscience (guilty implies I did something wrong), but more so defending myself and others on this forum after being thrown into his generalization of people with powerful rigs in their sigs and what not.
 
Ok, I'll play devils advocate. You have taken thelastjuju's generalization as "no one needs the hardware they are bragging about." (even though that's not what his post says)

Now let's consider your generalization: "yes we do man! and we aren't bragging!"

If you apply your generalization to everyone on the boards, as you are accusing thelastjuju of doing, your generalization is actually much less accurate overall than his.

No one needs 6 cores and dual GPUs to game at 1080p, but there are plenty of $2k rigs here intended for exactly that. And those are the people he was primarily referring to. They are easy to spot because they usually list their tablets, phones, cars, lunchbox and pajamas in their sig in addition to their PC components. These people need help because they are relying on clock frequency, benchmark scores and brand recognition as the foundation of their personal identities rather than using their skill set and experiences to forge their own.

He was not referring to you, or any of the others who took such unnecessary offense to his passing remark. You guys are suffering from something entirely different, but my prescription remains the same: take a break from yourself.
 
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