Gotta love domestic cars.

[toant103]

Originally posted by: NFS4

Originally posted by: notfred
Whgen was the last time you bought a crankshaft for a Honda for $20

My Camry doesn't NEED to have it's crankshaft replaced HAHAHA


What car, year, and how many miles?

yeb yeb.

 

[CFster]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: CFster

Originally posted by: zCypher
lol, a high end 305 TPI from 1988 firebirds make 240hp and something like 320ft-lbs of torque. And that's a measly 305. Yea I'd say that kicks your honda's ass

and that's from a 15 year old car. Let's see your 15 year old honda make that kind of power.

Not really a heck of a lot of horsepower. Many of the imports with 6 cylinders are making that kind of power - Hondas (Accord V6), Nissans (Maxima, Altima) etc.

And they do it much more efficiently and economically too. And their motors don't weigh half as much as those cast iron boat anchors either. Not to mention being much more reliable too.

wow, you just compared a new v6 to a 15 year old v8. good job.

What's your point? Sure, 15 years ago they made more power yes. Doesn't mean they were more reliable. Quite the opposite actually.

Today, the same is true - but by a narrower margin. Since the Camaro and Firebird has been discontinued due to slumping sales (surprise, surprise), the only vehicles they put small blocks in now are trucks (aside from the Corvette). They realized what boat anchors they are. So I guess now we're comparing the Accords and Maximas to Aleros and Grand Ams right? Are you telling me there is actually a comparison there?

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: CFster

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: CFster

Originally posted by: zCypher
lol, a high end 305 TPI from 1988 firebirds make 240hp and something like 320ft-lbs of torque. And that's a measly 305. Yea I'd say that kicks your honda's ass

and that's from a 15 year old car. Let's see your 15 year old honda make that kind of power.

Not really a heck of a lot of horsepower. Many of the imports with 6 cylinders are making that kind of power - Hondas (Accord V6), Nissans (Maxima, Altima) etc.

And they do it much more efficiently and economically too. And their motors don't weigh half as much as those cast iron boat anchors either. Not to mention being much more reliable too.

wow, you just compared a new v6 to a 15 year old v8. good job.

What's your point? Sure, 15 years ago they made more power yes. Doesn't mean they were more reliable. Quite the opposite actually.

Today, the same is true - but by a narrower margin. Since the Camaro and Firebird has been discontinued due to slumping sales (surprise, surprise), the only vehicles they put small blocks in now are trucks (aside from the Corvette). They realized what boat anchors they are. So I guess now we're comparing the Accords and Maximas to Aleros and Grand Ams right? Are you telling me there is actually a comparison there?

wow, did you completely miss the point or what? the comparison to be made was a 15 year old v6 to a 15 year old v8.

if v8s are so bad then why are they found in just about every luxury flagship except honda's. whose v6 gets absolutely raped in power and torque, and gets marginaly WORSE fuel economy than say, toyota's v8. there goes the efficiency argument.

 

[notfred]

You guys love to argue, don't you?

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: notfred
You guys love to argue, don't you?

arguing on the internet is a pointless waste of time.

woot, 28500, quota for the afternoon reached

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: Talon02
My good old 33 year old American 4 liter inline six has 140000 miles on it with one rebuild, and a complete rebuild costs $300. take the sticker price plus maintenance <$8000 divide by 33, $242 a year, now that is pretty damn efficient for a car making 240 ft/lbs of torque.

Man you hardly drive your car at all. What do you work at home and the shopping center is right next door?!

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: notfred
You guys love to argue, don't you?

You love it just as much as us. Come on admit it.

 

[The Sauce]

Small sample size, I'll admit, but here is my experience. My mom had an '82 Chevy Blazer. Before it hit 65K it had it's third transmission, second carburetor, and a blown head gasket...and was rusting from the inside out. '92 Chrysler LHS, within 2 years had the tranny go, compressor twice, alternator and needed more joint replacements than my grandmother - sold after 3 years due to cost of maintenance being too high. '96 Ford Bronco - now at 45K and as far as I know no problems yet. Every time we buy domestic we swear we won't ever do it again...but hope springs eternal. Otherwise it's been mostly Honda's, Acura's and Toyotas. They may not make 1000 BHP but they are comfy and get you wher you need to go in style without having to visit the shop once a month.

 

[Cfour]

Well damn, my family has owned..

'87 Jeef Cherokee - Ran it until 197k, then swapped a lower 90k motor only because the 197k was burning a quart a week in oil, still runs to the day.
'93 Caddy STS - 123k, prematurely warped rotors a few times, thats about it, runs like a charm
'96 Monte Carlo Z34 - 76k a rat crawled up where the AC condensation drips out and busted some kind of fan when we chopped it up on accident by turning on the fan, but I guess that't not that car's fault
'98 Chevy Blazer - 110k, probably my least favorite because it has some weird rattle in the back where that cargo cover comes across - great in winters though with the 4WD
'00 Grand Am GT - 23k, nothing but perfection so far (I realize its only 23k old )

I don't see how people can call domestics unreliable? These cars have had virtually no problems to peak of. I'm very please with the cars my family has owned over the years, and will continue to buy domestic because I usually get better bang for the buck when I go used.

 

[Cfour]

What's your point? Sure, 15 years ago they made more power yes. Doesn't mean they were more reliable. Quite the opposite actually.

Today, the same is true - but by a narrower margin. Since the Camaro and Firebird has been discontinued due to slumping sales (surprise, surprise), the only vehicles they put small blocks in now are trucks (aside from the Corvette). They realized what boat anchors they are. So I guess now we're comparing the Accords and Maximas to Aleros and Grand Ams right? Are you telling me there is actually a comparison there?

Aleros and Grand Ams are not meant to compete with more expensive Maximas and Accords. That is where the GTP comes in.

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: Cfour
Well damn, my family has owned..

'87 Jeef Cherokee - Ran it until 197k, then swapped a lower 90k motor only because the 197k was burning a quart a week in oil, still runs to the day.
'93 Caddy STS - 123k, prematurely warped rotors a few times, thats about it, runs like a charm
'96 Monte Carlo Z34 - 76k a rat crawled up where the AC condensation drips out and busted some kind of fan when we chopped it up on accident by turning on the fan, but I guess that't not that car's fault
'98 Chevy Blazer - 110k, probably my least favorite because it has some weird rattle in the back where that cargo cover comes across - great in winters though with the 4WD
'00 Grand Am GT - 23k, nothing but perfection so far (I realize its only 23k old )

I don't see how people can call domestics unreliable? These cars have had virtually no problems to peak of. I'm very please with the cars my family has owned over the years, and will continue to buy domestic because I usually get better bang for the buck when I go used.

There are certainly exceptions, we have definately made some good reliable engines...

But that doesen't change the fact that it seems on average, they have a hard time going over 150k miles, while a Honda will purr along to 250+.

 

[PunDogg]

Originally posted by: Phokus
I'm not buying another domestic car until they get some competent engineers

 

[DaiShan]

Originally posted by: notfred
Whgen was the last time you bought a crankshaft for a Honda for $20

When was the last time you HAD to buy one for a Honda?

 

[Cfour]

Originally posted by: Eli

Originally posted by: Cfour
Well damn, my family has owned..

'87 Jeef Cherokee - Ran it until 197k, then swapped a lower 90k motor only because the 197k was burning a quart a week in oil, still runs to the day.
'93 Caddy STS - 123k, prematurely warped rotors a few times, thats about it, runs like a charm
'96 Monte Carlo Z34 - 76k a rat crawled up where the AC condensation drips out and busted some kind of fan when we chopped it up on accident by turning on the fan, but I guess that't not that car's fault
'98 Chevy Blazer - 110k, probably my least favorite because it has some weird rattle in the back where that cargo cover comes across - great in winters though with the 4WD
'00 Grand Am GT - 23k, nothing but perfection so far (I realize its only 23k old )

I don't see how people can call domestics unreliable? These cars have had virtually no problems to peak of. I'm very please with the cars my family has owned over the years, and will continue to buy domestic because I usually get better bang for the buck when I go used.

There are certainly exceptions, we have definately made some good reliable engines...

But that doesen't change the fact that it seems on average, they have a hard time going over 150k miles, while a Honda will purr along to 250+.

I understand that on average in the past, domestic cars would not run as long. But I think they are now there in reliability. But I suppose the new engines are just that, too new, to know for sure how long they'll run. But these cars that we've bought in the Mid 90's are going strong so far.

I think a lot of reasons people have problems with any car is because they don't know how to maintain it. I mean cmon, if you wait 5k or 6k between 3,000 mile oil changes, of course you're going to have problems down the line.

 

[Spoooon]

Family cars:

81 Buick Park Avenue: 210,000 miles, no problems until recently, traded the car in
82 Buick Skylark: around 25,000 miles, go totaled by some old man that hit my mom and took off :|
88 Jeep Cherokee Pioneer: 10,000 miles, fell off a hill on the way to San Antonio, the car was still driveable but got scrapped
89 Jeep Cherokee Laredo: 200,000 miles, no mechanical problems other than eating oil, traded it in
96 GMC Sierra: 1500 miles, my brother totaled it, dumbass
96 Olds Cutlass Supreme: 85,000 miles, transmission died, it used to be a rental car though, so poor driving could have killed it
98 Toyota Avalon: 50,000 miles, no problems
01 GMC Sonoma: still basically brand new and running great
02 Olds Alero: again, brand new and running great
03 GMC Envoy: only 3 months old

 

[NFS4]

Our family experience with domestics:

Domestics:

'87 Chevrolet Silverado -- dual tank switch problem. When one tank ran dry, the switch to kick over to the second tank wouldn't work. Had fixed twice but always blew out again. Left us stranded a few times

'87 Pontiac Sunbird -- my first car; POS!!!:| Catalytic convertor replaced, engine rebuilt, muffler replaced, tranny fixed, plus staying in the shop for many days on end for other various crap. Only had 80,000 miles on it.

'90 Chrysler Fifth Avenue -- CHRYSLER FROM HELL!!! Transmission replaced TWICE. Engine computer/Main computer replaced THREE TIME. Security system fixed FOUR TIMES. Power windows worked whenever THEY wanted too. Car lurched upon stomping on the gas. Automatic trunk closer BROKE. Load-leveling rear suspension BROKE. Only 75,000 miles, mostly highway.

'94 Ford Explorer XLT 4x4 -- no probs

'97 Ford Explorer XLT 2x2 -- no probs

'97 Ford F-150 4x4 -- tranny fixed, 4WD shift replaced (sensor was blown), ABS sensor repaired twice...NEVER fixed completely.


Imports:

'88 Mitsubishi Mighty Max pickup -- no probs whatsoever. My dad fell asleep at the wheel on the way to work one day and ran into a ditch. Not a scratch. Another day, he left the truck parked up at the top of our driveway (slopes STEEPLY into our backyard). It was a 5-speed and he didn't put the parking brake on. That night, it rolled down the driveway about 200 yards and into our back fence. No scratches, no damage.

'95 Toyota Camry -- my current car. 122,000 miles with no problems

'02 Toyota Highlander -- 12,000 miles, no problems.

 

[Bignate603]

I've had domestics and imports in my family, and I prefer domestics.

My car was a 1981 caddilac fleetwood. It's a BIG car and takes alot of power to shove it around but it NEVER had an engine problem. You just changed the oil regularly and it loved you. The transmission was still smooth, it never left me stranded anywhere, and little parts (I replaced the carb once on recommendation of my mechanic because after 20 years and letting the miles rack up, he thought I would get more power and better mileage out of a rebuild then the original one) that I changed were dirt cheap. How could you not respect that?


With that said, I think any car that doesn't have a real defect has it's reliability very dependant on care and driving habits of the driver. If you just change the oil, drive well enough not to abuse your car, and have a mechanic see it once a year for general maintainence you'll save yourself big money and have a car that lasts well over 200k.

 

[LAUST]

Delete

 

[wyvrn]

Every domestic car I've had turned out to be crap. I'll stick with imports and pay the higher costs for a couple of reasons. Total cost of a car counts including repairs, maintenance, and initial cost. Just because a replacement part is cheaper does not mean owning the car will be. The imports I have owned rarely needed replacement parts (excepting the usual tires, breaks, battery, etc.. ), except for Infiniti. I think Nissan's overall quality is lackluster in my experience. I would rather pay a higher price up front for a higher quality, longer-lasting car than pay less up front and basically expect to toss the vehicle away at 100k miles.

I know someone is going to respond to this with "my gm/chevy/ford/lincoln got 258,000 miles and is still running strong, I haven't even replaced the tires!!!!!!" But based on all reviews and data I have seen, domestics' quality sucks compared to imports. It's good that GM is high in initial quality, but I'll hold off on buying one until I know they will last as long as a Honda or Toyota and still cost less.

 

[CFster]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: CFster

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: CFster

Originally posted by: zCypher
lol, a high end 305 TPI from 1988 firebirds make 240hp and something like 320ft-lbs of torque. And that's a measly 305. Yea I'd say that kicks your honda's ass

and that's from a 15 year old car. Let's see your 15 year old honda make that kind of power.

Not really a heck of a lot of horsepower. Many of the imports with 6 cylinders are making that kind of power - Hondas (Accord V6), Nissans (Maxima, Altima) etc.

And they do it much more efficiently and economically too. And their motors don't weigh half as much as those cast iron boat anchors either. Not to mention being much more reliable too.

wow, you just compared a new v6 to a 15 year old v8. good job.

What's your point? Sure, 15 years ago they made more power yes. Doesn't mean they were more reliable. Quite the opposite actually.

Today, the same is true - but by a narrower margin. Since the Camaro and Firebird has been discontinued due to slumping sales (surprise, surprise), the only vehicles they put small blocks in now are trucks (aside from the Corvette). They realized what boat anchors they are. So I guess now we're comparing the Accords and Maximas to Aleros and Grand Ams right? Are you telling me there is actually a comparison there?

wow, did you completely miss the point or what? the comparison to be made was a 15 year old v6 to a 15 year old v8.

if v8s are so bad then why are they found in just about every luxury flagship except honda's. whose v6 gets absolutely raped in power and torque, and gets marginaly WORSE fuel economy than say, toyota's v8. there goes the efficiency argument.

Um, I thought this thread was comparing American reliability vs. the imports.

And don't put the small displacement import V8's in the same category with a small block chevy ok? That's what you're doing. A 4.0 liter Lexus V8 can is not in any way the same thing as the 305 in your Firebird.

 

[CFster]

Getting back to the original topic, I'll put my two cents in.

I work for an automobile fleet wholesaler who sells over 150,000 vehicles per year. Of every make, most of them less than ten years old. Most of the vehicles we deal with are either rentals, lease turn ins, or fleet/program cars. We also get brand new vehicles in frequently. We get everything from Kias to Mercedes. I've been with the company for almost 20 years.

I can tell you that after that period of time I've started to see trends in the industry. Without a doubt, imports are the most reliable. American cars (with Chrysler definately being the worst), were indeed getting better in the early to mid nineties. However, in the past few years it seems they have been going downhill big time. Like I said in a previous post, you would not believe the parts that fall off those things.

 

[LAUST]

Delete

 

[Eli]

Originally posted by: CFster
Getting back to the original topic, I'll put my two cents in.

I work for an automobile fleet wholesaler who sells over 150,000 vehicles per year. Of every make, most of them less than ten years old. Most of the vehicles we deal with are either rentals, lease turn ins, or fleet/program cars. We also get brand new vehicles in frequently. We get everything from Kias to Mercedes. I've been with the company for almost 20 years.

I can tell you that after that period of time I've started to see trends in the industry. Without a doubt, imports are the most reliable. American cars (with Chrysler definately being the worst), were indeed getting better in the early to mid nineties. However, in the past few years it seems they have been going downhill big time. Like I said in a previous post, you would not believe the parts that fall off those things.

How are Kia's on reliability?

 

[toph99]

BMW uses GM trannys

z3
3 and 5 series

not to mention that GM uses the T56 in the f body's and corvettes, which are pretty much bulletproof, and are used in many, many high powered cars(i believe the Aston Martin Vanquish has a version, but with an automatic clutch)

If any of you need proof of domestic reliability, drop by your local PD or transpo station and look at the odometers on the crown vics they have. a lot of the ones here are over 300k km's, and still running. imports are great for what they do, but put any significant amount of power to ANY engine and it will decrease it's life, especially if it isn't well maintained. I'm sorry but if your 90hp civic doesn't last for 200k km's i'd demand a refund.

 

[NFS4]

Originally posted by: toph99
BMW uses GM trannys

z3
3 and 5 series

not to mention that GM uses the T56 in the f body's and corvettes, which are pretty much bulletproof, and are used in many, many high powered cars(i believe the Aston Martin Vanquish has a version, but with an automatic clutch)

If any of you need proof of domestic reliability, drop by your local PD or transpo station and look at the odometers on the crown vics they have. a lot of the ones here are over 300k km's, and still running. imports are great for what they do, but put any significant amount of power to ANY engine and it will decrease it's life, especially if it isn't well maintained. I'm sorry but if your 90hp civic doesn't last for 200k km's i'd demand a refund.

The reason most local police departments and cities use domestic cruiser is b/c:

1) They don't want to have the image of giving their money to "foreign" companies (you go over to european countries and you'll see E-Class taxies). American institutions support domestic manufacturers. What do you think Americans would think of president Bush if he was transported around in Lexus LS430's on presidential business and drove a Toyota Tundra at home in Texas?? Instead he is ridden around in Cadillac Devilles and drives an F-350 at home.

2) Most domestic cars are relatively cheap. Ford pratically gives away Tauruses b/c they are rental car fodder. And with most of today's domestic cars, you don't get the full packages. You may get a bullet-proof drivetrain, but you will DEFINITELY get a sh!tty interior which is full of cheap plastic, huge interior trim panel gaps, and lots of interior flash on plastic parts. Not to mention the rock-hard plastic uses instead of the soft-touch plastics used by many Japanese makers. Sit in a '03 Toyota Corolla LE and it will embarres just about anything the Big-3 puts out.

3) With Japanese cars (especially Honda and Toyota), you get the full package. Reliability, efficiency, excellent quality, excellent interior and great resale value. I can't think of many or ANY domestic sedan that offers that full array of features.