GOP ACA Replacement Imminent....Predictions

[Jhhnn]

This would be an interesting sell. This would show the people that such an entitlement is not free. I think many would oppose it because they'd much rather someone else pay for it...like "the rich" or their employer. I could go for that but there is the question of why should the working folks, who are only about a third of the country, pay for everyone's healthcare?

That third of the country remark is so vague as to be a meaningless distraction.

What conservatives really, really, really don't get is that an enormous shift in national income share has crippled the ability of working people to have rewarding lifestyles. We're shifting from a production based economy to a rentier economy where income is derived from ownership rather than work. Automation obviously does an increasing amount of the work but most Americans don't own any part of it. What they have to offer to our capitalists is what our capitalists want less & less of every day. They don't need labor.

 

[Engineer]

That third of the country remark is so vague as to be a meaningless distraction.

What conservatives really, really, really don't get is that an enormous shift in national income share has crippled the ability of working people to have rewarding lifestyles. We're shifting from a production based economy to a rentier economy where income is derived from ownership rather than work. Automation obviously does an increasing amount of the work but most Americans don't own any part of it. What they have to offer to our capitalists is what our capitalists want less & less of every day. They don't need labor.

and to make up for the loss of income, the capitalists offer lots of credit (and get bailouts when it all goes crashing down). So much winning!!!

 

[trenchfoot]

That third of the country remark is so vague as to be a meaningless distraction.

What conservatives really, really, really don't get is that an enormous shift in national income share has crippled the ability of working people to have rewarding lifestyles. We're shifting from a production based economy to a rentier economy where income is derived from ownership rather than work. Automation obviously does an increasing amount of the work but most Americans don't own any part of it. What they have to offer to our capitalists is what our capitalists want less & less of every day. They don't need labor.

It seems it's going to come down to the ownership society being served by the robots and the robots being served by the working class.

 

[Sea Ray]

That third of the country remark is so vague as to be a meaningless distraction.

What conservatives really, really, really don't get is that an enormous shift in national income share has crippled the ability of working people to have rewarding lifestyles. We're shifting from a production based economy to a rentier economy where income is derived from ownership rather than work. Automation obviously does an increasing amount of the work but most Americans don't own any part of it. What they have to offer to our capitalists is what our capitalists want less & less of every day. They don't need labor.

This isn't about conservatives. My point was that the labor force is a little over 100million and the population is over 300 mill. It raises the question of why the 100mill should be burdened with the costs for healthcare of the 300 mill. Do you have an answer?

 

[dainthomas]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4724754/US-fairground-makeshift-hospital.html
Third world style health care in Virginia, which didn't expand Medicaid.

And yet the majority in rural Virginia voted for the Scammer in Chief and his sycophants. The disconnect it takes to do that while camping in a field to see a doctor in a horse stall is enormous.

 

[theeedude]

And yet the majority in rural Virginia voted for the Scammer in Chief and his sycophants. The disconnect it takes to do that while camping in a field to see a doctor in a horse stall is enormous.

Cattle deserves to be treated like cattle.

 

[FIVR]

Some Americans were there for dental care, some for tests for glaucoma and some for mammograms, but many of those receiving treatment in places usually reserved for cattle were still supportive of President Trump.

Good for them. I hope they pass that AHCA bill and they outlaw these stupid cattle care centers. These people deserve no healthcare but what God provides them. Loved this article though, hilarious to see rural america reaping what they sew.

 

[SMOGZINN]

This isn't about conservatives. My point was that the labor force is a little over 100million and the population is over 300 mill. It raises the question of why the 100mill should be burdened with the costs for healthcare of the 300 mill. Do you have an answer?

Because society is better off as a whole when people are not dying from preventable diseases. Or, if you want to look at it from a selfish point of view, if 2 out of every 3 people around you are sick, you are in a lot more danger of getting sick as well.

 

[Sea Ray]

Because society is better off as a whole when people are not dying from preventable diseases. Or, if you want to look at it from a selfish point of view, if 2 out of every 3 people around you are sick, you are in a lot more danger of getting sick as well.

It's better off for society to keep us all as healthy as possible. No question about that but why do the workers have to make that happen? I think the most fair way to do it is a national sales tax where everyone pays for it but selfishly speaking, I like your way better 'cause I'll be leaving the workforce before such a plan is enacted. I also like your idea of leaving employers out of it, so there is a lot to like about your plan.

 

[Jhhnn]

It's better off for society to keep us all as healthy as possible. No question about that but why do the workers have to make that happen? I think the most fair way to do it is a national sales tax where everyone pays for it but selfishly speaking, I like your way better 'cause I'll be leaving the workforce before such a plan is enacted. I also like your idea of leaving employers out of it, so there is a lot to like about your plan.

Gawd. A national sales tax sufficient to fund such an effort would crush the lower half of American families.

 

[Thump553]

Sales tax is about the most regressive form of taxation possible (regressive meaning a disproportionate effect on the lower end of the economic scale and a lesser effect at the upper end).

 

[Sea Ray]

Gawd. A national sales tax sufficient to fund such an effort would crush the lower half of American families.

And a 15% payroll tax wouldn't?

 

[Jhhnn]

And a 15% payroll tax wouldn't?

I never suggested such a thing. It was offered in the context of UBI, anyway, iirc.

 

[Sea Ray]

I never suggested such a thing. It was offered in the context of UBI, anyway, iirc.

I understand you didn't personally suggest it. The idea came from this discussion:

A 15% tax on what?

My policies are based on taxing personal income. Though labor is being divested from production, so the target will necessarily shift over time.

 

[Sea Ray]

Sales tax is about the most regressive form of taxation possible (regressive meaning a disproportionate effect on the lower end of the economic scale and a lesser effect at the upper end).

I agree. It is regressive, but funding healthcare is such a huge expenditure, there aren't enough rich folks to fund it. 15% tax on someone making $9/hr is pretty stiff too.

 

[SMOGZINN]

And a 15% payroll tax wouldn't?

No, it wouldn't. Not like a sales tax. The problem with sales taxes is that it hurts those with the least the most, while payroll taxes are limited by labor availability and minimum wage. Those at the very bottom are mostly protected from a payroll tax.

 

[SMOGZINN]

I agree. It is regressive, but funding healthcare is such a huge expenditure, there aren't enough rich folks to fund it. 15% tax on someone making $9/hr is pretty stiff too.

You say that, but the top 1% of America holds something like 90% of the total wealth. So, it would seem reasonable that they hold 90% of the burden.

 

[Engineer]

I see the Russian Cheeto just went on air with a large group of 'mostly children' (known as the "Victims of Obamacare") in the background at the WH preaching about repealing the nightmare of Obamacare. Said how wonderful the GOP plan is. What a crock. I'm sure his supporters will swallow the entire fishing pole....nevermind the hook and sinker.

 

[Sea Ray]

You say that, but the top 1% of America holds something like 90% of the total wealth. So, it would seem reasonable that they hold 90% of the burden.

You're so far off you're just spouting numbers. The top 1% own about a third of our wealth and they generate about 20% of our income.

...the top 1 percent’s share of wealth rose by 6 percentage points to 33 percent...that America’s 1 percent’s share of total U.S. income is roughly 20 percent.

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/03/brookings-1-percent/473478/

But we're not talking things like national defense and paying the White House staff. We're talking about creating a new entitlement. Do we really expect the rich to pay for all of our healthcare? Why does Warren Buffet need to pay for your health insurance? I'm not sure I'm on board with that.

 

[Sea Ray]

No, it wouldn't. Not like a sales tax. The problem with sales taxes is that it hurts those with the least the most, while payroll taxes are limited by labor availability and minimum wage. Those at the very bottom are mostly protected from a payroll tax.

I agree that a sales tax is more regressive than a payroll tax 'cause a sales tax hits those w/o jobs but the question was would it hit those at the lower 50% of American families. I say yes it would indeed.

 

[Engineer]

Looks like McCain is on his way back to DC to vote tomorrow.

Edit: Not sure if it's McCain trying or the GOP establishment trying to get him there.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/mccain-medivac-senate-obamacare-repeal-vote

Trying to take McCain away from his current healthcare so that they can try to take away the current healthcare of over 20 million people.

 

[Jhhnn]

I agree. It is regressive, but funding healthcare is such a huge expenditure, there aren't enough rich folks to fund it. 15% tax on someone making $9/hr is pretty stiff too.

America's wealhtiest fund a large part of the ACA via a 3.8% surtax on income over ~$250K & a .9% tax in support of medicare or medicaid, I forget which. Their tax rates are among the lowest of any first world rich outside of tax haven citizens.

Want more coverage & lower out of pocket foreveryday Americans? The money has to come from somewhere & our wealthiest citizens have more than enough of it to pay more. You can white knight for their greed all you want but it's just the truth. Americans need greater compensation for job loss & wage suppression from our capitalists if we're all to share in quality lifestyles.

I sure as Hell didn't notice rich people having a tougher time of it prior to this trickle down deception we've endured for nearly 40 years.

 

[Sea Ray]

America's wealhtiest fund a large part of the ACA via a 3.8% surtax on income over ~$250K & a .9% tax in support of medicare or medicaid, I forget which. Their tax rates are among the lowest of any first world rich outside of tax haven citizens.

Want more coverage & lower out of pocket foreveryday Americans? The money has to come from somewhere & our wealthiest citizens have more than enough of it to pay more. You can white knight for their greed all you want but it's just the truth. Americans need greater compensation for job loss & wage suppression from our capitalists if we're all to share in quality lifestyles.

I sure as Hell didn't notice rich people having a tougher time of it prior to this trickle down deception we've endured for nearly 40 years.

The top-earning 1 percent of Americans will pay nearly half of the federal income taxes for 2014, the largest share in at least three years, according to a study

...so you're saying that the top 1% pay more than 50% in most other countries?

http://www.cnbc.com/2015/04/13/top-1-pay-nearly-half-of-federal-income-taxes.html

Any tax to pay for single payer will come predominately from the rich. This will be the case regardless of whether it's a sales tax or an income tax.

 

[Jhhnn]

The top 2.7% of tax payers pay half of the income taxes in this country. You say they're paying the lowest taxes anywhere in the world...so you're saying that the top 2-3% pay more than 50% in most other countries?

Any tax to pay for single payer will come predominately from the rich. This will be the case regardless of whether it's a sales tax or an income tax.

Bullshit. Relative to their incomes, the wealthy spend a very small portion on taxable items.

 

[vi edit]

I see the Russian Cheeto just went on air with a large group of 'mostly children' (known as the "Victims of Obamacare") in the background at the WH preaching about repealing the nightmare of Obamacare. Said how wonderful the GOP plan is. What a crock. I'm sure his supporters will swallow the entire fishing pole....nevermind the hook and sinker.

https://news.vice.com/story/trump-tells-room-full-of-kids-obamacare-is-death

Yep. There's not a FUCK THIS GUY that is big enough, bold enough, or vulgar enough to effectively convey my emotions. Somebody please put this senile old bastard out on the corner with the $12 a month he thinks healthcare coverage costs.

And double fuck him for this rally to a bunch of boy scouts.

http://time.com/4871947/donald-trump-boy-scout-jamboree/

He's still trying to rally the base and relish in his win. STAY CLASSY.