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Got Back from Japan

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Originally posted by: Narmer
Originally posted by: deathkoba
Originally posted by: Narmer
Originally posted by: deathkoba
Originally posted by: Narmer
Originally posted by: deathkoba
Here's a clue from your local ATJap: Most Japanese people do not talk politics, not even older generations and quite frankly don't understand how it affects them. Most people are too immersed in their utopia surroundings that such reality does not exist. You've probably came across as a total ass and he's probably thinking that there's something seriously wrong with you in all honesty.
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He's not an ass. He's a really great man but, like you said, they never talk politics and he was born in 1934 so he took no part in the war but he felt it greatly because of his family. But, to me, it's unforgivable considering how imperial Japan acted and why these people don't want to discuss it with their neighbors. It's sad for them to move forward on the political front.
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I said YOU came across as an ass to him. In fact most would.
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Well, he apologized profusely afterwards. I may be an ass but I could see that this is something that's been bothering him for quite a long time. Besides, Japanese people are in a serious need of discussing these things. I will try to be direct towards any Japanese I meet in the future.
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I guess you still don't get it. He apologized because he didn't like you. They aren't direct and often express the opposite of what you might be thinking. Dumbass.
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You don't even know the man I'm talking about and yet you're so passionate about it. This guy may be a great person but he's very un-Japanese in many ways. And if you think I'm such a dumbass, it isn't my people who are getting kidnapped by a third-world sh!thole lead by a paranoid leader named Kim Jung-Il. You know what your Japanese leaders do when they kidnap Japanese people, your leaders get on all fours, kowtows to Lil Kim, and begs him to release your people. What kind of sh!t is that? HE'S KIDNAPPING JAPANESE CIVILIANS AND YOU CAN'T DO SH!T ABOUT IT. And I'm the dumbass for discussing the obvious? Well, it this shows what he meant when he said that today's Japanese just care about themselves and not their country. You're an example of that.
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Ok then Mr. Hero of Japan, why don't you go do something about it instead of making some old man feel uncomfortable while you're sticking your weinie up his daughter's ass? Why don't you become a politician and make some real progress on the situation? Only then I'll stop calling you a dumbass. I'm merely informing you that you're putting yourself in a bad situation because you are ignorant about the culture and you've discomforted your gf's father thinking you're hot ******. That's all.
 
Know that very few (if any) Japanese alive today were responsible for the war crimes of WW2. I do not hold modern Japan guilty of that at all, the past is the past and nations/people can change.


BTW, are they still pissed over the atomic bombings?
 
Originally posted by: deathkoba
Originally posted by: Narmer
Originally posted by: deathkoba
Originally posted by: Narmer
Originally posted by: deathkoba
Originally posted by: Narmer
Originally posted by: deathkoba
Here's a clue from your local ATJap: Most Japanese people do not talk politics, not even older generations and quite frankly don't understand how it affects them. Most people are too immersed in their utopia surroundings that such reality does not exist. You've probably came across as a total ass and he's probably thinking that there's something seriously wrong with you in all honesty.
Click to expand...

He's not an ass. He's a really great man but, like you said, they never talk politics and he was born in 1934 so he took no part in the war but he felt it greatly because of his family. But, to me, it's unforgivable considering how imperial Japan acted and why these people don't want to discuss it with their neighbors. It's sad for them to move forward on the political front.
Click to expand...

I said YOU came across as an ass to him. In fact most would.
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Well, he apologized profusely afterwards. I may be an ass but I could see that this is something that's been bothering him for quite a long time. Besides, Japanese people are in a serious need of discussing these things. I will try to be direct towards any Japanese I meet in the future.
Click to expand...

I guess you still don't get it. He apologized because he didn't like you. They aren't direct and often express the opposite of what you might be thinking. Dumbass.
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You don't even know the man I'm talking about and yet you're so passionate about it. This guy may be a great person but he's very un-Japanese in many ways. And if you think I'm such a dumbass, it isn't my people who are getting kidnapped by a third-world sh!thole lead by a paranoid leader named Kim Jung-Il. You know what your Japanese leaders do when they kidnap Japanese people, your leaders get on all fours, kowtows to Lil Kim, and begs him to release your people. What kind of sh!t is that? HE'S KIDNAPPING JAPANESE CIVILIANS AND YOU CAN'T DO SH!T ABOUT IT. And I'm the dumbass for discussing the obvious? Well, it this shows what he meant when he said that today's Japanese just care about themselves and not their country. You're an example of that.
Click to expand...

Ok then Mr. Hero of Japan, why don't you go do something about it instead of making some old man feel uncomfortable while you're sticking your weinie up his daughter's ass? Why don't you become a politician and make some real progress on the situation? Only then I'll stop calling you a dumbass. I'm merely informing you that you're putting yourself in a bad situation because you are ignorant about the culture and you've discomforted your gf's father thinking you're hot ******. That's all.
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My goal is to eventually work in economic policy and I'm doing a damn good job learning my bit about East Asia. Her father knows who I am and he's not afraid to discuss Iraq but is uncomfortable with discussing Japan's past. As much as I love the guy, I can't and won't give him (or Japan) a pass on that. Why the fvck should they sit in silent shame over their past and have the family of all those Chinese people not get their say in the matter. It's fvcked up, really fvcked up. I have family in the Navy and I don't want them defending Japan when a major flare-up occurs because motherfvckers don't want to talk to each other over the past. What's worse, why should my cousin in the Navy protect your ass (if you're in Japan) or your fellow countrymen when you guys have the manpower to do it yourselves? Fvck that. Stop thinking about your fantasy; stop trying to forget about the past, and take care of your own country by actually acknowledging your wrongdoings and actively preventing it from happening again.
 
Originally posted by: Schadenfroh
Know that very few (if any) Japanese alive today were responsible for the war crimes of WW2. I do not hold modern Japan guilty of that at all, the past is the past and nations/people can change.


BTW, are they still pissed over the atomic bombings?
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The people don't want to talk about it and you can see that in their textbooks. It hardly mentions the atrocities but defends Japan's imperial/colonial ways.


Yes they are. But I told them the alternative of us invading with a million soldiers and having millions of Japanese died in the invasion, would've been far worse.
 
I think it's absolutely great that you want to bring up the hard subjects and spread the word to the Japanese about the past mistakes and politics in general. But I think you are being too direct/forward (too American?) about it. Part of getting people to understand and learn/grow/accept is to know how they act and capitalize on it. I think you are very aware how indirect the Japanese culture is -- knowing that, you could use that to your advantage to open a kind of dialogue that they would be comfortable with. By being direct, and by the way your first post sounded, somewhat brash (reading your post reminded me of those political talk shows on TV where they cut people off and just try to 'win' the conversation...I apologize in advance if I read your intentions wrong), you are more likely to keep them from seeing your point of view because they have the initial drawback to your methods.
 
Don't try to argue politics when you're in a foreign country. They live there, you don't. Books can't teach you everything.
 
My GF is from Osaka. I plan on spending a couple weeks there hopefully later this year or next. Really excited.
 
Originally posted by: chrisms
Don't try to argue politics when you're in a foreign country. They live there, you don't. Books can't teach you everything.
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LOL! Germans LOVE to debate politics with visitors...especially Americans. Before Bush, they would pick my brain about capital punishment and gun control. They go right for the big issues, even if you've only known the person a few minutes. And they have no problem discussing their equally tragic past. Great way to learn about another culture!
 
Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
Originally posted by: chrisms
Don't try to argue politics when you're in a foreign country. They live there, you don't. Books can't teach you everything.
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LOL! Germans LOVE to debate politics with visitors...especially Americans. Before Bush, they would pick my brain about capital punishment and gun control. They go right for the big issues, even if you've only known the person a few minutes. And they have no problem discussing their equally tragic past. Great way to learn about another culture!
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I'm glad to hear that. BTW, are all East Asians like the Japanese?
 
Not very bright to bring up politics with an old man. Great way to bond with the in-laws, eh?

What was your goal of pushing him further? For the man to bow down, cry, and apologize to you for past Japanese aggressions??

Privately, he probably thought you were an insolent ass, but publicly apologized to you.

You must feel very proud of yourself, don't you?
 
Originally posted by: Passions
Not very bright to bring up politics with an old man. Great way to bond with the in-laws, eh?

What was your goal of pushing him further? For the man to bow down, cry, and apologize to you for past Japanese aggressions??

Privately, he probably thought you were an insolent ass, but publicly apologized to you.

You must feel very proud of yourself, don't you?
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We discussed Iraq and economics alot. Why should certain things be off the table? Besides, if I was an American and Canadians were kidnapping American citizens on a regular basis, I'd be pissed, instead of begging the Canadians to return the kidnapped Americans. Lastly, I wanted his opinion on WWII since there aren't many Japanese that understand the topic as well as the old.
 
Originally posted by: Narmer
EDIT: I have a book on the Nissan Fairlady Z (350Z) and a SKYLINE badge if anybody wants it. Just PM me.
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They are calling the 350 a Fairlady now? I thought that was the 300xz only. What a shame.
 
Originally posted by: Narmer
Originally posted by: Passions
Not very bright to bring up politics with an old man. Great way to bond with the in-laws, eh?

What was your goal of pushing him further? For the man to bow down, cry, and apologize to you for past Japanese aggressions??

Privately, he probably thought you were an insolent ass, but publicly apologized to you.

You must feel very proud of yourself, don't you?
Click to expand...

We discussed Iraq and economics alot. Why should certain things be off the table? Besides, if I was an American and Canadians were kidnapping American citizens on a regular basis, I'd be pissed, instead of begging the Canadians to return the kidnapped Americans. Lastly, I wanted his opinion on WWII since there aren't many Japanese that understand the topic as well as the old.
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If the man enjoyed a fair political conversation, I can understand that.

But, it is obvious from your own words that you were pushing his buttons on purpose, prodding him further so that you could satisfy your own curiosity.

"I then pushed him further, saying that the Japanese still forget to mention these things in their textbooks, thus denying their youths of the truth. With that, I think I hit a severe nerve and I could sense consternation because he's a very good man but proud Japanese. I then went further, after seeing..."


You comeback with a question, "why should things be off the table?" That's fine. But when you notice the father of the girl you are dating, obviously displaying discomfort, you don't push him further.

You seem to lack a degree of tact and manners. (Two things the Japanese are very big on.) And your weak self-defense only highlights it.
 
LOL I love how the asians are coming out in full force to harp on this guy. Yall are saying he should be respecting his in-laws way (tactful, etc) and you aren't respecting the OP's way (brash, open). Neither way is right, they are both just different. You can't chide him and then do the same thing to the OP.
 
Originally posted by: Narmer
BTW, are all East Asians like the Japanese?
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Do East Asians like Japanese? If I put it bluntly no. It's more directed toward politicians and the nation itself, rather than individuals.
 
Originally posted by: thepd7
LOL I love how the asians are coming out in full force to harp on this guy. Yall are saying he should be respecting his in-laws way (tactful, etc) and you aren't respecting the OP's way (brash, open). Neither way is right, they are both just different. You can't chide him and then do the same thing to the OP.
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Hmmm...goto Japan and keep your brash, open, personality??? Good going! Now you know why most of the world hates ugly Americans traveling abroad. When traveling to another country, I would like to think that you could respect another's culture instead of asserting your own. But you wouldn't know anything about that thepd7, would you? YEE HAW! :roll:
 
Originally posted by: Passions
Originally posted by: Narmer
Originally posted by: Passions
Not very bright to bring up politics with an old man. Great way to bond with the in-laws, eh?

What was your goal of pushing him further? For the man to bow down, cry, and apologize to you for past Japanese aggressions??

Privately, he probably thought you were an insolent ass, but publicly apologized to you.

You must feel very proud of yourself, don't you?
Click to expand...

We discussed Iraq and economics alot. Why should certain things be off the table? Besides, if I was an American and Canadians were kidnapping American citizens on a regular basis, I'd be pissed, instead of begging the Canadians to return the kidnapped Americans. Lastly, I wanted his opinion on WWII since there aren't many Japanese that understand the topic as well as the old.
Click to expand...


If the man enjoyed a fair political conversation, I can understand that.

But, it is obvious from your own words that you were pushing his buttons on purpose, prodding him further so that you could satisfy your own curiosity.

"I then pushed him further, saying that the Japanese still forget to mention these things in their textbooks, thus denying their youths of the truth. With that, I think I hit a severe nerve and I could sense consternation because he's a very good man but proud Japanese. I then went further, after seeing..."


You comeback with a question, "why should things be off the table?" That's fine. But when you notice the father of the girl you are dating, obviously displaying discomfort, you don't push him further.

You seem to lack a degree of tact and manners. (Two things the Japanese are very big on.) And your weak self-defense only highlights it.
Click to expand...

I know their customs but this was a rare opportunity and I took it, irregardless of emotions. Hell, these things are too important to be passed over for the sake of manners. East Asians need to have a real debate about these issues instead of just letting it burn inside forever.

Originally posted by: Passions
Originally posted by: thepd7
LOL I love how the asians are coming out in full force to harp on this guy. Yall are saying he should be respecting his in-laws way (tactful, etc) and you aren't respecting the OP's way (brash, open). Neither way is right, they are both just different. You can't chide him and then do the same thing to the OP.
Click to expand...

Hmmm...goto Japan and keep your brash, open, personality??? Good going! Now you know why most of the world hates ugly Americans traveling abroad. When traveling to another country, I would like to think that you could respect another's culture instead of asserting your own. But you wouldn't know anything about that thepd7, would you? YEE HAW! :roll:
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We ugly Americans are the ones keeping the peace so show some respect when we ask why our young men and women should die for your country and why you can't talk with your neighbors, let alone your own ally?
 
Originally posted by: thepd7
LOL I love how the asians are coming out in full force to harp on this guy. Yall are saying he should be respecting his in-laws way (tactful, etc) and you aren't respecting the OP's way (brash, open). Neither way is right, they are both just different. You can't chide him and then do the same thing to the OP.
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You're forgetting that he was in his in-laws country. Maybe if they came over to America, he would expect them to be a bit more outspoken, or at least be more comfortable when people around them are.

When in Rome...

Originally posted by: Narmer
I know their customs but this was a rare opportunity and I took it, irregardless of emotions. Hell, these things are too important to be passed over for the sake of manners. East Asians need to have a real debate about these issues instead of just letting it burn inside forever.
Click to expand...

Your opinion, not based on fact but on culture. East Asia has done a very good job of being successful without compromising on etiquette. Perhaps it might "burn inside" for an American to try the same, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't work for them.
 
Originally posted by: jagec
Originally posted by: thepd7
LOL I love how the asians are coming out in full force to harp on this guy. Yall are saying he should be respecting his in-laws way (tactful, etc) and you aren't respecting the OP's way (brash, open). Neither way is right, they are both just different. You can't chide him and then do the same thing to the OP.
Click to expand...

You're forgetting that he was in his in-laws country. Maybe if they came over to America, he would expect them to be a bit more outspoken, or at least be more comfortable when people around them are.

When in Rome...

Originally posted by: Narmer
I know their customs but this was a rare opportunity and I took it, irregardless of emotions. Hell, these things are too important to be passed over for the sake of manners. East Asians need to have a real debate about these issues instead of just letting it burn inside forever.
Click to expand...

Your opinion, not based on fact but on culture. East Asia has done a very good job of being successful without compromising on etiquette. Perhaps it might "burn inside" for an American to try the same, but that doesn't mean that it doesn't work for them.
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You're right. Just like Japan continued to exist after Hiroshima and Nagasaki, East Asia will continue to prosper if there is a nuclear Holocaust. I just don't want AMerican lives wasted because of their etiquette.

 
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