Going to War With NVIDIA

[Mr Fox]

Originally posted by: Nelsieus

Originally posted by: Mr Fox

Originally posted by: Nelsieus

Originally posted by: Mr Fox
From my E-mail :
From: USDOJ-ATD [mailto:Antitrust.Complaints@usdoj.gov]
Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2006 2:28 PM
To: ---- Fox
Subject: RE: NVIDIA Anti-Competitive actions.Anti-Trust Investigation
RE: NVIDIA Anti-Competitive actions.Anti-Trust Investigation
Re: NVIDIA Corp.
2701 San Tomas Expressway
Santa Clara, CA 95050
408.486.2000 | www.nvidia.com
Partner: BFG Technologies
28690 Ballard Drive
Lake Forest, Illinois 60045
847.281.3110 / http://www.bfgtech.com

Dear Mr. Fox:

Thank you for your continued correspondence with the U.S. Department of Justice Antitrust Division. While the staff at the Antitrust Division is well versed in Antitrust laws, we have less expertise concerning specific commodities, including the software and computer industry.

However, we did have an additional staff member review your complaint and we have have forwarded your complaint package to the appropriate legal staff for further action. We have your information on file and should the legal staff need further information, they may contact you in the future.
We appreciate your interest in the enforcement of federal antitrust laws.

Sincerely,

Antitrust Division

United States Department of Justice

Where in that e-mail suggests "a deeper investigation on NVIDIA relating to their drivers, and software and feature support on other vendors core logic chipsets?"

I'd hope you would have compelling evidence to support that claim, otherwise, the reviewers of your statement are going to merely overlook it as frivilous and speculative (as many of us are already doing).

Nelsieus

The fact that it has gone thru their screening process, and moved to the next level.

Belive what you wish there was 25 pages of supporting documemtation that was not layed out here.

Please just do it in a Seperate Thread.

Thank You !!

There's no point in creating multiple threads for this one issue.

Secondly, you still haven't presented your evidence that there's "a deeper investigation on NVIDIA relating to their drivers, and software and feature support on other vendors core logic chipsets." They simply stated that they received your complaint and are reviewing it.

So I'm starting to dismiss your claims, but hope you get any answers you're seeking.

Nelsieus

It is obvious that you are biased, and attempting to get this thread locked....


I will not stoop to personal attacks.

This is serious and your belief is not relevant..

Take Care !

 

[Wreckage]

So they are investigating both ATI and NVIDIA for price fixing and then you sent them an email complaining about not being able to use SLI on an Intel Chipset?


I guess I could send them an email saying I don't like the color of ATI cards and say that the Government is looking into it.

LOL.....

 

[Nelsieus]

Originally posted by: Mr Fox
It is obvious that you are biased, and attempting to get this thread locked....

Just like it was at Hardforums?

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1135509&page=1&pp=20&highlight=war+nVidia


Nelsieus

 

[josh6079]

nevermind, saw nitro's post.

 

[Acanthus]

Originally posted by: Wreckage
So they are investigating both ATI and NVIDIA for price fixing and then you sent them an email complaining about not being able to use SLI on an Intel Chipset?


I guess I could send them an email saying I don't like the color of ATI cards and say that the Government is looking into it.

LOL.....

Exactly, all of the stuff ive seen has been about collusion.

 

[stnicralisk]

Originally posted by: Wreckage
So they are investigating both ATI and NVIDIA for price fixing and then you sent them an email complaining about not being able to use SLI on an Intel Chipset?


I guess I could send them an email saying I don't like the color of ATI cards and say that the Government is looking into it.

LOL.....

I dont see how this is the same thing at all?

Also earlier you posted about using iTunes on a non-iPod. This is indeed a reality. It requires a hack to do so but the hack does work. The issue at stake here is that 975X is capable of running the software but that Nvidia has taken it upon themselves to lockout the chipset from having the capability.

Are you the next Nvidia advertiser? You sound like a member who was dismissed about a year ago.

 

[Nelsieus]

Originally posted by: stnicralisk
The issue at stake here is that 975X is capable of running the software but that Nvidia has taken it upon themselves to lockout the chipset from having the capability.

There is nothing wrong with keeping their property exclusive to their chipsets. As nVidia states:

?From the extensive, top-to-bottom line up of graphics cards, to a myriad of games, power supplies and other components ? including motherboards ? that make up the SLI ecosystem, SLI is a signifcant development effort that requires extensive testing and performance tuning, as well as a massive amount of time and money,? said Mr. Del Rizzo. ?At this point, our focus is on continued development, testing, and QA of SLI on NVIDIA GeForce-based GPUs and NVIDIA nForce4 SLI-based core-logic solutions, for both AMD and Intel CPUs.?

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/chipsets/display/20051118230455.html

Originally posted by: stnicraliskAre you the next Nvidia advertiser? You sound like a member who was dismissed about a year ago.

"Witch-hunting" is prohibited in this board, and unless you have evidence to back-up your claims, you could potentially be reported to the mods.

 

[Wreckage]

Originally posted by: Nelsieus

Originally posted by: stnicraliskAre you the next Nvidia advertiser? You sound like a member who was dismissed about a year ago.

"Witch-hunting" is prohibited in this board, and unless you have evidence to back-up your claims, you could potentially be reported to the mods.

I wouldn't worry about it, people can say what they want about me. It only makes them more wrong.

 

[NoStateofMind]

Originally posted by: Nelsieus

Originally posted by: stnicralisk
The issue at stake here is that 975X is capable of running the software but that Nvidia has taken it upon themselves to lockout the chipset from having the capability.

There is nothing wrong with keeping their property exclusive to their chipsets. As nVidia states:

?From the extensive, top-to-bottom line up of graphics cards, to a myriad of games, power supplies and other components ? including motherboards ? that make up the SLI ecosystem, SLI is a signifcant development effort that requires extensive testing and performance tuning, as well as a massive amount of time and money,? said Mr. Del Rizzo. ?At this point, our focus is on continued development, testing, and QA of SLI on NVIDIA GeForce-based GPUs and NVIDIA nForce4 SLI-based core-logic solutions, for both AMD and Intel CPUs.?

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/chipsets/display/20051118230455.html

Originally posted by: stnicraliskAre you the next Nvidia advertiser? You sound like a member who was dismissed about a year ago.

"Witch-hunting" is prohibited in this board, and unless you have evidence to back-up your claims, you could potentially be reported to the mods.

Well you don't know Wreckage very well do you? Or do you? Heh, if you read his posts they are always one sided. I would give him the benifit of the doubt otherwise.

nVidia is just trying to reap all the revenue from chipset sales as well as graphics cards. It's business. If I were them, I would do the best I could to retain as much market share as possible, even if "politically incorrect". So, even though I believe they are cheap for doing it, they are only doing what any good business man would.

 

[Keysplayr]

Looks like Mr Fox would like to get a class action law suit going and suck in as many people as he can. Must need a new Mercedes or something.

Mr. Fox. ATI and Nvidia have enough problems right now without you sending a letter to the DoJ don't you think?

 

[Munky]

Originally posted by: Nelsieus
There is nothing wrong with keeping their property exclusive to their chipsets.

By that definition, there'd be nothing wrong if Intel made the C2D exclusive to their chipsets.

As nVidia states:

?From the extensive, top-to-bottom line up of graphics cards, to a myriad of games, power supplies and other components ? including motherboards ? that make up the SLI ecosystem, SLI is a signifcant development effort that requires extensive testing and performance tuning, as well as a massive amount of time and money,? said Mr. Del Rizzo. ?At this point, our focus is on continued development, testing, and QA of SLI on NVIDIA GeForce-based GPUs and NVIDIA nForce4 SLI-based core-logic solutions, for both AMD and Intel CPUs.?

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/chipsets/display/20051118230455.html

Typical marketing BS. SLI does not need a Nvidia chipset to operate, as has already been shown in the past. Games, power supplies, (they forgot SLI memory too, lol) do not fall under Nvidia property, hence need not be included in this BS SLI ecosystem.

 

[Nelsieus]

Originally posted by: munky
By that definition, there'd be nothing wrong if Intel made the C2D exclusive to their chipsets.

It would be the same if nVidia kept their GPUs exclusive to their own chipsets, and that's not the case.

Instead, what you're saying would be comparable to Intel letting users pair two Core 2 Duo processors together, and no, that wouldn't be wrong if they kept that technology exclusive to their chipsets, just like SLI is to nForce.


Nelsieus

 

[josh6079]

I guess the main question is, which would the people rather have? In one hand we have chipset makers limiting multi-GPU functionality only to their corresponding GPU's (e.g. SLI on an nForce chipset). On the other hand we have a lawsuit being organized to prevent such an action, thereby hurting the corporation's profit but also giving more options to the consumer.

Being able to go CrossFire or SLI is something I don't think anyone wouldn't want. So, while I can see why Nvidia would do it I would hope this lawsuit changes things. It would make gaming with the best hardware an easier transistion and offer more flexibility to the gamer. As a consumer / gamer / enthusiast, I just don't see why this is bad news for us?

 

[NoStateofMind]

Originally posted by: josh6079
I guess the main question is, which would the people rather have? In one hand we have chipset makers limiting multi-GPU functionality only to their corresponding GPU's (e.g. SLI on an nForce chipset). On the other hand we have a lawsuit being organized to prevent such an action, thereby hurting the corporation's profit but also giving more options to the consumer.

Being able to go CrossFire or SLI is something I don't think anyone wouldn't want. So, while I can see why Nvidia would do it I would hope this lawsuit changes things. It would make gaming with the best hardware an easier transistion and offer more flexibility to the gamer. As a consumer / gamer / enthusiast, I just don't see why this is bad news for us?

It isn't, I agree 100%.

 

[Zstream]

Keep up the good work!

I hope this changes things for the future.

 

[BFG10K]

But, doesn't ATi do that too? I mean, the 975X chipset can allow CrossFire but what about the 965? 945?

Crossfire will work on 965 and also it'll work on ATi chipsets of course. I don't believe 945 has two PCIe slots.

When questioned about why it doesn't work on nVidia chipsets ATi responded that we should ask nVidia about it, obviously indicating nVidia are locking them out.

nVidia forces you to stay with their chipsets to get SLI while locking out Crossfire and S3's dual GPUs at the same time. That could be classed as anti-competitive behaviour.

"Witch-hunting" is prohibited in this board, and unless you have evidence to back-up your claims, you could potentially be reported to the mods.

Funny, that's what Trollo used to say right before he was banned as an AEG agent.

Instead, what you're saying would be comparable to Intel letting users pair two Core 2 Duo processors together, and no, that wouldn't be wrong if they kept that technology exclusive to their chipsets, just like SLI is to nForce.

Wow. Can you even see the consumer through those green glasses of yours?

 

[Nelsieus]

Originally posted by: josh6079
I guess the main question is, which would the people rather have? In one hand we have chipset makers limiting multi-GPU functionality only to their corresponding GPU's (e.g. SLI on an nForce chipset). On the other hand we have a lawsuit being organized to prevent such an action, thereby hurting the corporation's profit but also giving more options to the consumer.

Being able to go CrossFire or SLI is something I don't think anyone wouldn't want. So, while I can see why Nvidia would do it I would hope this lawsuit changes things. It would make gaming with the best hardware an easier transistion and offer more flexibility to the gamer. As a consumer / gamer / enthusiast, I just don't see why this is bad news for us?

Well, first off, this is far from anything significant, and won't go any farther than the buzz it generates from boards like these. In fact, a lawsuit hasn't even been brought up yet, and probably won't, atleast not on this issue.

But as far as the exclusivity issue, I feel nVidia and ATI should (and actually do) have the right to choose what they offer their technology to or not, atleast on this case. Actually, this stance puts them more at a disadvantage, because anyone who wants an Intel chipset won't be buying 2 nVidia GPUs for SLI, so that's really lost business for nVidia.

In other words, it's a risk for nVidia, but one they have the right to take, and in the end could generate lots of success by sales of their nForce core logic. Meaning the demand for SLI has to be really high, or else they end up loosing out on revenue. It creates incentives, imo, and ultimately is how our system works.

But that's really beside what the OP is arguing. His main allegation is that nVidia didn't adequately inform its consumers that it's product wouldn't be supported on Intel chipsets. This claim doesn't really have merit, though, when you look at things like the "SLI-Ready" campaign which indicates which hardware is certified for SLI, or SLI Zone, which again, lists all the components and requirements for SLI technology. He would have to prove that nVidia mis-characterized, or flat out lied, about its support for Intel chipsets, and being as nVidia came out stating that SLI would not be supported on the Intel chipset, I don't think it'll hold up.

Nelsieus

 

[BFG10K]

He would have to prove that nVidia mis-characterized, or flat out lied, about its support for Intel chipsets, and being as nVidia came out stating that SLI would not be supported on the Intel chipset, I don't think it'll hold up.

You mean like how nVidia claims G80 is Vista Ready yet has no drivers and hence doesn't even function on Vista?

 

[Nelsieus]

Originally posted by: BFG10K
Funny, that's what Trollo used to say right before he was banned as an AEG agent.

If you're trying to imply I'm Rollo, then either put-up or shut-up. Quite frankly, these one-line snikering comments trying to discredit those who you disagree with is getting frivilous, and you have been reported.

Originally posted by: BFG10K
Wow. Can you even see the consumer through those green glasses of yours?

Not sure what that means. But whatever you're trying to say, I still believe if Intel came up with a technology that allowed you to pair two processors together, much like SLI and Crossfire, it would be fine if they wanted to keep it exclusive to their chipsets. Not sure what that has to do with green glasses or not.

Originally posted by: BFG10KYou mean like how nVidia claims G80 is Vista Ready yet has no drivers and hence doesn't even function on Vista?

I think it's quite inappropriate to try and divert this thread. There was a seperate thread for this issue, where we both discussed this issue and respectfully disagreed. So trying to create a flame-war or what not is rather un-neccisary, so I'll abstain from even responding to it.

Nelsieus

 

[n7]

I like this thread for various reasons :thumbsup:

 

[BFG10K]

If you're trying to imply I'm Rollo, then either put-up or shut-up.

No, I'm trying to imply you're behaving like him and I'm not the only one that thinks so.

I still believe if Intel came up with a technology that allowed you to pair two processors together, much like SLI and Crossfire, it would be fine if they wanted to keep it exclusive to their chipsets.

This sort of locking-in practice has long been bad for the consumer and more choice is always better.

I think it's quite inappropriate to try and divert this thread.

I don't think it's inappropriate at all because it further highlights your blatant nVidia bias.

 

[Aikouka]

You included a server-class motherboard to debunc the fact that the first consumer-class motherboard was an nForce chipset?

 

[BFG10K]

You included a server-class motherboard

That's beside the point. The point is that SLI worked on non-SLI chipsets before.

 

[Gstanfor]

I haven't read the entire thread yet, but, frankly, this was something that needed to happen.

Everyone in the industry has behaved in a puerile fashion where PCI-e and multi card scalable graphics solutions are concerned (I was particuarly unimpressed by nvidia purchasing ULi and then refusing to allow *their own IP* to utilise SLi) - and it is high time the nonsense was stomped on from a great height.

We never saw this sort of nonsense with ISA, VESA, PCI, AGP and hopefully we will never see it again.

 

[Nelsieus]

Originally posted by: BFG10K
No, I'm trying to imply you're behaving like him and I'm not the only one that thinks so.

Don't think so. You referenced to him, and that was uncalled for. And I believe Munky is the only other person who feels the same way as you.

Originally posted by: BFG10KI don't think it's inappropriate at all because it further highlights your blatant nVidia bias.

Again, either put-up or shut-up. If excusing lack of Vista drivers for Vista not yet available makes me biased and Trollo, then I think you're irresponsible with your judgment. But that's just my opinion. See, and I didn't even have to make a below-the-belt "but you're a fanATIc..."

I think you've diverted this thread far enough, so if you have further issue with me, either take it up in PM or take it to another thread.

Nelsieus