Oh, and for what it's worth I agree with what you say above. I don't think the government has the right to tell kids they can't pray in school, or that someone can't hold a chruch service in a park, or any other free expression of any religion. I just don't want the government participating, or my tax dollars (not that I really pay any anyway) contributing. As long as it's all purely the people and never the government, I'm all for it.
Oh, and for what it's worth I agree with what you say above. I don't think the government has the right to tell kids they can't pray in school, or that someone can't hold a chruch service in a park, or any other free expression of any religion. I just don't want the government participating, or my tax dollars (not that I really pay any anyway) contributing. As long as it's all purely the people and never the government, I'm all for it.
While I agree with you, conjur, I don't think it is right to vilify a police officer for not knowing every court decision in the history of man.
This is an arguement unto itself, but man our government is FILLED with Christianity. Have you seen Washington DC? Most buildings have Christian symbolism. Have you ever been a witness in court, tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help me GOD, with your hand on a bible. Most of our founding fathers were Christian and spoke of God and christianity often.
But this is way off topic. This is about the morality of this country wasting away to nothing. Look I talk to my kids nightly about everything. I teach them right from wrong. I teach them morals and values. But it is a total lack of respect and lack of decency that people show stuff like this.
This is all of coarse my own opinion, I just seem to expect more out of mankind then is actually there!
Man I totally appreciate having a difference of opinion with someone and being able to civily discuss it without name calling and anger, this is how this area SHOULD be but often is not.
I'm 100% for free speech. This person should be able to have the bumper sticker on the back of the car. However, I certainly wouldn't say the cop deserves to be fired or even reprimanded. Retrained on what is an arrestable offense, sure, but not fired.
You actually don't have to say, 'so help me god', nor are you required to place your hand on a bible. I'm talking about federal btw, states often came up with very theocratic constitutions (such as you orginally had to be a CHRISTIAN (not just religious) to vote, or be a juror, or hold elected office etc). But those things were all at the state level, not federal, and have long since been done away with (except for the requirement to be religious to hold office). Anyway, you cannot be required to participate in any religious observance. Instead of the whole bible thing or so help me god thing you are always allowed to say 'I so affirm'. That's how I took the oath of enlistment to the military, and how I've testified.
That ALL came about in two waves, the first during and after the civil war in an effort for re-unification and the second was during mccartheism and the work to oppose 'godless communism'. In both cases the changes were railroaded by religious organizations (like the koc) in league with certain prominent politicians and businessmen (pretty much the old give and take, we'll get our congregation to back you in the next election if you convince the businesses to give money to support these changes). If you read all the original writings it wasn't that way at all. If you're talking raw percentages, yes, most of the founders were of some christian denomination. However you should clarify that a bit, because in the last 60 years fundamentalists have tried to imply that most means 90% or something and christian means purely catholic or mainstream protestant, and that's patently untrue. A large number of our founders were deists, and many were from non-mainstream religious branches (like quakers).
What I've found in my quest for spiritual fulfillment and plain truth is that both sides (liberal and conservative, christian and atheist) have stooped to some pretty dirty politicking to get their way imposed on others. Neither are fully true, neither are fully false. Sadly, I think it's grown MUCH worse in the last 4 years and I believe it's going to get far far worse yet...possibly bad enough to bring real damage to the country. Like I said before, I want everyone to be able to practice their religion freely, but I'll execute every man and woman in the country or die trying before I'll live under a theocracy or see the intent of the founders flushed away out of prideful religious zealotry.
I do lean more conservative, but do not hold true conservative views. And I am not going to walk up to someone and assult them just because I do not like their bumper sticker, it is more of my thought of anger over the way I have to shield my kids every day from this crap. Gone are the days of moral clearity and gone are the days of respect for those around you. I guess I just need to lib up a little and see nothing wrong in this crap. I am going to start next week, I am going to post an advertisement for my business and I am going to have a sale, maybe I will call it.... "MY BIG FVCKING SALE". I could also open a porn shop and have a sign that says "FVCK TOYS HERE". I mean that kind of language is perfectly fine and protected as free speach right? I like the way this is going, I feel, well LIBERATED. Maybe a shirt can be made for my friends that voted for sKerry "I TRIED TO FVCK BUSH" or a shirt that I can wear to the mall that simply says "FVCK YOU".
Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
Haha - how interestingI saw a POS gas guzzling bronco(full size) today that had a brand new "Fvck Bush" sticker on it. I chuckled. I mean, go ahead and throw your public tantrum via a bumper sticker if you wish - it's not like it's going to change anything. Infact I'd say more moderate folk might even get turned off the rabid left's antics.
<- can't wait for the next election cycle :laugh:
BTW - you can't swear in public in alot of places, heck you can't swear on TV. I really don't care if people put that on their vehicles, and I don't think it should be against the law to do so - but I think people should have the decency to choose more appropriate types of displays.
CsG
This I agree with (see bold). I would only add that the same holds true for the rabid right's antics as well.
Originally posted by: Red Dawn
Or a person using his right to free speech to gome across as an idiot
I think this is just a case of you expressing your frustration over the situation and I really don't believe you are an idiot.
I understand, I would never do any of that and you are right, I am frustrated. I have 2 daughters one of them 5. I have to continually explain to her why the little guy is peeing on something and stuff like that. I will always defend free speach, but I feel that there is a line that should not be crossed. It is also about respect, which people seem to lack these days.
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