Going to be picking up a 6spd brz :p

[sgrinavi]

There were three of them at the track today, we followed one for a couple laps - did really well through the turns. It's the new Miata

 

[BigBarney]

There were three of them at the track today, we followed one for a couple laps - did really well through the turns. It's the new Miata

It has a hardtop though

Just also bought a new intake hose and filter.

Will eliminate the sound tube and better HP/mpg with filter.

You guys have to realize 3 HP is like a big amount on something so weak ;-)

 

[Pia]

It bugs me that no one is trying to compete with a smaller, more spartan RWD driver's car that significantly undercuts the Toyobaru price. Think something much like the original MX5 in terms of size and weight, but coupe instead of convertible, and with the manufacturing improvements of the past 25 years. No exotic and costly weight reduction, just refraining from putting unnecessary crap in.

Such a car wouldn't even have to be a niche, balls-out sports car to be marketable. It could be a common-sense commuter vehicle for pretty much anyone who likes "driving" more than "sitting in a car", has no children and does need eight cupholders. If they hit 950kg curb weight it'd be 30% lighter than a Prius. With a small modern engine that would mean fantastic fuel economy in city traffic. Careful aero design would contribute simultaneously to performance and highway fuel economy. Not even attempting to stick in rear seats would give the car good trunk space (optionally, hatchback style) while eliminating the associated weight and manufacturing cost.

 

[JCH13]

It bugs me that no one is trying to compete with a smaller, more spartan RWD driver's car that significantly undercuts the Toyobaru price. Think something much like the original MX5 in terms of size and weight, but coupe instead of convertible, and with the manufacturing improvements of the past 25 years. No exotic and costly weight reduction, just refraining from putting unnecessary crap in.

Such a car wouldn't even have to be a niche, balls-out sports car to be marketable. It could be a common-sense commuter vehicle for pretty much anyone who likes "driving" more than "sitting in a car", has no children and does need eight cupholders. If they hit 950kg curb weight it'd be 30% lighter than a Prius. With a small modern engine that would mean fantastic fuel economy in city traffic. Careful aero design would contribute simultaneously to performance and highway fuel economy. Not even attempting to stick in rear seats would give the car good trunk space (optionally, hatchback style) while eliminating the associated weight and manufacturing cost.

Good luck doing all of that with modern emissions, safety equipment, and crash protection requirements.

The NA Miata had a mass of 940kg and was exactly as you described: no expensive weight reduction, just bare-bones (not even power steering and only 2 speakers). It would be impossible to hit 950kg with all of the required air bags; 5mph bumpers; front, rear, and side crumple zones; added emissions controllers; etc, without resorting to higher-cost weight reduction through light-weight materials.

It might bug you, but it is not at all reasonable to make a car as you describe given Federal requirements.

 

[sgrinavi]

It bugs me that no one is trying to compete with a smaller, more spartan RWD driver's car that significantly undercuts the Toyobaru price. Think something much like the original MX5 in terms of size and weight, but coupe instead of convertible, and with the manufacturing improvements of the past 25 years. No exotic and costly weight reduction, just refraining from putting unnecessary crap in.

Such a car wouldn't even have to be a niche, balls-out sports car to be marketable. It could be a common-sense commuter vehicle for pretty much anyone who likes "driving" more than "sitting in a car", has no children and does need eight cupholders. If they hit 950kg curb weight it'd be 30% lighter than a Prius. With a small modern engine that would mean fantastic fuel economy in city traffic. Careful aero design would contribute simultaneously to performance and highway fuel economy. Not even attempting to stick in rear seats would give the car good trunk space (optionally, hatchback style) while eliminating the associated weight and manufacturing cost.

I think a Smart car is 1600 lbs

 

[BigBarney]

Good luck doing all of that with modern emissions, safety equipment, and crash protection requirements.

The NA Miata had a mass of 940kg and was exactly as you described: no expensive weight reduction, just bare-bones (not even power steering and only 2 speakers). It would be impossible to hit 950kg with all of the required air bags; 5mph bumpers; front, rear, and side crumple zones; added emissions controllers; etc, without resorting to higher-cost weight reduction through light-weight materials.

It might bug you, but it is not at all reasonable to make a car as you describe given Federal requirements.

It's happening, but not for two more years.

GM will be in the game
Honda too

But 950kg isn't achievable at 20K.

And it's very hard to build a business case for 10K vehicles a year

 

[JCH13]

It's happening, but not for two more years.

GM will be in the game
Honda too

But 950kg isn't achievable at 20K.

And it's very hard to build a business case for 10K vehicles a year

I'll believe it when I see it. Are there any press releases from Honda or GM? Or is it just speculation?

Though I am very confused as to why you say "it's happening" but say that "it" as in a light, cheap, sports car, isn't achievable at 20k, which is the whole point. A genuine sports car these days will be cheap or it will be light, not both.

 

[Pia]

Good luck doing all of that with modern emissions, safety equipment, and crash protection requirements.

The NA Miata had a mass of 940kg and was exactly as you described: no expensive weight reduction, just bare-bones (not even power steering and only 2 speakers). It would be impossible to hit 950kg with all of the required air bags; 5mph bumpers; front, rear, and side crumple zones; added emissions controllers; etc, without resorting to higher-cost weight reduction through light-weight materials.

It might bug you, but it is not at all reasonable to make a car as you describe given Federal requirements.

You are right, 950kg is unrealistically low for the size class we're talking about. I didn't spend much thought on it except that it gave me a nice round percentage for the Prius comparison, and had a historical precedent in the MX-5.

After reflection, 1050kg seems like a realistic goal. It's within 100kg of the current MX-5, and Mazda has already announced they are trying to shed about that much for the Mk4 MX-5, due in 2014. Of course it costs something, but I don't believe they would eat a high per-car cost with MX-5 manufacture. Rather, technology and materials have just moved forward enough in the last decade that they are now able to mass-produce a car this much lighter at acceptable cost.

So what I'm thinking about is not more ambitious than what Mazda has already announced they are planning, just a different car. Non-convertible, free of those particular tradeoffs and therefore more practical. More affordable than the MX-5 and the Toyobaru. Not as much power, but similar level of handling and feel? OK. Lack of little vanity and convenience features totally acceptable. "Only 2 speakers"? I actually think a significant portion of all car buyers wouldn't care. Interior consists of matte plastic without decorations? Fine... actually, I'd prefer that at any price.

 

[JCH13]

We'll see when the ND Miata comes out.

Keep in mind that the car you want probably doesn't have a market large enough to justify all of the overhead and NR expenses.

 

[RedArmy]

The most spartan car interior I ever drove/rode in was a Lotus Elise. It was a blast to drive and be in...for a short period of time. No anything, everything was just bare metal, radio was an option. There is no way on this planet I could have a car like that as a DD unless there was a magical place where all parking lots had gradually increasing pavements for entrances/exits and roads never had potholes.

I have no idea how my friend lived with it as long as he did. He got it for a killer price and it had low miles, but my god, it lost it's fun factor after a while.

 

[nerp]

Yep. There's a reason old people drive Crown Vics. By that time, we've realized that everything else is too loud, noisy, smelly, uncomfortable and who needs to go fast when you're just Sunday driving?