Good 5970 vs. 480 reviews? Who's the peoples' champ

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SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
17,305
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Reverse your comparison. GTX495 exists and the 5970 does not. Fair to compare?

Fair to compare the GTX495 to what? The 5870? I think it'd be fair to compare if they were priced near each other, though obviously multi GPU has some issues that a single GPU does not... that has to be taken into consideration. But my guess is a GTX495 would be priced for a completely different market segment than the 5870.

Like I said in my first post in this thread, comparing the 5970 to the GTX480 is sort of like comparing a GeForce GTX250 to the Radeon 4890... they are priced for different market segments. They aren't meant to compete directly.
 

thilanliyan

Lifer
Jun 21, 2005
12,085
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I think I'd like a 5850 with the voltage control after reading that.

Do you know if these two model numbers of 5850 have voltage control?

http://austin.net.au/ProductList/ProductDetail/tabid/104/ProductCode/GC58501GSA50R/Default.aspx

Sapphire ATI HD 5850 1GB 256-bit DDR5, PCI-E, 725/4000MHz [21162-00-50R or 11162-00-50R]

EDIT: that site also gives you an idea how bad our prices are here...that 5850 is a bargain at 359 USD (currently according to google) :p

If that Sapphire is a reference model then yes you can control the voltage. You'll have to go by the model number and not the picture as some places put a picture of one card and send you another. The only non-reference cards that have voltage control are by Asus, MSI, and Gigabyte I think.
 

SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
17,305
1,002
126
I think I'd like a 5850 with the voltage control after reading that.

Do you know if these two model numbers of 5850 have voltage control?

http://austin.net.au/ProductList/ProductDetail/tabid/104/ProductCode/GC58501GSA50R/Default.aspx

Sapphire ATI HD 5850 1GB 256-bit DDR5, PCI-E, 725/4000MHz [21162-00-50R or 11162-00-50R]

EDIT: that site also gives you an idea how bad our prices are here...that 5850 is a bargain at 359 USD (currently according to google) :p


As thilanliyan said, it looks like that is a reference part, it should do what you want (voltage tweak). My non-reference VaporX 5870 does not allow for voltage adjustment. :( The upside is that it's very quiet, I can't even really hear it. It also does hit 960MHz+ on the factory voltage setting, which is still a solid overclock. So, 960MHz while being completely quiet isn't so bad. But if you want 1GHz+ you need a reference model and most likely a voltage bump.
 

Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
17,761
16,113
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Look it's reasonable to compare based on the following:

Best Performance from each manufacturer
Equivalent Price
Top Single GPU to Top Single GPU
Top Single Card to Top Single Card
Most features
Top performance per dollar
Top performance per watt
Top performance per dB
Top performance in 2, 3, 4 GPU/Card config

Fanbois pick your poison. Just realize when you change the goalposts someone will call you on it.
 

MrK6

Diamond Member
Aug 9, 2004
4,458
4
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The 5850 is the people's champ, every other card wants to be it :p.
 

OCGuy

Lifer
Jul 12, 2000
27,224
37
91
Maybe because most reviewers know that 480 and 5970 are completely different animals and are not competing against each other?
 

Skurge

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2009
5,195
1
71
What is the cut-off point for "not in the same price range?" $50, $100, $150, $200 or $250?
Id really like to know?

Can you compare the value of a card that half the price AND half the performance or must they be in the same "price range"?
 

shangshang

Senior member
May 17, 2008
830
0
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Maybe because most reviewers know that 480 and 5970 are completely different animals and are not competing against each other?

nah.

they both target the high end gaming market (because they are gaming cards)
they both target people looking for top framerates with lots of money to spend

Isn't these 2 criteria constitute the bulk of the goals of expensive high-end gaming cards?
To this end, they are exactly the same animal and yes they are competitors.

give it time, reviewers will get to this comparison soon. Reviewers right now are just getting their 480 from NV and they don't wanna hurt NV's feeling yet and be in NV's doghouse for the next generation release.

but eventually the honeymoon will be over and a 480 vs. 5970 comparison is inevitable.
 

shangshang

Senior member
May 17, 2008
830
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What is the cut-off point for "not in the same price range?" $50, $100, $150, $200 or $250?
Id really like to know?

Can you compare the value of a card that half the price AND half the performance or must they be in the same "price range"?

I like to see this metric in all reviews

- playable framerates per dollar
 

Mr. Pedantic

Diamond Member
Feb 14, 2010
5,027
0
76
Best Performance from each manufacturer
Equivalent Price
Top Single GPU to Top Single GPU
Top Single Card to Top Single Card
Most features
Top performance per dollar
Top performance per watt
Top performance per dB
Top performance in 2, 3, 4 GPU/Card config
AMD
I'd say AMD. But it's hard, they're not really in equivalent price points
NVidia
AMD
AMD
AMD
AMD
AMD?
NVidia, NVidia, NVidia, NVidia (I'm pretty sure 4-way SLI is possible. But I don't know whether it's possible for normal people)
 

SHAQ

Senior member
Aug 5, 2002
738
0
76
470 SLI beats a 5970 according to Hardware Canucks review, but loses to 5870 Crossfire. 480 SLI is top right now.
 

SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
17,305
1,002
126
AMD
I'd say AMD. But it's hard, they're not really in equivalent price points
NVidia
AMD
AMD
AMD
AMD
AMD?
NVidia, NVidia, NVidia, NVidia (I'm pretty sure 4-way SLI is possible. But I don't know whether it's possible for normal people)

Top features is entirely up for debate. That's really a personal choice, both companies have some unique features. I'd even say right now Nvidia has more potential features, but I don't know how many people care about Physx, CUDA, or Nvidia's 3D.

Nvidia has the top single GPU, but it's a pretty rare part. And the rumors are that it'll continue to be rare for quite some time. And depending on the games, settings, and overclocking in many situations AMD could have the faster single GPU.

Like someone else said, the goal posts can be moved in a lot of different ways.
 

Grooveriding

Diamond Member
Dec 25, 2008
9,147
1,330
126
If your question is what is the fastest video card on the market, it's the 5970, followed, and followed a far ways back, by the 480.

If you want to go value wise, my favorite comparison is this, 5870 $400, for $100 more you get a 480 and 15% more performance, 480 $500, for $100 more you get a 5970 and 70% more performance.

You do the math.
 

yh125d

Diamond Member
Dec 23, 2006
6,886
0
76
nah.

they both target the high end gaming market (because they are gaming cards)
they both target people looking for top framerates with lots of money to spend

Isn't these 2 criteria constitute the bulk of the goals of expensive high-end gaming cards?
To this end, they are exactly the same animal and yes they are competitors.

give it time, reviewers will get to this comparison soon. Reviewers right now are just getting their 480 from NV and they don't wanna hurt NV's feeling yet and be in NV's doghouse for the next generation release.

but eventually the honeymoon will be over and a 480 vs. 5970 comparison is inevitable.

Flawed logic is flawed. GTX480 is not a direct competitor to 5970
 

nitromullet

Diamond Member
Jan 7, 2004
9,031
36
91
I don't really get what the issue is here.

  • It's customary to compare a new generation single gpu card to the previous generation's dual gpu setup. The expectation is that the new generation singe gpu should come close in performance to last gen's dual setup.
  • It doesn't really make sense to compare current generation multi-gpu cards to current gen single gpu cards. The multi-gpu cards should always win performance benchmarks, if it doesn't something is really, really wrong with the multi-gpu part.
...this applies across manufacturers, regardless of whose dual or single gpu you're talking about.
 

SlowSpyder

Lifer
Jan 12, 2005
17,305
1,002
126
I don't really get what the issue is here.

  • It's customary to compare a new generation single gpu card to the previous generation's dual gpu setup. The expectation is that the new generation singe gpu should come close in performance to last gen's dual setup.
  • It doesn't really make sense to compare current generation multi-gpu cards to current gen single gpu cards. The multi-gpu cards should always win performance benchmarks, if it doesn't something is really, really wrong with the multi-gpu part.
...this applies across manufacturers, regardless of whose dual or single gpu you're talking about.

Well, by the time the GTX480 is out en masse and easy to find/buy you may be able to make the arguement that the 5970 was the previous generation. ;) Here we are many months after the first 5xxx card launched and the GTX480 is barely more than an announced product.
 

MarcVenice

Moderator Emeritus <br>
Apr 2, 2007
5,664
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Wow, at 700 dollars the GTX 480 is a good 200 dollars cheaper.

In Holland/Europe it's a different situation. A GTX 480 costs 450 euro's (absolute cheapest) and a HD 5870 costs 515 euro, absolute cheapest. Then I'd say it's fair.

Percentage wise, the HD 5970 is a lot more expensive then a GTX 480, then a GTX 480 is more expensive then a HD 5870. So yes, I think they are in different price classes.

As per my own review, the HD 5970 seems to be 40&#37;-ish faster then a GTX 480 btw (which makes it better bang for buck).
 

Madcatatlas

Golden Member
Feb 22, 2010
1,155
0
0
Flawed logic is flawed. GTX480 is not a direct competitor to 5970

I wouldnt say his logic is flawed, not at all. Id say its only natural that the top card of the competition is viewed up against the top card of the other competitor.

This will change again as soon as nV launches their dual gpu card. When that happens, we will compare that to the 5970. If it performs better than the 480.

His points about who the buys these cards is not off mark at all, is it?
 

tincart

Senior member
Apr 15, 2010
630
1
0
I find this talk about fair and unfair comparisons strange, I'm not sure what some people are trying to say. Maybe we can clear this up a bit.

There doesn't seem to be, in principle, a reason why we can't compare anything if we provisionally define "compare" as examining and noting the differences and similarities between two objects. I can do this with ANY two objects, so the question is not whether such a comparison can be made but whether a comparison is useful. Comparisons, in the sense we are talking about here, are goal-oriented.

The goal is to give us some insight into the similarities and differences of video cards. Presumably, one kind of insight will be to allow me to determine which one to purchase. A comparison between a very old video card and a very new one can give us relevant information on the increase in computation power over time, price relative to historical power, heat, noise and other relevant metrics - the one thing that it wouldn't give us relevant information on is the question "which one should I buy?" since no one is going to buy the very old card.

Point so far: There are relevant and non-relevant comparisons relative to the questions we want answered.

What people are claiming is either:

1. A comparison between a 480 and a 5970 provides us with NO relevant information

OR

2. A comparison between a 480 and a 5970 provides us with relevant information

Now, if we take position #1 to be a universal, it is obviously false. A comparison between the two cards give us lots of currently relevant information. I won't enumerate some of those items since they should be obvious.

Position #1 does make sense as a non-universal claim and this is what most people are saying. The 5970 and 480 are in different price brackets and so there is no relevant comparison in order to provide information in answering the question "which one should I buy?" or some similar question. The assumption being that a consumer first decides on the $ amount they wish to spend and then looks for the best product at that price level. This obviously happens quite a bit. I budget many purchases based on a pre-set price limit relative to my means and don't bother looking at more expensive options.

Alternatively, if the ceiling is the limit in terms of price and all I want is the best thing going, then the comparison is relevant. I want to buy the fastest card and so I need to know at minimum that the 5970 is faster than the 480. The comparison is valid insofar as it directs my purchase properly. The higher price gives me good reason to assume the 5970 is faster, but before dropping $700 on it, I want hard proof: I may have a deep wallet, but I'm not stupid enough to buy a 700$ if the $500 card is faster for some reason.

Finally, I may have decided on a particular $ amount as a price limit but might be willing change my mind. I go to buy a product with the intention of spending 100$ but find out that I can get a significantly better product (in terms of some relevant feature or performance) for 50$ more. The question is "does the added incentive (feature, performance) justify my going over-budget?" In some cases the answer will be yes, in others, no. The only way for the consumer to decide is if the relevant information is provided in a direct comparison.

So neither position #1 nor #2 is completely accurate as a universal rule. There ARE situations that seem clearly relevant to having a comparison between the 480 and 5970 in order to direct me on relevant questions relating to which I should buy. That this is not true in all cases does not make it an "unfair" comparison.

The information should be out there for the people who would find it relevant.
 

Madcatatlas

Golden Member
Feb 22, 2010
1,155
0
0
You need to post more! bravo. Welcome to the forums

And i do agree in parts with you yh125d. Its a single gpu card vs a dual gpu and it does cost abit less.
 

shangshang

Senior member
May 17, 2008
830
0
0
Flawed logic is flawed. GTX480 is not a direct competitor to 5970

So said you, and probably agreed by the NV marketing dept. OK so can I assume that the 480 is a not a direct competitor because it would get whoop so bad? or what?

Meanwhile in the real worlds, lots of folks are screaming for a direct comparison.

Tincart,
welcome. That was a nice eloquent presentation worthy of college stuff!
 

konakona

Diamond Member
May 6, 2004
6,285
1
0
AMD
I'd say AMD. But it's hard, they're not really in equivalent price points
NVidia
AMD
AMD
AMD
AMD
AMD?
NVidia, NVidia, NVidia, NVidia (I'm pretty sure 4-way SLI is possible. But I don't know whether it's possible for normal people)

well you gotta draw the line somewhere. for my own definition of "normal people", a good deal on a single 5870 is just about pushing it price wise. If we all lived in a dreamland where video cards grow on trees, a pair of watercooled 480s would be far more acceptable.

I like your sig there, may I suggest to add another line on 'voila' (as opposed to the incorrect version, 'walla)? :)
 

yh125d

Diamond Member
Dec 23, 2006
6,886
0
76
So said you, and probably agreed by the NV marketing dept. OK so can I assume that the 480 is a not a direct competitor because it would get whoop so bad? or what?

Meanwhile in the real worlds, lots of folks are screaming for a direct comparison.

Tincart,
welcome. That was a nice eloquent presentation worthy of college stuff!

So says the $125-200 price gap between them. No other component is considered a direct rival of a similar part for 125-200 more. Just like 5850 isnt a direct competitor to GTX480, or GTS250, or how GTX260 isn't a direct competitor to 5870...
 

Tempered81

Diamond Member
Jan 29, 2007
6,374
1
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Heh, this debate: 'HD5970 vs. GTX480' is the same thing we've been discussing since 7950GX2 vs. x1900XT through 3870X2 vs. 8800GTX, 9800GX2 vs. HD4870, 4870X2 vs. GTX280, and GTX295 vs. HD5870.
 

Skurge

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2009
5,195
1
71
So says the $125-200 price gap between them. No other component is considered a direct rival of a similar part for 125-200 more. Just like 5850 isnt a direct competitor to GTX480, or GTS250, or how GTX260 isn't a direct competitor to 5870...

Hmmm. . . $125. Conveniently just a bit more than the difference between a 480 and a 5870 :p
 
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