Gods will

[RichardE]

So many many christians I have walked into always say things like "god is doing this, we cannot question him"

My answer and question to that is

Why do you think God's will is to allow suffering? Perhaps this is god's answer to the millions of prayers to help (insert relative here) when they were dying. God does not come down and magically heal people, he helps people through others. Who is to say God did not use these scientists to help these people. If little sally asks God to cure his mom of MS and a doctor does it through Stem Cell research, would that not be a miracle? The hand of god does not come down from the clouds to help people.

Why do people think God wants people to suffer? Why do people not think that perhaps the advancement of science is the work of god in answer to all those prayers to end suffering?

 

[Kadarin]

Given that there is no objective evidence whatsoever to support the existence of God, there is no way to objectively determine what God's "will" might be for any given situation.

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: Astaroth33
Given that there is no objective evidence whatsoever to support the existence of God, there is no way to objectively determine what God's "will" might be for any given situation.

Thre also is no objective evidence whatsoever to support the non - existence of God.

 

[Kadarin]

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda

Originally posted by: Astaroth33
Given that there is no objective evidence whatsoever to support the existence of God, there is no way to objectively determine what God's "will" might be for any given situation.

Thre also is no objective evidence whatsoever to support the non - existence of God.

True, as far as I know, but not relevant to the point raised by the OP.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda

Originally posted by: Astaroth33
Given that there is no objective evidence whatsoever to support the existence of God, there is no way to objectively determine what God's "will" might be for any given situation.

Thre also is no objective evidence whatsoever to support the non - existence of the FSM.

fixed

 

[Mean MrMustard]

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda

Originally posted by: Astaroth33
Given that there is no objective evidence whatsoever to support the existence of God, there is no way to objectively determine what God's "will" might be for any given situation.

Thre also is no objective evidence whatsoever to support the non - existence of God.

Name one time in the history of all things that a negative has been proven.

All burden rests on proving the positive.

 

[fitzov]

Well, if God is all-powerful then he allows things that are bad to happen. This implies He is not all-good.

 

[GoPackGo]

its called free will...watch bruce almighty...its amazingly insightful.

 

[hellokeith]

Originally posted by: RichardE
So many many christians I have walked into always say things like "god is doing this, we cannot question him"

Have you truthfully met many many Christians? And are they really saying "God is doing this, we cannot question him".

The reason I ask is because I'm a Christian, and I haven't met many many other Christians, and the ones I have met rarely said a single word about God's will.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: hellokeith

Originally posted by: RichardE
So many many christians I have walked into always say things like "god is doing this, we cannot question him"

Have you truthfully met many many Christians? And are they really saying "God is doing this, we cannot question him".

The reason I ask is because I'm a Christian, and I haven't met many many other Christians, and the ones I have met rarely said a single word about God's will.

I've met all kinds of "Christians", just not too many who actually practice what they preach.

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: hellokeith

Originally posted by: RichardE
So many many christians I have walked into always say things like "god is doing this, we cannot question him"

Have you truthfully met many many Christians? And are they really saying "God is doing this, we cannot question him".

The reason I ask is because I'm a Christian, and I haven't met many many other Christians, and the ones I have met rarely said a single word about God's will.

I saw it a bunch growing up (usually in the "because it is God's will" form), I was sent to a pretty strict Lutheran grade school. I was also told, to my face in front of my the rest of our 8th grade class, that I was going to hell because I was baptized Greek Orthodox.

 

[GoPackGo]

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: hellokeith

Originally posted by: RichardE
So many many christians I have walked into always say things like "god is doing this, we cannot question him"

Have you truthfully met many many Christians? And are they really saying "God is doing this, we cannot question him".

The reason I ask is because I'm a Christian, and I haven't met many many other Christians, and the ones I have met rarely said a single word about God's will.

I saw it a bunch growing up (usually in the "because it is God's will" form), I was sent to a pretty strict Lutheran grade school. I was also told, to my face in front of my the rest of our 8th grade class, that I was going to hell because I was baptized Greek Orthodox.

Thats just lutheran hell...where the hotdish is cold and the beer is warm.

 

[K1052]

Originally posted by: GoPackGo

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: hellokeith

Originally posted by: RichardE
So many many christians I have walked into always say things like "god is doing this, we cannot question him"

Have you truthfully met many many Christians? And are they really saying "God is doing this, we cannot question him".

The reason I ask is because I'm a Christian, and I haven't met many many other Christians, and the ones I have met rarely said a single word about God's will.

I saw it a bunch growing up (usually in the "because it is God's will" form), I was sent to a pretty strict Lutheran grade school. I was also told, to my face in front of my the rest of our 8th grade class, that I was going to hell because I was baptized Greek Orthodox.

Thats just lutheran hell...where the hotdish is cold and the beer is warm.

and the Catholics have used up all the sauerkraut.

 

[GoPackGo]

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: GoPackGo

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: hellokeith

Originally posted by: RichardE
So many many christians I have walked into always say things like "god is doing this, we cannot question him"

Have you truthfully met many many Christians? And are they really saying "God is doing this, we cannot question him".

The reason I ask is because I'm a Christian, and I haven't met many many other Christians, and the ones I have met rarely said a single word about God's will.

I saw it a bunch growing up (usually in the "because it is God's will" form), I was sent to a pretty strict Lutheran grade school. I was also told, to my face in front of my the rest of our 8th grade class, that I was going to hell because I was baptized Greek Orthodox.

Thats just lutheran hell...where the hotdish is cold and the beer is warm.

and the Catholics have used up all the sauerkraut.

Nope..its where the sauerkraut has gone good and is just cabbage again.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

Originally posted by: GoPackGo
its called free will...watch bruce almighty...its amazingly insightful.

Here's a tip: When you're taking your theological cues from a Jim Carey movie, you're probably not standing on the most rational philosophical foundation.

In a world with an omnipotent being, nothing that happens can be contrary to that being's will. Free will is at best an illusion.

 

[GoPackGo]

Originally posted by: Garth

Originally posted by: GoPackGo
its called free will...watch bruce almighty...its amazingly insightful.

Here's a tip: When you're taking your theological cues from a Jim Carey movie, you're probably not standing on the most rational philosophical foundation.

In a world with an omnipotent being, nothing that happens can be contrary to that being's will. Free will is at best an illusion.

No...its a Morgan Freeman movie where Jim Carey happens to be in it.

Now you see my way of thinking?

 

[Pens1566]

Originally posted by: fitzov
Well, if God is all-powerful then he allows things that are bad to happen. This implies He is not all-good.

Right with you.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

Originally posted by: GoPackGo

Originally posted by: Garth

Originally posted by: GoPackGo
its called free will...watch bruce almighty...its amazingly insightful.

Here's a tip: When you're taking your theological cues from a Jim Carey movie, you're probably not standing on the most rational philosophical foundation.

In a world with an omnipotent being, nothing that happens can be contrary to that being's will. Free will is at best an illusion.

No...its a Morgan Freeman movie where Jim Carey happens to be in it.

Now you see my way of thinking?

I get the feeling that "thinking" is not your specialty.

 

[GoPackGo]

Originally posted by: Garth

Originally posted by: GoPackGo

Originally posted by: Garth

Originally posted by: GoPackGo
its called free will...watch bruce almighty...its amazingly insightful.

Here's a tip: When you're taking your theological cues from a Jim Carey movie, you're probably not standing on the most rational philosophical foundation.

In a world with an omnipotent being, nothing that happens can be contrary to that being's will. Free will is at best an illusion.

No...its a Morgan Freeman movie where Jim Carey happens to be in it.

Now you see my way of thinking?

I get the feeling that "thinking" is not your specialty.

I get the feeling that you don't like to have fun. Lighten up a little.

 

[Abe Froman]

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: GoPackGo

Originally posted by: K1052

Originally posted by: hellokeith

Originally posted by: RichardE
So many many christians I have walked into always say things like "god is doing this, we cannot question him"

Have you truthfully met many many Christians? And are they really saying "God is doing this, we cannot question him".

The reason I ask is because I'm a Christian, and I haven't met many many other Christians, and the ones I have met rarely said a single word about God's will.

I saw it a bunch growing up (usually in the "because it is God's will" form), I was sent to a pretty strict Lutheran grade school. I was also told, to my face in front of my the rest of our 8th grade class, that I was going to hell because I was baptized Greek Orthodox.

Thats just lutheran hell...where the hotdish is cold and the beer is warm.

and the Catholics have used up all the sauerkraut.

And served it up with a side of steamy guilt!

 

[RichardE]

Originally posted by: hellokeith

Originally posted by: RichardE
So many many christians I have walked into always say things like "god is doing this, we cannot question him"

Have you truthfully met many many Christians? And are they really saying "God is doing this, we cannot question him".

The reason I ask is because I'm a Christian, and I haven't met many many other Christians, and the ones I have met rarely said a single word about God's will.

Actually, yes. I attend a church here in London as well as volunteer with its youth groups. That is the excuse everyone, and the other churches I have come in contact with give. You ask what you can pray for, they tell you. Than you talk about, and it is always "It is god's will though, everything has a reason ect ect".

 

[fitzov]

In a world with an omnipotent being, nothing that happens can be contrary to that being's will. Free will is at best an illusion.

God's omnipotence doesn't conflict with our having free will, it's the all-good AND all-powerful properties that conflict with the fact that there is badness in the world.

 

[beyoku]

I will attempt to actually answer the question. People saying "Its Gods Will" is the easy answer to things. IN order to know WHAT "Gods Will" IS.......you would have to study the bible. The start of the "Lords Prayer" - a template or outline that Jesus instructed his followers to use says:

Our Father, who art in heaven,
Hallowed be thy Name.
Let Thy kingdom come.
Let Thy will be done,
On earth as it is in heaven.

Gods "Will" being done on Earth points to a future prophecy about the earth and the end of it, resurrecion, 1000 year reign, etc. ("New heavens and new earth for the fromer things have passed away)

Although this has nothing to do with Suffering NOW. The "Will" of God and the coming of the "Kingdom of God" - ("The Kingdom that would crush and put and end to all other Kingdoms and rull to times Indefinite") Is THE MAJOR THEME OF THE BIBLE. So its all tied in together.

As the example: In the suffering of Job, Job was inflicted with boils, disease, and wiped of his possesions and family killed by Satan. All because Satan told God that Job only worshiped him because of of the things GOd provided......God let Satan "Test" Job. He could do anything except for kill Job. Job stayed faithful and proved Satan wrong even though Job thought that GOD was punishing him and not Satan (Job to God: In Sheol you should conceal my sould until your rath turns away from me) In the end God was right BUT God allowed all humans to be tested again. So its the same example just on a larger scale with everybody.

It is to note, that God created the world but Satan is CURRENTY the "Ruler of the System of things." Remeber it was Satan that tempted Jesus and offered to him "All the kingdoms of the world in exchange for 1 act of obedience" Satan could offer because he controls it.

NOTE: This is the answer if you actually believe in God and the Christian bible. It is not as simple as this either but....... Also, I am for the most part going off the top of my head. I dont have time to post any scriptures, sorry...But the quotes are exact i think.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

Originally posted by: fitzov

In a world with an omnipotent being, nothing that happens can be contrary to that being's will. Free will is at best an illusion.

God's omnipotence doesn't conflict with our having free will, it's the all-good AND all-powerful properties that conflict with the fact that there is badness in the world.

Implicit in the stipulation of omnipotence is infallible foreknowledge. Specifically, it is infallible foreknowledge that is incompatible with free will.

 

[fitzov]

Originally posted by: Garth

Originally posted by: fitzov

In a world with an omnipotent being, nothing that happens can be contrary to that being's will. Free will is at best an illusion.

God's omnipotence doesn't conflict with our having free will, it's the all-good AND all-powerful properties that conflict with the fact that there is badness in the world.

Implicit in the stipulation of omnipotence is infallible foreknowledge. Specifically, it is infallible foreknowledge that is incompatible with free will.

I think it's fairly clear that the God of Abraham doesn't have knowledge of the future--look at all the mistakes He made that had to be corrected. Throughout the Bible are stories where we screw something up and are punished for it--either by God himself or through his creation.