Demon-Xanth
Lifer
- Feb 15, 2000
- 20,551
- 2
- 81
That's assuming that they didn't lock onto your retro encabulator.
Edit:
Computer replaced the turbo encabulator that was on older planes.
That's assuming that they didn't lock onto your retro encabulator.
Edit:
Computer replaced the turbo encabulator that was on older planes.
No. All you need to do is perform the Picard maneuver.
On a serious note, aircraft manufacturers are researching into new forms of exhaust nozzles that give out a much lower IR signature. While it can't be 100% effective, there is some progress being made.
I don't believe they use chaff anymore. I've been told it lost it's effectiveness quickly after the 80s. This is coming from an F/A 18 pilot.
It's kind of like how nobody uses flak-guns like they did in WW2, anymore. It just isn't a viable option.
It's kind of like how nobody uses flak-guns like they did in WW2, anymore. It just isn't a viable option.
Heat seaking missiles dont really have that much fuel, since they arent intended for long range, so you dont have to evade for long. Confusing an IR seeker head supposedly wasnt that hard back in the day, though I'm sure it's a whole lot harder now.
I don't believe that, but even if it's true, there's not many fighter pilots flying with lit cigars behind their oxygen masks.
Demon-Xanth
Lifer
- Feb 15, 2000
- 20,551
- 2
- 81
It _USED_ to be that you could fly into the sun and it'd get blinded. Hell, it used to be that they flat out failed to lock on in the first place, the F4 pilots would fire off three at a time to try to get one to go for thier target. Like all things, they improved.
There is no way that is possible, he's joking...
There is 10000x the heat coming off the jet than the cig.
Even if the missile can be tricked into thinking the explosion is your plane you're usually several thousand feet in the air. At these altitudes the explosion on the ground will not be intense enough to divert the missile. Even if you try to dive down closer to the ground you won't have much time as it's usually only a few seconds for the missile to catch up to your plane.
If you're loaded down with bombs, missiles and fuel then it would be wise to jettison the fuel for more maneuverability.
Okay first of all the movie was obviously unrealistic.
Anyway the type of IR missiles today that American pilots have to worry about can actually be evaded easily (unless the pilot is flying close to the deck and does not have room or time to perform counter measures). Flares and Chaff are for the same thing noise makers are on a submarine. IR missiles (ours maybe, but not not other countires) do not lock onto a specific heat signature, and technically if it was close enough it could lock onto the fuel tanks, but they are not really hot enough compared to the engines. Most IR missiles are fired and then do they find a heat signature, they are meant to be fire and forget. But more realistically the fuel tanks were jetsioned because they hold back the ability of the pilot to perform faster, and also limit the G's they are allowed to pull. Most of the time they would rarely drop their bombs also unless the mission has already been aborted or if they are over the ocean to be recovered later. They would not do it over enemy territory (not that they would explode, it is for security reasons). Hence why most modern fighters are carrying their payload inside bays, that and to reduce radar signature.
Anyway pilots are taught to evade the missiles and a sudden abrupt movement at the last second will cause it to fly by. Whoever said that missiles have better maneuvebility than a jet is full of ****** because while they are lighter, they carry less fuel and their fins are smaller and can only change direction a few degrees or so in the last few seconds. So if the pilot changes direction quickly the missile will not be able to relay the coordinates back to its nav system quick enough, nor will the laws of physics allow something that fast to change direction so quickly. Once it passes by the pilot is good, and most missiles are then automatically detonated after they have lost track of a heat signature, so they can hopefully cause damage by fragmentation. Most pilots will try to catch the missile head on if they have time and perform counter manuevurs based on their VID. Also most missiles cannot withstand the G's a jet can and will break apart if the pilot goes into a high G spin, especially if they are pulling neg G's.
IR missiles are easy to evade, it is radar SAMS that they are worried about, because then only electronic jammers and very high G turns can help them then. Not to mention a radar SAM has a much higer ceiling than an IR SAM, around 20,000 feet higher IIRC.
How do I know all this...well if I told you I would then have to kill you.
Anyway the type of IR missiles today that American pilots have to worry about can actually be evaded easily (unless the pilot is flying close to the deck and does not have room or time to perform counter measures). Flares and Chaff are for the same thing noise makers are on a submarine. IR missiles (ours maybe, but not not other countires) do not lock onto a specific heat signature, and technically if it was close enough it could lock onto the fuel tanks, but they are not really hot enough compared to the engines. Most IR missiles are fired and then do they find a heat signature, they are meant to be fire and forget. But more realistically the fuel tanks were jetsioned because they hold back the ability of the pilot to perform faster, and also limit the G's they are allowed to pull. Most of the time they would rarely drop their bombs also unless the mission has already been aborted or if they are over the ocean to be recovered later. They would not do it over enemy territory (not that they would explode, it is for security reasons). Hence why most modern fighters are carrying their payload inside bays, that and to reduce radar signature.
Anyway pilots are taught to evade the missiles and a sudden abrupt movement at the last second will cause it to fly by. Whoever said that missiles have better maneuvebility than a jet is full of ****** because while they are lighter, they carry less fuel and their fins are smaller and can only change direction a few degrees or so in the last few seconds. So if the pilot changes direction quickly the missile will not be able to relay the coordinates back to its nav system quick enough, nor will the laws of physics allow something that fast to change direction so quickly. Once it passes by the pilot is good, and most missiles are then automatically detonated after they have lost track of a heat signature, so they can hopefully cause damage by fragmentation. Most pilots will try to catch the missile head on if they have time and perform counter manuevurs based on their VID. Also most missiles cannot withstand the G's a jet can and will break apart if the pilot goes into a high G spin, especially if they are pulling neg G's.
IR missiles are easy to evade, it is radar SAMS that they are worried about, because then only electronic jammers and very high G turns can help them then. Not to mention a radar SAM has a much higer ceiling than an IR SAM, around 20,000 feet higher IIRC.
How do I know all this...well if I told you I would then have to kill you.
It would not go after the sun, most IR missules are fired in close proximity, the sun would not be hotter than a jet at that range. Some of the more advanced missiles might track specific wave lengths, but the early ones (and shoulder fired ones) the ones used in iraq and Afghan. today track the intensity not the type. Once fired in that direction it finds the target.
The missiles linked to previously are not your conventional IR missile. They may use IR once they are in the air, but are by no means fire and forget missiles.
Originally posted by: SVT Cobra
Okay first of all the movie was obviously unrealistic.
Anyway the type of IR missiles today that American pilots have to worry about can actually be evaded easily (unless the pilot is flying close to the deck and does not have room or time to perform counter measures). Flares and Chaff are for the same thing noise makers are on a submarine. IR missiles (ours maybe, but not not other countires) do not lock onto a specific heat signature, and technically if it was close enough it could lock onto the fuel tanks, but they are not really hot enough compared to the engines. Most IR missiles are fired and then do they find a heat signature, they are meant to be fire and forget. But more realistically the fuel tanks were jetsioned because they hold back the ability of the pilot to perform faster, and also limit the G's they are allowed to pull. Most of the time they would rarely drop their bombs also unless the mission has already been aborted or if they are over the ocean to be recovered later. They would not do it over enemy territory (not that they would explode, it is for security reasons). Hence why most modern fighters are carrying their payload inside bays, that and to reduce radar signature.
Anyway pilots are taught to evade the missiles and a sudden abrupt movement at the last second will cause it to fly by. Whoever said that missiles have better maneuvebility than a jet is full of ****** because while they are lighter, they carry less fuel and their fins are smaller and can only change direction a few degrees or so in the last few seconds. So if the pilot changes direction quickly the missile will not be able to relay the coordinates back to its nav system quick enough, nor will the laws of physics allow something that fast to change direction so quickly. Once it passes by the pilot is good, and most missiles are then automatically detonated after they have lost track of a heat signature, so they can hopefully cause damage by fragmentation. Most pilots will try to catch the missile head on if they have time and perform counter manuevurs based on their VID. Also most missiles cannot withstand the G's a jet can and will break apart if the pilot goes into a high G spin, especially if they are pulling neg G's.
IR missiles are easy to evade, it is radar SAMS that they are worried about, because then only electronic jammers and very high G turns can help them then. Not to mention a radar SAM has a much higer ceiling than an IR SAM, around 20,000 feet higher IIRC.
How do I know all this...well if I told you I would then have to kill you.
I agree that a modern fighter jet can out maneuver most missiles but a missile can pull way more G's than a plane can. Even the extremely maneuverable F-16 can pull 8-9 G's max while even the early versions of the AIM-9 missiles can do 12 G's or more.
Originally posted by: jtvang125
Originally posted by: SVT Cobra
Okay first of all the movie was obviously unrealistic.
Anyway the type of IR missiles today that American pilots have to worry about can actually be evaded easily (unless the pilot is flying close to the deck and does not have room or time to perform counter measures). Flares and Chaff are for the same thing noise makers are on a submarine. IR missiles (ours maybe, but not not other countires) do not lock onto a specific heat signature, and technically if it was close enough it could lock onto the fuel tanks, but they are not really hot enough compared to the engines. Most IR missiles are fired and then do they find a heat signature, they are meant to be fire and forget. But more realistically the fuel tanks were jetsioned because they hold back the ability of the pilot to perform faster, and also limit the G's they are allowed to pull. Most of the time they would rarely drop their bombs also unless the mission has already been aborted or if they are over the ocean to be recovered later. They would not do it over enemy territory (not that they would explode, it is for security reasons). Hence why most modern fighters are carrying their payload inside bays, that and to reduce radar signature.
Anyway pilots are taught to evade the missiles and a sudden abrupt movement at the last second will cause it to fly by. Whoever said that missiles have better maneuvebility than a jet is full of ****** because while they are lighter, they carry less fuel and their fins are smaller and can only change direction a few degrees or so in the last few seconds. So if the pilot changes direction quickly the missile will not be able to relay the coordinates back to its nav system quick enough, nor will the laws of physics allow something that fast to change direction so quickly. Once it passes by the pilot is good, and most missiles are then automatically detonated after they have lost track of a heat signature, so they can hopefully cause damage by fragmentation. Most pilots will try to catch the missile head on if they have time and perform counter manuevurs based on their VID. Also most missiles cannot withstand the G's a jet can and will break apart if the pilot goes into a high G spin, especially if they are pulling neg G's.
IR missiles are easy to evade, it is radar SAMS that they are worried about, because then only electronic jammers and very high G turns can help them then. Not to mention a radar SAM has a much higer ceiling than an IR SAM, around 20,000 feet higher IIRC.
How do I know all this...well if I told you I would then have to kill you.
I agree that a modern fighter jet can out maneuver most missiles but a missile can pull way more G's than a plane can. Even the extremely maneuverable F-16 can pull 8-9 G's max while even the early versions of the AIM-9 missiles can do 12 G's or more.
In testing with a perfect missile. Many reports during the Gulf War of missile dodging indicated the missile started breaking up if forced to undergo high G's. The missile itself? No, but bad care and deterioration from sitting around so long.
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