Going to War With NVIDIA

[Zstream]

Originally posted by: jim1976

Originally posted by: BFG10K
Again I don't mind the fact that the drivers won't be out until Jan 30 per-se, my problem is with nVidia labelling the card as Vista ready now.

I don't see any Vista ready now label on my box or at Nvidia's site...
The problem is your perspective on the issue..
Is Vista for consumers out? NO
So why do you need the drivers for man?

All the remaining affected individuals have absolutely NO NEED of a G80 gpu..
Or at least as I said through tweaking of existing drivers they can work in 2D mode..

*EDIT

Does anyone ever thought that maybe M$ has a silent agreement that neither side can release drivers until the actual product is launched?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ShowImage...Express+x16+HDCP+Video+Card+%2D+Retail


http://www.newegg.com/Product/ShowImage...Express+x16+HDCP+Video+Card+%2D+Retail

That is just two of them and that is on the front of the box, to bad I can not see the backside.

 

[Mr Fox]

Originally posted by: Zstream

Originally posted by: jim1976

Originally posted by: BFG10K
Again I don't mind the fact that the drivers won't be out until Jan 30 per-se, my problem is with nVidia labelling the card as Vista ready now.

I don't see any Vista ready now label on my box or at Nvidia's site...
The problem is your perspective on the issue..
Is Vista for consumers out? NO
So why do you need the drivers for man?

All the remaining affected individuals have absolutely NO NEED of a G80 gpu..
Or at least as I said through tweaking of existing drivers they can work in 2D mode..

*EDIT

Does anyone ever thought that maybe M$ has a silent agreement that neither side can release drivers until the actual product is launched?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ShowImage...Express+x16+HDCP+Video+Card+%2D+Retail


http://www.newegg.com/Product/ShowImage...Express+x16+HDCP+Video+Card+%2D+Retail

That is just two of them and that is on the front of the box, to bad I can not see the backside.

This is the product info at BFG Tech. :

http://www.bfgtech.com/8800GTX_768_PCIe.html

http://www.bfgtech.com/8800GTS_640_PCIe.html

 

[BFG10K]

I don't see any Vista ready now label on my box or at Nvidia's site...

There's no denying the card was marketed as Vista ready. If nVidia's website has changed it's because of the uproar at the nVidia forums and because of the feedback they've gotten.

Is Vista for consumers out?

Yes.

So why do you need the drivers for man?

I don't need drivers, people like these do.

All the remaining affected individuals have absolutely NO NEED of a G80 gpu..

I dare you to jump into that thread and tell them that.

The fact is people like them are early adopters that have access to legit copies of Vista and many of them purchased G80 because it was advertised as Vista ready, only to find there are no drivers.

Had they known drivers won't be coming until Jan 30 many of them would've waited for R600 before making a purchase decision. If I was in their position I would be annoyed too.

Or at least as I said through tweaking of existing drivers they can work in 2D mode..

That's not Vista ready.

 

[BFG10K]

On a server board. We're talking consumer components right here.

I think you're still missing the point so let me put it to you another way: do you think that same server board will now work with SLI? I doubt it.

And if you want a consumer board what about ULi? SLI was working on said chipset until nVidia came along with a ForceWare update and it stopped working.

The PCIe lane argument is also BS since there are many nForce motherboards out there that can only allocate eight lanes to each GPU.

The fact is there is no legitimate reason why SLI can't work on non-nForce platforms, nVidia is simply blocking it through the driver.

 

[jim1976]

*EDIT

Originally posted by: Zstream
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ShowImage...Express+x16+HDCP+Video+Card+%2D+Retail

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ShowImage...Express+x16+HDCP+Video+Card+%2D+Retail

That is just two of them and that is on the front of the box, to bad I can not see the backside.

What does the logo say? "Vista ready now" or "vista ready" which should be connected with the actual Vista release date?
Semantics FTW

Originally posted by: BFG10K

There's no denying the card was marketed as Vista ready. If nVidia's website has changed it's because of the uproar at the nVidia forums and because of the feedback they've gotten.

I find it retarded if someone explains Vista ready logo as a marketing slogan that means you can use the card at a vaporware operating system..Give me the operating system and then we can discuss about the drivers..

Yes.

Where m8? Can you point me to where I can buy them?

I don't need drivers, people like these do.

Being able to use an operating system before its official launch is one thing. Expecting irrationally from every company to provide you with drivers just because Microsoft has granted you the right to use an unreleased operating system is another...

I dare you to jump into that thread and tell them that.

Why wouldn't I? And IF I was to do it, I'd ask from every one bitching about this issue to provide me with legal confirmation that he has a legit copy of Windows :disgust:

The fact is people like them are early adopters that have access to legit copies of Vista and many of them purchased G80 because it was advertised as Vista ready, only to find there are no drivers.

Again it's one thing to have the right to use an unreleased operating system and another to demand drivers from every single company in order for you to be happy. Despite that basing your 8800gtx purchase on this expectation is simply beyond comprehension..Maybe they want a D3D10 driver as well in order to play D3D10 games? :disgust:

Had they known drivers won't be coming until Jan 30 many of them would've waited for R600 before making a purchase decision. If I was in their position I would be annoyed too.

Again this is a retarded expectation .. Basing my 8800GTX purchase for Vista use is my top list priority? :Q 8800GTX is serving me well till now for various reasons ..And using it in Vista was not one of them.. Oh wait I could use a pirated version of Vista.. Yeah you're right I'll go bitch as well :disgust:

That's not Vista ready.

Do we really have to go all over this again ?

The sad truth is that pirates and hackers are bitching about an unreleased operating system. All the other arguments are crap excuses to justify their mean..

 

[josh6079]

What does the logo say? "Vista ready now" or "vista ready" which should be connected with the actual Vista release date?

Why would it say "Vista Ready" if it wasn't ready?

It'd be the same if you said, "I'm ready". People wouldn't ask you, "So does that mean you're ready now?"

The sad truth is that pirates and hackers are bitching about an unreleased operating system.

*cough*

*sniff*

 

[jim1976]

Originally posted by: josh6079

What does the logo say? "Vista ready now" or "vista ready" which should be connected with the actual Vista release date?

Why would it say "Vista Ready" if it wasn't ready?

It'd be the same if you said, "I'm ready". People wouldn't ask you, "So does that mean you're ready now?"

M8 it's not the same.. The operating system is not available.. So logically you should connect the Vista ready logo with the actual release date of Vista.. The card IS Vista ready.. All it remains is to see the OS..

 

[josh6079]

The operating system is not available..

Check my edited post.

 

[redbox]

Jim put your self in their shoes. Lets say you purchase a legal version of an OS and a video card that says it will work with that os. Now lets say it doesn't work; there are no drivers for the OS. What would you do? Would you expect the company that falsely claimed to have a video card ready for your OS to fix the problem.....soon?

 

[jim1976]

If the Home Version of Vista is out and available right now to customers and this is not monkey biz then I stand corrected and Nvidia needs ASAP to release a Vista driver for the G80 users. Plain and simple..

 

[SilentRunning]

I think I have come up with a fair compromise. Intel & AMD can modify their dual core processors to check the motherboard BIOS and if the don't find an Intel or AMD/ATI motherboard then they disable the processors' second core.

 

[josh6079]

Intel & AMD can modify their dual core processors to check the motherboard BIOS and if the don't find an Intel or AMD/ATI motherboard then they disable the processors' second core.

lol, two wrongs don't make a right.

 

[SilentRunning]

Originally posted by: josh6079

Intel & AMD can modify their dual core processors to check the motherboard BIOS and if the don't find an Intel or AMD/ATI motherboard then they disable the processors' second core.

lol, two wrongs don't make a right.

Seems okay to me

 

[BenSkywalker]

Seriously, people don't have a clue about anti trust, not in the slightest fashion as apparent in this discussion

The only way either nVidia or ATi can have anti-trust actions brought against them is if they are brought to court together. Neither of them have a majority or even plurality in the graphics segment, only combined would anyone be able to force a case against them in the name of anti trust. This is simply reality.

False advertising, sure. You could make a case for that, but by definition of the standards of anti trust nVidia and ATi are completely incapable even if they did everything they could to be tried as such. This is simply a matter of reality- if either green or red team does not like it it is not relevant. ATi is facing the exact same suit for the exact same reason as nVidia.

For the other issues brought up in this thread- Intel requires a license in order to produce chipsets that support their processors. This is perfectly legal. They charge money to allow people to make platforms that support their CPUs- nVidia has every legal right to do the exact same thing with any product they make. If the consumers or market in general don't like this, they won't support it and nV will change the way they operate or go out of business. Anything they have done with their drivers and blocking out support for Intel hardware would be laughed out of court- the plantiff likely being countersued and winning that case quite handily(their are laws in place to protect organizations for patently absurd lawsuits). Licensing and the right to offer it or not for your technology is explicitly protected by law. You don't have to like it, but that is the way it is.

There's no denying the card was marketed as Vista ready.

ATi is pulling the same stunt, and having been running Vista on my main rig for months now I can assure you that currently they aren't remotely close to being Vista ready, although Vista itself isn't exactly ready either

 

[redbox]

nvm

 

[josh6079]

Licensing and the right to offer it or not for your technology is explicitly protected by law.

I'm not disagreeing with you since I myself don't know for sure. But, if what you say is Nvidia's right, why aren't they suing Intel for breeching their "protected" feature? I mean, a pair of 7800GT's can be used in SLI on a 975X chipset with drivers lower than the 88.55's and never break any WHQL spec or "hack" any functionality. Shouldn't Nvidia be taking some aggressive measures for that corporate "work-around"?

 

[SilentRunning]

Originally posted by: josh6079

Licensing and the right to offer it or not for your technology is explicitly protected by law.

I'm not disagreeing with you since I myself don't know for sure. But, if what you say is Nvidia's right, why aren't they suing Intel for breeching their "protected" feature? I mean, a pair of 7800GT's can be used in SLI on a 975X chipset with drivers lower than the 88.55's and never break any WHQL spec or "hack" any functionality. Shouldn't Nvidia be taking some aggressive measures for that corporate "work-around"?

The difference is that the PCIe bus is not owned by Nvidia. So my idear is soundin' better and better.

EDIT Kahlua and Egg Nog = Yummy

 

[josh6079]

The difference is that the PCIe bus is not owned by Nvidia. So my idear is soundin' better and better.

LMAO!!!

 

[DeathReborn]

Originally posted by: josh6079

What does the logo say? "Vista ready now" or "vista ready" which should be connected with the actual Vista release date?

Why would it say "Vista Ready" if it wasn't ready?

It'd be the same if you said, "I'm ready". People wouldn't ask you, "So does that mean you're ready now?"

The sad truth is that pirates and hackers are bitching about an unreleased operating system.

*cough*

*sniff*

1st link is an early release, Microsoft have NOT released it for the public consumer YET.

2nd link is for the "XP Corporate" version of Vista and not intended for enthusiasts or gamers but for companies that 99.9% would NEVER run a top of the line GPU.

So BFG is wrong in saying it has been released for the consumer. I wonder how long before Microsoft pulls that from their website because if it was relewased you'd see it in newegg etc.

nVidia are not required to have drivers released for a yet to be released piece of software. I have 2 G80's now and I am not the least bit annoyed about no Vista drivers because like average Joe I will buy it WHEN IT'S RELEASED!

Yes you can get a hold of the RTM Vista legally (if you have the access) but it's considered a Trial, not a full release.

 

[josh6079]

1st link is an early release...

And?

An early release is still a release and one that holds just as much value as one that is sold on a later date. It isn't pirated, it's a legit version that can be purchased.

2nd link is for the "XP Corporate" version of Vista and not intended for enthusiasts or gamers but for companies that 99.9% would NEVER run a top of the line GPU.

Okay. Regardless whether or not you think someone with that version of Vista would use an 8800GTX with it, the fact remains that it should have support.

 

[BFG10K]

"Vista ready now" or "vista ready" which should be connected with the actual Vista release date?

If I say to you "your food is ready" do you expect to be able to eat it now?

I find it retarded if someone explains Vista ready logo as a marketing slogan that means you can use the card at a vaporware operating system

What the hell are you talking about? If I say "your food is ready" that means your food is ready now. Whether you have a stomach to put in into or not is irrelevant to that claim.

Likewise if you try to eat your food now but can't because the food's not there then it isn't ready and my claim is false.

Give me the operating system and then we can discuss about the drivers..

Whether you can get Vista is irrelevant. The point is people have Vista now and many purchased the card because it was claimed it was Vista ready.

Can you point me to where I can buy them?

Stop shifting the goal-post. You asked "is Vista for consumers out?" to which the answer is yes as it's available through multiple legit channels. If you think otherwise I suggest you consult a dictionary for the definition of "consumer".

And again the term "Vista ready" has absolutely no relevance to your ability to acquire said OS.

Expecting irrationally from every company to provide you with drivers just because Microsoft has granted you the right to use an unreleased operating system is another...

Why shouldn't they expect drivers given the product is claimed to be ready for said OS?

And IF I was to do it, I'd ask from every one bitching about this issue to provide me with legal confirmation that he has a legit copy of Windows

You appear to have serious limitations on your understanding of just how Vista is available.

Again it's one thing to have the right to use an unreleased operating system and another to demand drivers from every single company in order for you to be happy.

This is a strawman argument. Nobody is demanding drivers from "every single company". What is being demanded is drivers from a company that claims their product is ready for Vista.

Again this is a retarded expectation

"Your food is ready". Is it a retarded expection to not be able to eat it now?

Basing my 8800GTX purchase for Vista use is my top list priority? 8800GTX is serving me well till now for various reasons ..And using it in Vista was not one of them..

Totally and utterly irrelevant to anything being discussed.

Oh wait I could use a pirated version of Vista

Oh wait, you still don't understand the current legal Vista distribution methods which is why you continue with this "isn't available" nonsense.

Do we really have to go all over this again ?

Sadly it appears we do for your sake as you still don't appear to get it.

The sad truth is that pirates and hackers are bitching about an unreleased operating system. All the other arguments are crap excuses to justify their mean..

:roll:

 

[BFG10K]

ATi is pulling the same stunt,

How so? You have Vista drivers for your product do you not? There are no Vista drivers for the G80. People have to installed hacked XP drivers just to get basic 2D functionality.

and having been running Vista on my main rig for months now I can assure you that currently they aren't remotely close to being Vista ready,

If you want to discuss driver quality then we would have to conclude the G80 isn't XP ready either.

 

[BFG10K]

1st link is an early release, Microsoft have NOT released it for the public consumer YET.

Totally and utterly irrelevant to the Vista ready claim.

2nd link is for the "XP Corporate" version of Vista and not intended for enthusiasts or gamers but for companies that 99.9% would NEVER run a top of the line GPU.

I'm running a corporate version of XP. What's your point? I'm sure plenty of consumers will choose to run the business version of Vista due to its features over the other versions.

So BFG is wrong in saying it has been released for the consumer.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/consumer

consumer

noun
a person who uses goods or services

nVidia are not required to have drivers released for a yet to be released piece of software.

If they claim their product is ready for said software then they sure as hell do, otherwise their claim is false advertising.

I have 2 G80's now and I am not the least bit annoyed about no Vista drivers because like average Joe I will buy it WHEN IT'S RELEASED!

Again totally and utterly irrelevant to nVidia's Vista ready claims. Your opinion of Vista has absolutely no bearing on nVidia's false claims.

Yes you can get a hold of the RTM Vista legally (if you have the access) but it's considered a Trial, not a full release.

It's the final build of software that nVidia claims their product is ready for.

 

[Keysplayr]

The card itself meets DX10 specs does it not? I think a lot of you guys are really getting a little too hot under the collar about this. I said this before, but when Vista finally REALLY ACTUALLY RELEASES, then you can all belly ache about no drivers IF nvidia has not released one by then.

This doesn't really pertain to the Vista driver, but those early adopters of Vista must be in a rush to use the initial release of a Microsoft OS, which historically seem to be ULTRA buggy until at LEAST service pack 1 of any given NT/2000/XP and I'm betting Vista, is/was introduced.

I am speaking for myself with this next comment, but most likely the vast majority will agree with me here. I won't go near Vista with a ten foot cattle prod until at least SP1 is doled out by M$. I did the same with 2000, and XP. Didn't touch them until at least SP1.

 

[jim1976]

Originally posted by: BFG10K
If I say to you "your food is ready" do you expect to be able to eat it now?

If I have a stomach IF IF...

What the hell are you talking about? If I say "your food is ready" that means your food is ready now. Whether you have a stomach to put in into or not is irrelevant to that claim.

How is irrelevant? If I don't have the stomach to digest the food how am I supposed to function properly? What do I need the food for? To look at it ?
The food is ready for me when I will actually be able to eat it..Everything should follow an inductive logic.. We humans are capable of doing that we are not robots.. Speaking literally can give you thousand of retarded explanations. FFS!! :roll: Are we going to continue with this childish nonsense? I for sure am stopping.. :disgust:

Likewise if you try to eat your food now but can't because the food's not there then it isn't ready and my claim is false.

Amen for once you make a valid point and an argument. As you saw I stand corrected because Josh provide me me with a link tha tyou are actually able to buy the OS. See? that wasn't too difficult..

Stop shifting the goal-post. You asked "is Vista for consumers out?" to which the answer is yes as it's available through multiple legit channels. If you think otherwise I suggest you consult a dictionary for the definition of "consumer".

Thank you master.. LOL. I think your understanding needs a little tweaking..I'm not gonna go all over this again. You're a grown boy believe what you want..

And again the term "Vista ready" has absolutely no relevance to your ability to acquire said OS.

No my definition of the ordinary "consumer" does not include the minority of those that have access to the system prior to its official release or the professionals.. Just because you have some privileges given to you by M$ does not mean that everyone is obliged to satisfy you prior to the official release of the system..
But sure. Whatever. I'll just have the drivers sitting right here in order to satisfy your explanation of "Vista Ready"...
Despite that IF you watched more closely you would see that I said I stand corrected when I saw the Home edition of Vista being available..

Why shouldn't they expect drivers given the product is claimed to be ready for said OS?

By your definition of Vista ready why shouldn't I expect a DX10 driver from Nvidia right now as well? :roll:

You appear to have serious limitations on your understanding of just how Vista is available.

IF I do.. Then certainly you are not able to explain them to me with your weird logic.. All you talk is nonsense..Josh provided me with a link that mentioned that Vista is out for US THE VAST MAJORITY OF CONSUMERS THE ORDINARY PPL. And I stand corrected. Now that is a serious argument..

Totally and utterly irrelevant to anything being discussed.

Yeah I know.. Everything that does not include YOUR definition of being correct is nonsense and irrelevant..

Oh wait, you still don't understand the current legal Vista distribution methods which is why you continue with this "isn't available" nonsense.

Yes I know, but I don't find your explanation adequate sufficient and clear..

Sadly it appears we do for your sake as you still don't appear to get it.

I'm gonna do me a favor and stop here. It's obvious that your ego-mania has affected you once again and that is apparent in many of your posts lately..You can believe what you want, I simply don't agree with your twisted logic..