Good news for the AGP users powecolor HD3850pro

[happy medium]

Imho, anything less then a duel core cpu won"t cut it for a 3850 in modern games. I'm sure most if not all new games will utilize both cores.

Mabe a pent 4 3.4ee or athlon64 at 2.5 will be allright for the next 6 months but after that it's duel core all the way for gaming.

 

[imported_clockerspiel]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: ja1484
Christ never mind. You lot are no fun at all.


It's holding us back because instead of still riding this PCI-e standard we could be making it obsolete and moving on. But no...gotta wait around for EVERYONE to get on the bandwagon before we can do that.

how about dumping your old HW ... it isn't all that fast anymore
--you are holding the rest of us back


your arguments are pretty weak ... AGP is no more holding back PCIe - now up to PCIe2 - then current [ancient] PCI video cards are holding anything back ... they are just catering to a market that won't upgrade *everything* yet. Yet they still want at least mid-range gaming performance without a lot of "work" and expense.

btw, PCIe is old news ... better upgrade again to 2 ... or else it's holding back progress to PCIe3
:roll:

I think apoppin and Keysplayer make good points, as they usually do. And not to beat a "dead horse" to death, and quoting from one of my posts under a different pseudonym on another forum addressing this issue:

"I think the issue may be more complex. For many, yes, it is probably better to build a new PCIe system. For others it may be more efficient to simplly pop in an upgraded GPU. Each person has to examine available funds and the value-added use gained from any particular upgrade. Steam's surveys provide several interesting facts.

According to Steam's latest survey summary (December 29th, 2007), PCIe 4X/8X/16X comprise roughly 63% of the graphics cards, while AGP 4X/8X is down to about 31%. If these figures are representative of gamers' boxes as a whole, there are still hundreds of thousands of AGP motherboard owners out there that will take notice of the 3850. Another interesting statistic is that 76% of the Steam Survey respondents still use monitors with 4:3 aspect ratios, with 72% using resolutions of 1024x768 or 1280x960 - both well within the capabilities of a 3850 and acceptable for many of the latest games, except perhaps Crysis and for those enthusiasts that seek higher resolutions on widescreen LCDs. For those who choose to upgrade their existing AGP card, it's just a matter of plugging a new gpu in (provided an acceptable power supply is available) - no reloading operating systems, programs, files, having to re-enter product keys, and installing drivers for other system hardware parts, or incurring the additional expenses for a new motherboard, memory, etc. Thus for some, AGP is still a viable option, particularly if funds and time are short, and/or they are trying to extend the useful lifetime of expensive 2 to 3 year old parts.

And it makes no difference what you have now, 6 months or a year from now, your new parts will be worth less than half what you paid for them, and thus a new cycle begins anew. And the X38 or X48 afficionadoes will be chiding those who simply want to "upgrade" their existing P35 and PCIe 1.0 and 1.2 cards. What goes around, comes around. Ultimately, it comes down to your own personal finances, what you can afford, and your own personal philosphy about value, money, and what you are willing to spend to stay close to, or at the "bleeding edge" of technology."

 

[ja1484]

Gets funnier by the minute.

 

[SilentRunning]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: ja1484
Christ never mind. You lot are no fun at all.


It's holding us back because instead of still riding this PCI-e standard we could be making it obsolete and moving on. But no...gotta wait around for EVERYONE to get on the bandwagon before we can do that.

how about dumping your old HW ... it isn't all that fast anymore
--you are holding the rest of us back

System posted by: ja1484

ASUS A8N-SLI Deluxe (S939)
A64x2 4200+ Manchester @ 2.5Ghz
2GB Mushkin DDR400 @ DDR420
BFG 8800GT OC (VF900 + Sinks) @ 700/1760/975
2x SeaGate 160GB HDD
Enermax 460W Whisper II
XP Pro x32


All housed in a CM Centurion 5 + Hi-Perf Silverstone Fans

Not to mention your 32 bit copy of XP is holding people back. Dump DX 9 already and 32 bit is soooo 2007. Why is it that people like you want programmers to waste their time writing 32 bit DX9 code. :evil:

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: ja1484

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: ja1484
Christ never mind. You lot are no fun at all.


It's holding us back because instead of still riding this PCI-e standard we could be making it obsolete and moving on. But no...gotta wait around for EVERYONE to get on the bandwagon before we can do that.

how about dumping your old HW ... it isn't all that fast anymore
--you are holding the rest of us back


your arguments are pretty weak ... AGP is no more holding back PCIe - now up to PCIe2 - then current [ancient] PCI video cards are holding anything back ... they are just catering to a market that won't upgrade *everything* yet. Yet they still want at least mid-range gaming performance without a lot of "work" and expense.

btw, PCIe is old news ... better upgrade again to 2 ... or else it's holding back progress to PCIe3
:roll:

Canterwood can stay. The rest of you...OUT!

for somebody that just signed up yesterday .... you sure make a lot of bold posts ... take your old junk, ancient OS and elitist attitude out of here.

 

[Paratus]

An AGP HD 3850?

Looks like my P4 3.2 will be sticking around a bit longer.

 

[Knowname]

Originally posted by: WAZ
It is good news for people who HAVE AGP systems and don't want to upgrade their motherboard just to boost their graphics a little more. Nothing wrong with that.

I have to say that, that is good news (momentarily), but just look at the situation over at the rage3d forums, ATI is stripping agp support out of their latest catalyst drivers. Slowly, kinda like MS cutting off ties with W9x, but... they will soon. Don't fall for these agp cards that simply use a bridge, they are a false hope. You may be better off buying a pciex mobo even if you have to use integrated video (wich is starting to look pretty decent btw, not yet, but the plans are laid out) for a while.... it's at least better off than you being stuck with a card that's unsupported in the future.

 

[RanDum72]

Originally posted by: SilentRunning

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: ja1484
Christ never mind. You lot are no fun at all.


It's holding us back because instead of still riding this PCI-e standard we could be making it obsolete and moving on. But no...gotta wait around for EVERYONE to get on the bandwagon before we can do that.

how about dumping your old HW ... it isn't all that fast anymore
--you are holding the rest of us back

System posted by: ja1484

ASUS A8N-SLI Deluxe (S939)
A64x2 4200+ Manchester @ 2.5Ghz
2GB Mushkin DDR400 @ DDR420
BFG 8800GT OC (VF900 + Sinks) @ 700/1760/975
2x SeaGate 160GB HDD
Enermax 460W Whisper II
XP Pro x32


All housed in a CM Centurion 5 + Hi-Perf Silverstone Fans

Not to mention your 32 bit copy of XP is holding people back. Dump DX 9 already and 32 bit is soooo 2007. Why is it that people like you want programmers to waste their time writing 32 bit DX9 code. :evil:

DDR400 memory? and OC'ed to 420, a whopping 20mhz above spec? You also need to mention the timings, 2-2-2 1T right? If you aren't in the program yet, you should know DDR3 is the IN thing right now. DDR2 is awwrayt..but DDR400 is holding back DDR4...

 

[bunnyfubbles]

AGP support through new video card hardware is in the clear minority and shrinking at a rate faster than the older/slower PCI standard.
AGP support through new motherboards is much worse than that of new video cards.
AGP support through new chipsets is completely dead (meaning new motherboards will soon follow).

AGP isn't dead but it certainly is on its deathbed, it no longer holds any tangible influence over PCI-e like it did 2-3 years ago, let it die and then rest in peace.

For those that invested in a s939 AGP motherboard (such as the K8N Neo2 series) could very well have a dualcore Opteron or Athlon X2 overclocked to ~2.8GHz and also have ~2GB of memory. Yes such a person would be part of a huge minority but they could certainly make use of an HD3850pro.

 

[ja1484]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: ja1484

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: ja1484
Christ never mind. You lot are no fun at all.


It's holding us back because instead of still riding this PCI-e standard we could be making it obsolete and moving on. But no...gotta wait around for EVERYONE to get on the bandwagon before we can do that.

how about dumping your old HW ... it isn't all that fast anymore
--you are holding the rest of us back


your arguments are pretty weak ... AGP is no more holding back PCIe - now up to PCIe2 - then current [ancient] PCI video cards are holding anything back ... they are just catering to a market that won't upgrade *everything* yet. Yet they still want at least mid-range gaming performance without a lot of "work" and expense.

btw, PCIe is old news ... better upgrade again to 2 ... or else it's holding back progress to PCIe3
:roll:

Canterwood can stay. The rest of you...OUT!

for somebody that just signed up yesterday .... you sure make a lot of bold posts ... take your old junk, ancient OS and elitist attitude out of here.

Pfft, whatever. I've been here since last year.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: ja1484


Pfft, whatever. I've been here since last year.

Unless you have something useful to add. Don't post in this thread again please.
Thank You.

 

[swtethan]

Originally posted by: Paratus
An AGP HD 3850?

Looks like my P4 3.2 will be sticking around a bit longer.

BOTTLENECK FOUND!!!!!

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: swtethan

Originally posted by: Paratus
An AGP HD 3850?

Looks like my P4 3.2 will be sticking around a bit longer.

BOTTLENECK FOUND!!!!!

yes it IS a bottleneck ... but 3850 should be able to perform better in the same system over x1950 series -especially with AA/AF cranked up ... and his 3.2 P4 can also be OC'd

better than not upgrading

 

[Munky]

Originally posted by: angry hampster

Originally posted by: Cogman
Sure, hopefully this will help kill AGP faster. I don't understand why people stick with it when they are spending $20, $30, sometimes $50 premium just so their card will work with there old system. Yeah, it sucks to have to upgrade your entire system, but you can get an entry level PCIE system for dirt now a days.

Agreed. $75 for an 8500GT, $70 dual core AMD proc, $60 micro ATX mobo, $40 for 2gb of RAM. Assuming the case is ATX or micro atx form factor, that would make you set to go for under 250 bucks.

If I had an AGP system with a s754 A64, I'd still be much better off getting an AGP 3850 than rebuilding a new rig only to be stuck with a mediocre 8500gt.

 

[Munky]

Originally posted by: ja1484
Christ never mind. You lot are no fun at all.


It's holding us back because instead of still riding this PCI-e standard we could be making it obsolete and moving on. But no...gotta wait around for EVERYONE to get on the bandwagon before we can do that.

Are you being sarcastic? Why should everyone get on the bandwagon if the new standard does not bring any substantial improvement? With everything else being equal, the pci-e version of the card performs about the same as the AGP version. And as for pci-e 2.0, there's nothing to be gained from all that extra bandwidth. The only useful thing it brings now is that it provides more power to the card from the slot.

 

[ManWithNoName]

Originally posted by: colonel
this is a great news...

http://www.powercolor.com/Glob...res.asp?ProductID=1730

Yes this is very good news for those that need to stay with AGP for one reason or another. Thanks for the post. I'll pass the info along to one of my Buds who has a a pretty decent APG Rig. Right now, he's using a king-sized power hungry, Gecube X1950XT AGP card.

Originally posted by: clockerspiel
I think apoppin and Keysplayer make good points, as they usually do.

I agree. This AGP bashing has really gotten old and I'm suprised people still get their rox off doing it. It's the same on every forum everywhere, as soon as someone poses a question regarding an AGP Card, the public flogging begins or they're descended upon by the zealots that wish to convert them to PCI-E like it's some sort of frickin religion.

 

[ArchAngel777]

The reason people AGP bash is due to ignorance. Seriously, they believe they are really intelligent and have all the data to base their conclusion. They are clearly missing information.

It is sort of like when someone judges something before hearing both sides. They hear the story of one side and declare the judgement. That is about the stupidist thing one could even do. Yet, 90% of the population acts this way. Maybe because it comes naturally?

Keys has listed several good reasons why AGP is alive and kicking and practical in some situations. Open your eyes!

Also, keep in mind, from my personal testing, that an AMD X2 3800+ is more than enough to feed the 8800GTS... Last I checked there were many AMD 939 boards that were AGP only, not to mention the Intel counterparts that have decently fast CPU's with AGP only. AGP is not dead and I am really thrilled that they continue making them. I just wish the price premium was a bit lower.

 

[ja1484]

Originally posted by: munky

Originally posted by: ja1484
Christ never mind. You lot are no fun at all.


It's holding us back because instead of still riding this PCI-e standard we could be making it obsolete and moving on. But no...gotta wait around for EVERYONE to get on the bandwagon before we can do that.

Are you being sarcastic? Why should everyone get on the bandwagon if the new standard does not bring any substantial improvement? With everything else being equal, the pci-e version of the card performs about the same as the AGP version. And as for pci-e 2.0, there's nothing to be gained from all that extra bandwidth. The only useful thing it brings now is that it provides more power to the card from the slot.

Might be on to something there

 

[Stumps]

this could be a good thing for those users with a C2D/C2Q and an Asrock DUAL VSTA series board (VIA PT880 pro or ultra chipset) which have a lot of issues with any PCI-E 2.0 card (they flat out refuse to work with the 8800GT and barely work with the 38x0 series cards under XP...and not at all under Vista)

That setup is plenty fast enougth to let an AGP 3850 stretch it's legs....I don't think anybody would call a C2D or C2Q a cpu bottleneck.

 

[Belles Toaster]

I have a quad-core in my other machine which is a 4core dual vsta. My AGP cards are
suprisingly unbound by it. Rerunning 3dmark at whatever setting boosts all the numbers.
(more than 40%) I guess the old CPU's were bottlenecking them!

 

[evolucion8]

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003

Originally posted by: ja1484

Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
My friend, deny the fact that there are new AGP cards being made as we speak. As long as they are being made, they're alive and kicking. If there were no market for AGP, they wouldn't be making them. THEN it would be dead. Deny that. Now you tell me, who is really in denial here?

You're missing the point, and thus arguing the wrong point.

The point is not that there's a market for AGP cards. There's a market for ballerina costumes that you can put on your dog for halloween.

The point is that people buying both should know better.

Hey, you're entitled to your opinion as we all are. But anyone can see, there is still a market for AGP. I have 2 PCI-e systems, and 3 AGP systems that are pretty decent. All above 3GHz for the AGP systems. Technically, my household is still 60% AGP. ATI has the potential to sell me 3 of these 3850's. Will I? Probably not, in fact I only see one in my future. And one for my mothers computer. So in just my immediate family alone, we will buy two of these AGP 3850's. Now, think about the millions of PC users who still have AGP systems. I don't have census data to tell me the ratio, but I'd be willing to bet there are still more AGP systems out there than there are PCI-e. Eventually that will change of course, just as AGP replaced PCI.

Keep an open mind. You'll go further in.... well, whatever it is you do.

Of course there are probably more AGP systems than PCI-e. And it's holding back the rest of us, which is why we need to force these geriatrics to get a move on.

And this has nothing to do with open minds, for goodness sakes. I'm aware of all the things you point out. You're off topic again. I'll boil it down to an even more basic level: Screw AGP. It's not what I want.

Originally posted by: spittledip
why do people care if AGP dies or not? You all need to just keep it quiet if you don't like it.

It's a win-win. While it's hanging around by its fingernails, we get to be elitists and make fun of people still using it, and when it's finally kicked the bucket good and dead we can move on with advancing the tech again. Thus, the whole glorious cycle repeats.

Exactly "how" is it holding you back from buying what you want? how is it preventing the market from moving forward? After all, we are up to PCI-e 2 already. I don't see AGP holding any sort of tech progress back. And there being a market for AGP is exactly ON TOPIC and exactly what we are talking about here. About how there are people who really appreciate this kind of offering such as the 3850 in AGP.

So, either talk about the 3850, or start your own thread about the death of AGP.

I couldn't say it better.

 

[evolucion8]

Originally posted by: happy medium
Imho, anything less then a duel core cpu won"t cut it for a 3850 in modern games. I'm sure most if not all new games will utilize both cores.

Mabe a pent 4 3.4ee or athlon64 at 2.5 will be allright for the next 6 months but after that it's duel core all the way for gaming.

I upgraded from that Pentium 4 3.4EE to this CPU and the gaming performance is considerably better.

 

[Crumbelievable]

What I hate is how they charge you like double the price for OLD technology! Previously I had a 6800xt for around $80 when I could've had a PCI-e card 3 times as fast for the same price! Also before that I was stuck with only PCI (that's right regular pci) and ended up paying over $100 for a fx5500! Friggin maddening! aahhh, so glad those days are over...

 

[soccerballtux]

I fixed my friend's 7800GT and we popped that in place of his 6800GT and his wow framerates instantly doubled.

There is plenty of a market for this card.

 

[Budarow]

Originally posted by: Scoop
Yeah maybe I'll just buy a new GPU and be cpu bottlenecked for the rest of my life! Been there, done that... never again

Relatively fast AGP cards are perfect for peeps (like me) with a Core2Duo CPU and an ASRocks mobo which has both PCI-E and AGP. The AGP is 8x whereas the PCI-E is only 4x. So this type of system is best served with a fast AGP verses PCI-E (i.e., 2x the bandwidth for AGP verses PCI-E).