Goodbye Research In Motion. Hello BlackBerry! (And BB10)

[Eug]

I can forgive Z10 if the battery life is just OK with BB10.0 but improves with point updates. We'll have to see, and I hope sites with objective testing like AnandTech will test it a couple of times.

Reviews saying BB10 is good, but offers nothing over iOS or android. Maintaining status quo is no way to pull yourself out of a ditch.

Well, the main problem was BB was way behind iOS and Android before. Now at least they have a fighting chance IMO.

BTW, they've been allowing reservations of the Z10 at my carrier (Fido) for a couple of weeks now.

 

[Ravynmagi]

Battery life has to be pretty bad for that to be a factor in my purchasing decision and I think it's been quite a while since I've seen a phone where that was a concern to me.

 

[silverpig]

Battery life has to be pretty bad for that to be a factor in my purchasing decision and I think it's been quite a while since I've seen a phone where that was a concern to me.

From what I have seen, it is not as good as the iPhone 5, but enough to get through a day. Full screen brightness video playback at just over 8 hours is not really realistic usage.

My iPhone 4 barely gets me through the day now and I can't even get a new battery for it without bringing it in.

 

[s44]

Why are y'all debating A15? There's only one dual-A15 SOC anyway, and Samsung isn't going to sell BB chips.

However, if it's really OMAP 4470 and not dual Krait, that's hilarious -- Galaxy S2-level hardware, released in the US a month before the Galaxy S4.

 

[Ravynmagi]

Why are y'all debating A15? There's only one dual-A15 SOC anyway, and Samsung isn't going to sell BB chips.

However, if it's really OMAP 4470 and not dual Krait, that's hilarious -- Galaxy S2-level hardware, released in the US a month before the Galaxy S4.

Yeah, at least a Krait S4 would of been nice. But I'll try not to argue it anymore, if a 4470 keeps Blackberry people happy, then all the better for Blackberry.

 

[jalyst]

I thought S2 was 36xx series?
Is SGSII exactly 4470? If not what is it & what are the differences between it & 4470?
Its still not yet certain if it's using stock 4470 or something custom (probably the former).

 

[dagamer34]

Why are y'all debating A15? There's only one dual-A15 SOC anyway, and Samsung isn't going to sell BB chips.

However, if it's really OMAP 4470 and not dual Krait, that's hilarious -- Galaxy S2-level hardware, released in the US a month before the Galaxy S4.

Does anyone outside of AnandTech pick a phone because of what CPU it has? :whiste:

 

[joshhedge]

Does anyone outside of AnandTech pick a phone because of what CPU it has? :whiste:

At the rate manufacturers are now shoving CPU specs down your throats for phones now, yes.

 

[Red Storm]

Does anyone outside of AnandTech pick a phone because of what CPU it has? :whiste:

I've never done it, but moving forward, who knows? As these things get more and more advanced they become more and more like computers and less like dumb phones. Who doesn't buy a laptop without checking the specs?

 

[s44]

I thought S2 was 36xx series?
Is SGSII exactly 4470? If not what is it & what are the differences between it & 4470?
Its still not yet certain if it's using stock 4470 or something custom (probably the former).

Ha ha, you haven't been on this forum long, have you?

Non-TMo S2s (international, AT&T, Sprint), ran on Samsung's own Exynos 4210 -- dual-core A9 with a high-end GPU for its generation. TI's 4470 is a bit higher clocked (1.5ghz vs 1.2 in the SGS2 and 1.4 in the OG Note), but it's still A9 after two years' of big speed advances (Krait/Swift last year, 28nm A15 this year) and still dual-core in a soon-to-be quad-core world.

And TI doesn't do custom OMAP designs. Heck, they're leaving the mobile SOC space.

 

[Eug]

It should be reiterated that the highest selling smartphone in existence for 2012 has a dual-core processor and a 4" screen at the top of the line.

So yeah, specs matter, but so do a whole lot of other things. I'm not going to declare BB dead just because it doesn't have a quad-core CPU.

 

[Ravynmagi]

Does anyone outside of AnandTech pick a phone because of what CPU it has? :whiste:

I'm not concerned with how informed or naive the general public is. But I am concerned why Blackberry didn't come out with something better for their smartphone. Is "just good enough" really the approach Blackberry should be taking when this far behind?

I guess I was just hoping to see Blackberry be a bit more aggressive on the hardware front.

 

[Ravynmagi]

It should be reiterated that the highest selling smartphone in existence for 2012 has a dual-core processor and 4" screen.

So yeah, specs matter, but so do a whole lot of other things. I'm not going to declare BB dead just because it doesn't have a quad-core CPU.

The problem isn't with the core count, but the architecture. It's an A9. Krait, A15, or Apple's A6 are far ahead of the A9 in performance.

 

[Eug]

It should also be reiterated the problem isn't with the core count, but the architecture. It's an A9. Krait, A15, or Apple's A6 are far ahead of the A9 in performance.

And that's all pretty much irrelevant if the OS is smooth. Just about nobody I know complains about the OS performance of the iPhone 4S.

I don't think BB will be able to compete yet with Apple's hardware/software integration, but given that Android has had problems doing this, I think they might be able to compete favourably on that front with Android on a tech level, AND have the buy-in from enterprise IT departments with regards to support and security. Android in enterprise is picking up steam, but in some places it's still been a hard sell.

I don't think BB is about to take the world by storm, but I think it's really premature for some geeks to declare BB dead just because the Z10 is not running Krait or whatever. Also, as previously suggested, it may have been a conscious choice NOT to use A15 since A15 wasn't even really initially aimed at this space anyway.

 

[s44]

And that's all pretty much irrelevant if the OS is smooth. Just about nobody I know complains about the OS performance of the iPhone 4S.

No, and who cares?

People still notice that *app performance* is better on the 5. OS smoothness is necessary but not sufficient.

BTW I don't think BB10 is DOA in enterprise. But it's certainly not for people who read this forum -- not least because BB data doesn't play well with prepaid.

 

[dlock13]

I've never done it, but moving forward, who knows? As these things get more and more advanced they become more and more like computers and less like dumb phones. Who doesn't buy a laptop without checking the specs?

That's very, very true.

However, I'm seeing BB's move is somewhat like Microsoft with WP8 and Apple with iOS. What I mean by that is when you buy any WP8 phone, they're more or less exactly the same (which some will say is the strict requirements), but I'm even talking about the low end phones. Sure it might load a millisecond faster on the ### than the ##, but it's the same exact experience.

The latest gen iPhones always have almost the same exact experience (save for bugs).

By BB not announcing the exact specs at the unveiling, I'm thinking this is the route they want to take. Android is a battle of cores to get the phone running smoothly (which was alleviated with JB of course, but manufacturers think it's still a huge deal to market the spec).

I think that's why I'm so attracted to WP devices. I don't have to worry about what specs I'm getting because they all run exceptionally well thanks to MS' optimization (and strict hardware) likewise with iOS devices. I want companies to take that approach. I realize Android really can't because of it's lack of guidelines.

Anyway, to sum up my rambling... BB is pushing their OS first and foremost. They want you to realize the work they've done and are going to be doing from now on, and I think that's the most promising thing. They're going to listen to the complaints of their system and fix it instead of just rehashing their old OS several times.

 

[Eug]

No, and who cares?

A ton of people, myself included.

People still notice that *app performance* is better on the 5. OS smoothness is necessary but not sufficient.

Apps generally run quite well on dual-core A9, unless you're talking gaming. Browsing can run quite well on dual-core A9 as Apple has already demonstrated with the 4S, but we'll have to see how well it runs on the Z10.

If anything total memory may be more important, and the Z10 comes with 2 GB RAM.

 

[TheStu]

From what I have seen, it is not as good as the iPhone 5, but enough to get through a day. Full screen brightness video playback at just over 8 hours is not really realistic usage.

My iPhone 4 barely gets me through the day now and I can't even get a new battery for it without bringing it in.

You can't order a battery and a screwdriver on the internet and do it yourself?

 

[silverpig]

I'm not concerned with how informed or naive the general public is. But I am concerned why Blackberry didn't come out with something better for their smartphone. Is "just good enough" really the approach Blackberry should be taking when this far behind?

I guess I was just hoping to see Blackberry be a bit more aggressive on the hardware front.

That would probably be way too expensive for them. They don't have the buying power that Apple does, and they don't manufacture chips like Samsung does. They'd probably be looking at $800-900 for a 1920x1080, 4 core, 4 GB ram, 32 GB flash phone.

This is a good start. They'll tweak the OS, they'll add apps, and then in another year or 18 months they'll launch the Z11 or whatever. If the Z10 does well, then they'll be able to come closer to Samsung and Apple in specs at that time.

They have a fantastic base to build from though with QNX. That OS is perfect for this application.

 

[silverpig]

No, and who cares?

People still notice that *app performance* is better on the 5. OS smoothness is necessary but not sufficient.

BTW I don't think BB10 is DOA in enterprise. But it's certainly not for people who read this forum -- not least because BB data doesn't play well with prepaid.

At least one carrier here is offering the Z10 with a pre-paid plan option.

 

[jalyst]

Ha ha, you haven't been on this forum long, have you?

Quite a while in-fact, never got round to being heavy poster here, not sure how that's relevant in any way though.

Non-TMo S2s (international, AT&T, Sprint), ran on Samsung's own Exynos 4210 -- dual-core A9 with a high-end GPU for its generation. TI's 4470 is a bit higher clocked (1.5ghz vs 1.2 in the SGS2 and 1.4 in the OG Note),

Ta, and what about all the other (major) subsystems of the respective SoC's, any idea how things compare there?

And TI doesn't do custom OMAP designs.

You know this for fact, any evidence for this?

Heck, they're leaving the mobile SOC space.

I do vaguely recall news about that, but as I recall it was still speculation at that point.
Thanks, I'll Google that one to verify...

 

[grkM3]

too little too late and this cell will go head to head with the 5s and the gs4 in the usa market

 

[Eug]

At least one carrier here is offering the Z10 with a pre-paid plan option.

Yep. Fido has it for $350 on a 2-year plan (which is great, because Canada is still in love with 3-year contracts, which actually cost more than the 2-year contracts for the same service), or else $600 pre-paid.

My wife is eligible for this phone on her $35 plan (200 mins + unlimited eve/we, unlimited Canada long distance and no Canada roaming charges, unlimited SMS/MMS, and 250 MB data), and she could cover about $130 of that cost in Fido bux, so the phone would set her back about $220 up front, if she signed on for 2-years. It'd be pretty easy to flip that for $550 methinks. Not that we'd do that, but I'm sure some will to sell to pre-paid users.

 

[Sheep]

Not liking that at all. I rarely power my phone on/off, but when I do I hate dealing with long boot/shutdown times.

Not saying it's not a problem for others but boot/shutdown times have never been a factor for me for any device aside from the original Palm Pre (that hardware took a full 2-3 minutes to boot which was atrocious considering how often it crashed).

To me, a minute or less is insignificant for a device that you rarely power off. The same logic applies to all those people who hype the fast boot times of Windows 8--it may be faster but the small difference over Windows 7 is utterly irrelevant.

 

[Dari]

Is it really OMAP? Didn't TI exit the market?