GOP first Presidential debate tonight on Fox at 9pm

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Jaskalas

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
36,414
10,720
136
CallMeJoe said:
The Greenville, SC Fox affiliate's morning show mentioned Gov. Johnson's and Rep. Paul's performance in the debate and commented how interesting it was to have a "Liberal" viewpoint in the Republican Party.
I think Rep. Paul already too marginalized within the party and Gov. Johnson far too sane for either man to have a chance of winning the Republican nomination.
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Liberty must be at the forefront of efforts to conserve the nation's founding principles. If the GOP wishes to forsake "Liberal" policy, using the classic definition of the term as synonymous with freedom, then it is our civic duty to ensure the GOP is never elected again.
 
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CLite

Golden Member
Dec 6, 2005
1,726
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Gary Johnson could inspire me to register Republican. The fact that he mentioned cost-benefit analysis (rather than just slash/slash/slash) blew my mind, I didn't realize politicians could actually be intelligent.

Too bad the socially conservative elements of our society (in both parties) will make him unelectable, because he doesn't attend church.
 
sunzt

sunzt

Diamond Member
Nov 27, 2003
3,076
3
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CLite said:
Gary Johnson could inspire me to register Republican. The fact that he mentioned cost-benefit analysis (rather than just slash/slash/slash) blew my mind, I didn't realize politicians could actually be intelligent.

Too bad the socially conservative elements of our society (in both parties) will make him unelectable, because he doesn't attend church.
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Funny how rational thinking people who promote cost-benefit analysis also tend to have centrist/left of center social positions huh?
 
soundforbjt

soundforbjt

Lifer
Feb 15, 2002
17,788
6,041
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The biggest disappointment was Pawlenty to me, He is not ready for prime time at all.

Santorum, just plain nuts.

Johnson sounded good until he said we should do away with taxes on Corporations. But he looked too timid, not presidential at all.

It's going to boil down to The Huckster or "magic underwear" Romney, just my prediction.
 
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Codewiz

Diamond Member
Jan 23, 2002
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soundforbjt said:
And why do you think that is?
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Has nothing to do with flip flopping on the issues, that is for sure.

If you are looking for an honest answer, I can give it to you. It is pretty simple.

Most libertarians are socially liberal and fiscally conservative. And when I say socially liberal, I don't mean socialism. I mean they do not believe it is the governments job to get into the lives of individuals.

That pretty much eliminates them from the majority of two groups of people. "republicans" are typically religious and that isn't going to be ok with social views of libertarians.

The other side are the "democrats", they aren't going to be ok with the free market aspects and less social programs.

Therefore, it is very difficult for a libertarian to get elected. Most republicans are religious zealots. And most democrats don't want any social programs cut.
 
CallMeJoe

CallMeJoe

Diamond Member
Jul 30, 2004
6,938
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jonks said:
So what positions make GJ a republican?
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He chose to affiliate with the Republican Party and won their nomination to governor of New Mexico. He chooses to continue that affiliation and has not yet been rejected by that party.
 
soundforbjt

soundforbjt

Lifer
Feb 15, 2002
17,788
6,041
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Codewiz said:
Has nothing to do with flip flopping on the issues, that is for sure.

If you are looking for an honest answer, I can give it to you. It is pretty simple.

Most libertarians are socially liberal and fiscally conservative. And when I say socially liberal, I don't mean socialism. I mean they do not believe it is the governments job to get into the lives of individuals.

That pretty much eliminates them from the majority of two groups of people. "republicans" are typically religious and that isn't going to be ok with social views of libertarians.

The other side are the "democrats", they aren't going to be ok with the free market aspects and less social programs.

Therefore, it is very difficult for a libertarian to get elected. Most republicans are religious zealots. And most democrats don't want any social programs cut.
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Which is why until Liberterians get a majority elected (good luck with that), Neither a Liberterian President or a couple in Congress or Senate will make any difference.
 
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Codewiz

Diamond Member
Jan 23, 2002
5,758
0
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soundforbjt said:
Which is why until Liberterians get a majority elected (good luck with that), Neither a Liberterian President or a couple in Congress or Senate will make any difference.
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I am just curious what you are trying to argue. You said it was the truth that libertarians say one thing prior to the election and flip once elected. I asked for some sort of proof and you decide to try and change the argument.

I will just take that as an admission that you were just full of it.

As for whether a "republican" such as Johnson could make a difference, I would offer that if he were elected, he could make a huge difference as president. I just don't see democrats and republicans uniting to overturn his veto heavy pen.
 
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Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,548
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A compliment for our Republican posters here for strongly attacking Santorum.

He's so much worse even than the others.

I'm not sure if people understand how powerful he was earlier, when he hosted 'the' weekly meeting for the nation's right-wing strategy sessions (politicians, media etc.)

This was the more corrupt type activity to pursue power the wrong way, e.g., keeping everyone saying the same message while catering to lobbyists.
 
Steeplerot

Steeplerot

Lifer
Mar 29, 2004
13,051
6
81
Codewiz said:
Has nothing to do with flip flopping on the issues, that is for sure.

If you are looking for an honest answer, I can give it to you. It is pretty simple.

Most libertarians are socially liberal and fiscally conservative. And when I say socially liberal, I don't mean socialism. I mean they do not believe it is the governments job to get into the lives of individuals.

That pretty much eliminates them from the majority of two groups of people. "republicans" are typically religious and that isn't going to be ok with social views of libertarians.

The other side are the "democrats", they aren't going to be ok with the free market aspects and less social programs.

Therefore, it is very difficult for a libertarian to get elected. Most republicans are religious zealots. And most democrats don't want any social programs cut.
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This is utter hogwash. There is no group of people trying to enslave mankind to not govermemt (which is a idiotic term in itself)

Libertarian do not get elected because in the real world their "purpose" is a giant strawman.

Show me one of these "fiscal conservatives" in the real world. There is no such beast.

It is made up PR. The man behind the curtain have you.


You get government that meers real world needs to get the job done in the real world.
 
soundforbjt

soundforbjt

Lifer
Feb 15, 2002
17,788
6,041
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Let me ask liberterians this question:

Has Rand Paul or Ron made any difference in government? Have any of their ideas been implemented? Their introduced bills made into laws? Will they make any difference?
 
T

TechBoyJK

Lifer
Oct 17, 2002
16,699
60
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soundforbjt said:
The biggest disappointment was Pawlenty to me, He is not ready for prime time at all.

Santorum, just plain nuts.

Johnson sounded good until he said we should do away with taxes on Corporations. But he looked too timid, not presidential at all.

It's going to boil down to The Huckster or "magic underwear" Romney, just my prediction.
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Pawlenty and Santorum both sounded like they had no business being up there. They are good looking guys that like to talk. They both seemed pretty egotistical.

What's your definition of presidential? We need someone who will get the job done. Say what you will about GJ's ideas, he worked wonders for New Mexico by running it as a business, not some political bureaucratic machine. He actually focuses on the state turning a profit. He may not be 'presidential' in his appearance and attitude, but of all the people up there, nobody's resume holds a candle to GJ's. He's walked the walked AND talked the talk. He's not only a successful businessman, but by any measure he was an incredibly successful governor, and if anybody has a down to earth view on what to do about illegal immigration it's going to be a successful governor of a border state.

He made a good point, the idea of lining up troops all along a 2,000 mile border is crazy and will never happen, so why even talk about it?
 
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TechBoyJK

Lifer
Oct 17, 2002
16,699
60
91
soundforbjt said:
Let me ask liberterians this question:

Has Rand Paul or Ron made any difference in government? Have any of their ideas been implemented? Their introduced bills made into laws? Will they make any difference?
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This is the difference between Ron Paul and Gary Johnson. Paul has a lot of good ideas, and loves to talk about them. GJ's actually been a governor and a successful one at that. He actually left the state with a surplus. Not to mention it's a 2:1 democractic state willing to elect a republican because he's just that good. He's very logical and sane.
 
soundforbjt

soundforbjt

Lifer
Feb 15, 2002
17,788
6,041
136
TechBoyJK said:
This is the difference between Ron Paul and Gary Johnson. Paul has a lot of good ideas, and loves to talk about them. GJ's actually been a governor and a successful one at that. He actually left the state with a surplus. Not to mention it's a 2:1 democractic state willing to elect a republican because he's just that good. He's very logical and sane.
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But, he has no foreign policy chops. And I still don't like his no tax on corps idea, puts him in bed with big business.
 
S

soulcougher73

Lifer
Nov 29, 2006
15,925
4,498
136
UberNeuman said:
My take on the debate

th_boring.gif
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LOL
 
J

jacc1234

Senior member
Sep 3, 2005
392
0
0
Codewiz said:
I would love for you to show me some proof. I would say that there are hardly any libertarians that have ever been elected.
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Rand paul flipped on the MJ issue once he realized he actually had a shot of being elected.

Also, I didn't mean to imply that only libertarians flip on the whole drug issue. Liberals also do it. Look at Obamas big flip on handling medical MJ.
 
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