Got Faith?

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Madwand1

Diamond Member
Jan 23, 2006
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Originally posted by: miketheidiot
Looking around the world, it seems that the odds are that everyone is wrong. Ever seen the episode of family guy were they die, and when they reach the pearly gates, find out that the Mormons had it right?

A problem, in my view, is the assumption of strong mutual exclusivity. I believe that the atheists are somewhat right, and that the evangelists are somewhat right, although they have pretty much exactly opposite positions, and of course the ways that I think they're right are different from the ways that they think that they are right. Part of the problem in my view, is the attitude of exclusivity itself -- that there is one bizarre answer that is entirely right, and that all the others are entirely wrong. So let's pick some sort of probabilistic procedure which gives us a good chance of a good outcome, and whereby we don't really need to understand and appreciate the one bizarre answer that happens to be right, nor account for the resonances of truth that arise from other points of view.

It is thinking of exclusivity in my view that leads one to accept notions, unquestioningly, that others find bizarre and offensive and idiotic, etc., in turns, because it's just a part of the dogma of your camp on this trek, and you're going to stick with your camp, and to discard other positions that may in fact be useful to the better understanding of your own camp.

A better attitude in my mind is the open mind, the selective synthesis of numerous ideas, with a view to tentatively accepting some of them, and with certainty very few of them, until they themselves manage to impress you. By this attitude, I would feel free to discard notions that are unproven, simply on the grounds on the high probability of those notions being misunderstood, both by myself, and also by any of the long chain of interpreters and authors of once ancient texts. But I would also leave them open to potential metaphoric or even literal truth depending on better understanding in the future.

Heaven and hell? How many heavens are there? What are their kinds and nature and purpose? Did the authors of the religious texts have direct view of these heavens and hells? How did they see hells? Why does a loving God create hell for his children? Etc.

We think we know what they mean, but we can't really accept them as such, so we know that they mean something different from what we're led to believe, if they exist at all in Reality.

How many Gods are there? Are there three in Christianity? Are there millions in Hinduism? Is there only one in Islam, so that even its own prophet is only a man, and then Jesus too, although the prophet of Islam says that Jesus was a true prophet of God and Jesus said he was one with God? Is the infinite God of the Abrahamic religions so different from the infinite God of Hinduism and so different from the infinite God of the Deists? I find it more rational to think that God might exist, and then that same God might have appeared to different people at different times and given a different part of what must be a universally coherent message, than to think that just one of these mutually exclusive bizarre positions just happens to be correct and all the others pure fiction.

This thread is not yet blessed with a Rumi quotation. But Rumi liked silence too.
 

engineereeyore

Platinum Member
Jul 23, 2005
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Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
If I looked at spirtuality as "playing the percentages" and felt I had to pick some set-in-stone belief, I think I'd pick Judism, or maybe Hinduism because I like their reincarnation ideas.

My Dad and all his friends are WWII vets and they've all been to Hell and back, literally, which I think jaded their beliefs. It seems that myself and all their kids went to church every Sunday, but in the last analysis we were all left to make up our own minds on what to believe.

To me it seems that orgainized religion is too easily corrupted and abused, so I've just come to the conclusion that being a good honest person is it's own reward. It doesn't matter if there is a reward or afterlife for being "good", because being good is it's own reward.

Like I said, I agree with you. Regardless of the outcome after this life, the works that we do here on this Earth can, and almost always do, have a profound effect on not only ourself, but those around us. Such experiences are very rewarding. And even if no one else benefits from the work we do, we can feel a sense of satisfaction within ourself at knowing that we did the right thing and we did it for the right reason.

I would agree that it is very easy for organized religion to get corrupted. I actually just started a thread few days ago on the 'Most Hated Family in America' which details a family at the Westboro Baptist church in Topeka KS, and let me tell ya, they got corrupted somewhere pretty badly. However, even given the chances, to me there was a reason Christ organized a church and I don't think he'd allow it to become corrupted. The question just becomes which of all the churches is his?

EDIT: Props to your father for his service. I always wanted to serve my country in the military, but had a head injury as a young child and that pretty much ended that. That being the case, I just try to always show appreciate to those who did, or are doing, what I couldn't.
 

engineereeyore

Platinum Member
Jul 23, 2005
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Originally posted by: miketheidiot
Originally posted by: engineereeyore

The Atheist's wager places all it eggs into a basket that has a very small probably of being correct. That doesn't mean it's not possible, because it definitely is. I'm simply stating that purely playing the statistics game, it's got a major problem.

how are the statistics anymore out of favor for atheists than Christians? Looking around the world, it seems that the odds are that everyone is wrong. Ever seen the episode of family guy were they die, and when they reach the pearly gates, find out that the Mormons had it right?

Oh I'm not saying they are. I stated earlier that there is just as much of a flaw in the Atheist's wager as there is in Pascal's wager. I don't think either of the two is really good for anything. And your right, everyone can't be right, so any way you look at it, there are going to be a lot of wrong people.

Did Family Guy have an episode like that? I remember one from South Park, but I haven't seen the one for Family Guy. Being Mormon, I think it would be pretty cool though.