Got Gas? U.S. Economy to Worsen as Gas Prices Skyrocket

[Engineer]

Of course but US average purchasing power is not lower than
its european counterparts.

American's shouldn't just sit back and say "Oh, look how much better we have it than Europe on gas" when our prices have, in some cases, increased by 8X in just over 12 years. US wages stagnant and prices of gasoline and everything gas touches (i.e. anything transported) have strained budgets as well as the economy of the US. Also, public transportation systems in Europe funded by those high taxes are much better than the US (possibly because of logistics) giving Europe an advantage and negating some of the higher prices of gasoline, especially among the nations poor.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Did they even make premium when it was $0.28? I thought it was "Leaded" only then?

As for price, it was as low as $0.49 per gallon regular in the late 90's (97 or 98). Oil bottomed at $10.25 per barrel.

Yes, they had premium in the early 70's.

 

[monovillage]

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/06/b...california-have-drivers-scrambling.html?_r=2&

“California requires a specific blend of gasoline that only the refineries on the West Coast make,” said Bill Day, a spokesman for Valero. “So when there is a shortage of that blend, you can’t just send supplies from somewhere else.”

Gasoline prices largely depend on the price of crude oil. Global oil prices have eased somewhat since the beginning of the year, despite turmoil in the Middle East and sanctions on Iran. The easing is attributed to slowing economic activity around the world and increased supplies coming from several countries including Iraq, Libya, Saudi Arabia and the United States.

 

[Ryan]

There's a reason the California market is the largest when it comes to Volt/electric vehicle sales.

<- As a Volt owner, it cost me less than a buck to drive 40 miles. I haven't filled up my tank in two months.

 

[buckshot24]

There's a reason the California market is the largest when it comes to Volt/electric vehicle sales.

<- As a Volt owner, it cost me less than a buck to drive 40 miles. I haven't filled up my tank in two months.

I think that is the goal, keep prices of old energy high so new energy (electric isn't new but it is for cars) seems more attractive.

 

[Engineer]

I think that is the goal, keep prices of old energy high so new energy (electric isn't new but it is for cars) seems more attractive.

If the US economy can survive during that transition (higher prices), I'm for it if it means that the oil producers of the middle east and the likes can suck it with their oil.

 

[Northern Lawn]

Not worried about it, people and car makers will adapt.

When gas prices hit nearly $5/gallon a few years ago people started dumping SUVs and actually planned their routes.

Plus, cars generally now have higher MPGs to offset the higher fuel price. Look at all the mainstream models of late, more and more of them are offering 4bangers, sometimes with a turbo. Take the Sonata for example, they don't even offer a V-6 anymore. Look at the A4, A5, TT, the only engine available now is the 2.0T, the 3.2 V6 is pretty much obsolete. Car companies are moving to smaller and more efficient engines.

Europe is also a good example, especially in the UK, 90 percent of their cars are diesel at 40mpg+. So even at the astronomical oil price they have, the overall cost of operation is still comparable to the U.S.

ANd that is why gas prices will always go up.

We had the same problem with water in our city. City told us to cut back on water, so many people cut back that there was no revenue for the water works dept. so they raised the price of the water.

 

[redgtxdi]

There's a reason the California market is the largest when it comes to Volt/electric vehicle sales.

<- As a Volt owner, it cost me less than a buck to drive 40 miles. I haven't filled up my tank in two months.

Of course, even with the subsidies, there's still that monumental premium to overcome for a comparably sized car otherwise.

Plus everything else we've argued about prior in EV, hybrid, alternates game.......the transition will be slow and painful for sure as petrol is quite the drug!

 

[Londo_Jowo]

Before the complete change to electric cars can occur the electrical infrastructure will need to upgraded and power production capacity increased

 

[randomrogue]

The gas mileage of US cars seems to be lower than every equivalent car in Europe.

Pick any car and google the difference. Use the liter/100km calculator to make it easier to figure out.

Still more expensive though.

 

[randomrogue]

The electric or hybrid car in California is largely a joke since you would have to own the car for over 10 years to break even on the cost difference.

 

[chucky2]

The gas mileage of US cars seems to be lower than every equivalent car in Europe.

Pick any car and google the difference. Use the liter/100km calculator to make it easier to figure out.

Still more expensive though.

That's because you have to factor in the NEDC rather than EPA testing cycles. Rough rule of thumb is to take their number, and multiply by .25. Then you have to factor in they get great Clean Diesel selection, thanks to CA, we get F'd.

Oh well...

Chuck

 

[randomrogue]

Ah interesting. Lots of diesel cars here. The newer cars also "turn off" at stop lights and instantly turn on again when you hit the accelerator.

 

[DCal430]

There's a reason the California market is the largest when it comes to Volt/electric vehicle sales.

<- As a Volt owner, it cost me less than a buck to drive 40 miles. I haven't filled up my tank in two months.

How are you liking the volt so far?

 

[Doppel]

The electric or hybrid car in California is largely a joke since you would have to own the car for over 10 years to break even on the cost difference.

It was that way, but less now over time, and as the tech gets cheaper and gas goes up the math changes.

Lately there have been fantastic prices on Leafs and pretty good on Volts that change the math hugely, bringing the pay back way less than 10. In fact in the past month it's been possible to lease a Leaf for cheaper, after considering cost of fuel, than a corolla/civic type car, and it is bigger than they are with a nav system, heated seats, etc.

 

[Ryan]

Of course, even with the subsidies, there's still that monumental premium to overcome for a comparably sized car otherwise.

Plus everything else we've argued about prior in EV, hybrid, alternates game.......the transition will be slow and painful for sure as petrol is quite the drug!

Monumental? $33K is not monumental by any stretch of the imagination. People spend more than that on Honda Accords and Hyundai Sonatas for crying out loud.

The electric or hybrid car in California is largely a joke since you would have to own the car for over 10 years to break even on the cost difference.

Break even compared to what? The Volt is available for around $33K after subsidies (and it can even be in the mid-$20's in some states that heavily subsidize electric cars).

The average selling price of a new car in the US is roughly $31K - http://www.autoblog.com/2012/04/11/average-price-of-new-cars-hits-all-time-record/

 

[Ryan]

How are you liking the volt so far?

It's a good car - it functions perfectly and is built well. It have no real complains so far (I do miss rowing my own gears though, but that's another topic...lol).

Of the 7k miles I have put on it, 5K have been total electric (damned 1.5K road trip threw my stats off, lol ).

 

[dmcowen674]

Before the complete change to electric cars can occur the electrical infrastructure will need to upgraded and power production capacity increased

As usual this incompetent oil thug is full of lies and wrong information:

http://science.howstuffworks.com/en...wer-grid-charge-millions-of-electric-cars.htm

Can the Power Grid Charge Millions of Electric Cars?



As the power grid stands right now, it can already handle millions of electric vehicles without bringing any further power plants online.

 

[werepossum]

As usual this incompetent oil thug is full of lies and wrong information:

http://science.howstuffworks.com/en...wer-grid-charge-millions-of-electric-cars.htm

Can the Power Grid Charge Millions of Electric Cars?



As the power grid stands right now, it can already handle millions of electric vehicles without bringing any further power plants online.

Yes and no. Our basic infrastructure is certainly sound, as the vast majority of electric cars will be charged at night when demand is low. However, in hot climates and seasons, many parts of the grid serving exclusively residential areas will be fairly near capacity with A/C units running. Unless battery charging is scheduled for late night when most other loads are off, there may well be areas which must be upgraded. If battery charging takes four hours and comes with a load scheduler, and people use reasonable assumptions, we should be fine. If battery charging takes eight hours and/or people start charging when they get home, we will have problems.

Another problem is with hydro. Near-bottom water is used for generation because of its pressure, but it's COLD. Running that cold water all night long is going to play hell with riverine ecosystems, and many reservoir systems may simply not have enough water to generate all day and all night.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

As usual this incompetent oil thug is full of lies and wrong information:

http://science.howstuffworks.com/en...wer-grid-charge-millions-of-electric-cars.htm

Can the Power Grid Charge Millions of Electric Cars?



As the power grid stands right now, it can already handle millions of electric vehicles without bringing any further power plants online.

So the power companies requesting people to reduce air conditioning/heating and major power consumption equipment during peak hours (afternoon/evening) are magically going to be able to handle all this extra demand?

 

[dmcowen674]

Nothing ever comes from "Congressional Investigations" but here you go again:

10-8-2012

http://news.yahoo.com/more-pain-pump-calif-gas-prices-rise-again-164938375--finance.html

More pain at pump as Calif. gas prices rise again



A station in Long Beach south of Los Angeles had California's priciest gas at $6.65 for a gallon of regular, according to GasBuddy.com.


The statewide average price for a gallon of regular gasoline in California rose to an all-time high Monday, the third record-setting day in a row that is prompting calls for a federal investigation into the price spike.


The average price in the state hit $4.668, according to AAA. Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., called on the Federal Trade Commission to investigate, saying residents need to be protected from "malicious trading schemes."

Feinstein in her letter Sunday asked the FTC to determine if the price spike was caused by illegal manipulation of the market and to start monitoring the market for fraud, manipulation, or other malicious trading practices.
"Publically available data appears to confirm that market fundamentals are not to blame for rising gas prices in California," she wrote.


Despite a pipeline and refinery shutdown, she said, state data shows gas production last week was "almost as high as a year ago, and stockpiles of gasoline and blending components combined were equal to this time last year," she said.

Gov. Jerry Brown on Sunday ordered state smog regulators to allow winter-blend gasoline to be sold in California earlier than usual to bring down prices.

 

[Londo_Jowo]

LMAO!!!! Doesn't Governor Brown realize the refineries need to have short shutdown to change the process to a different blend gas?

 

[DucatiMonster696]

Nothing ever comes from "Congressional Investigations" but here you go again:

10-8-2012

http://news.yahoo.com/more-pain-pump-calif-gas-prices-rise-again-164938375--finance.html

More pain at pump as Calif. gas prices rise again



A station in Long Beach south of Los Angeles had California's priciest gas at $6.65 for a gallon of regular, according to GasBuddy.com.


The statewide average price for a gallon of regular gasoline in California rose to an all-time high Monday, the third record-setting day in a row that is prompting calls for a federal investigation into the price spike.


The average price in the state hit $4.668, according to AAA. Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., called on the Federal Trade Commission to investigate, saying residents need to be protected from "malicious trading schemes."

Feinstein in her letter Sunday asked the FTC to determine if the price spike was caused by illegal manipulation of the market and to start monitoring the market for fraud, manipulation, or other malicious trading practices.
"Publically available data appears to confirm that market fundamentals are not to blame for rising gas prices in California," she wrote.


Despite a pipeline and refinery shutdown, she said, state data shows gas production last week was "almost as high as a year ago, and stockpiles of gasoline and blending components combined were equal to this time last year," she said.

Gov. Jerry Brown on Sunday ordered state smog regulators to allow winter-blend gasoline to be sold in California earlier than usual to bring down prices.

Nothing comes of it because the consequences are the results of politicians and the electorate ignoring economic fundamental principles and the realities their actions create which stand firm in the light of good intentions but fail over the long term. Thus the only villains are those who ignore what occurs when government meddles in markets and paints itself into a corner.

Edit: The number of refineries in California since 1980-2012. Notice the trend and now apply the knowledge of just how closed off the market is for CA's special blend of gas that no other state in the US uses and then you realize just how sensitive our state's closed gasoline market is to supply disruptions.

http://www.eia.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=8_NA_8O0_SCA_C&f=A

 

[Doppel]

As usual this incompetent oil thug is full of lies and wrong information:

http://science.howstuffworks.com/en...wer-grid-charge-millions-of-electric-cars.htm

Can the Power Grid Charge Millions of Electric Cars?



As the power grid stands right now, it can already handle millions of electric vehicles without bringing any further power plants online.

Do you know why everyone here treats you like an asshole? Because you are one. There is a nice way to talk to people and you never, ever opt for it.

 

[werepossum]

LMAO!!!! Doesn't Governor Brown realize the refineries need to have short shutdown to change the process to a different blend gas?

He realizes it, but that doesn't end his need to blame someone else. Otherwise voters will begin to blame him and Obama for high gas prices.