God wants to schedule a one-to-one appt. with you...

[Ruptga]

I'm still not saying that's categorically false, but if we see a flipped over box, you decide there is a rubber duck under the box, and we flip it over to find nothing, you would be flat out wrong. Barring bizarre circumstances or a trick, there was no duck that suddenly disappeared, it just wasn't there and you were wrong about that provable fact. There are plenty of unprovable things though, and from one way of looking at it we are all free to choose our own reality on those topics.

 

[sandorski]

Are you now the arbiter of what is real? Or, do you just like dancing in circles?

"Belief" has no Evidential value. Even You will agree with this.

 

[ch33zw1z]

I am not the one with a "holier -than -thou " attitude.
I am not trying to win souls.
Your opinion on what is Christ -like is not important.
You have trolled from the very beginning.
You are not nearly as good playing word games as you think you are.
You are boring me.
"It's an internet forum, get over it."

Giving up? good. My opinion of what is Christ like was formed from the Bible itself. Yes, you heard me right. I spent 15 years as a Christian. You have some studying to do, it's time to start practicing what you preach. Otherwise, see you in hell.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

I'm sorry ch33zw1z that after 15 years you never learned salvation is neither an agreement or bargain. Please do a little more studying.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

"Belief" has no Evidential value. Even You will agree with this.

In who's court?

 

[ch33zw1z]

I'm sorry ch33zw1z that after 15 years you never learned salvation is neither an agreement or bargain. Please do a little more studying.

I'm sorry Magnus that you think cheap grace is going to get you into heaven. I'll save you a warm seat.

 

[Ruptga]

"Belief" has no Evidential value. Even You will agree with this.

That's actually the exact opposite of what he's arguing, so good luck with that. He still hasn't tried to disprove my example, but if he ever gets around to it he'll probably say that it proves nothing because all experience is subjective. For him that is simply an a priori fact. It's purely philosophical, since his continued existence is proof that he deigns to share our reality by obeying traffic signals and feeding himself, but it's still not something he's likely to change his mind about.

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

I'm still not saying that's categorically false, but if we see a flipped over box, you decide there is a rubber duck under the box, and we flip it over to find nothing, you would be flat out wrong. Barring bizarre circumstances or a trick, there was no duck that suddenly disappeared, it just wasn't there and you were wrong about that provable fact. There are plenty of unprovable things though, and from one way of looking at it we are all free to choose our own reality on those topics.

Your example is the essence of what is so limiting to those who can not admit the possibility of a power beyond their understanding and beyond the logical constructs (boxes) of their experience. As I said before people do indeed choose their own reality. Unfortunately, those who decide not to take a leap of faith, believe they have no choice. The very same kind of circular logic they find fault with believers for, limits their own experience. Belief isn't the antithesis of logic, it is the freedom to experience something new, creative and, spiritual.

 

[Ruptga]

To quote a great philosopher of our time, fuckin magnets are a power beyond my understanding, but I don't dismiss them because I see their effects and their effects are consistent (i.e. testable).

Also I fully realize I have a choice to act arationally, in fact I do so every time I set a goal or enjoy a creature comfort. But, I'm not going to waste time chasing after some god that wants to play hide and seek. If they really cared they'd come out into the open instead of playing games with my eternal fate. I have plenty of problems of my own to tend to, I don't need to add their BS to the list. Like I said before, a god worthy of the title doesn't need an appointment.

 

[ThinClient]

"Assertion without evidence can be dismissed without evidence." -Hitchens

 

[MagnusTheBrewer]

To quote a great philosopher of our time, fuckin magnets are a power beyond my understanding, but I don't dismiss them because I see their effects and their effects are consistent (i.e. testable).

Also I fully realize I have a choice to act arationally, in fact I do so every time I set a goal or enjoy a creature comfort. But, I'm not going to waste time chasing after some god that wants to play hide and seek. If they really cared they'd come out into the open instead of playing games with my eternal fate. I have plenty of problems of my own to tend to, I don't need to add their BS to the list. Like I said before, a god worthy of the title doesn't need an appointment.

How is God playing hide and seek? By not coming when you call? You seem angry or, at least upset, with the notion that a greater being wouldn't play by your rules. God is present in all things if you choose to see. This was simply a "what if ." The question itself has no value, nor the reason for posting it, other than as a point of discussion.

The value of threads like this that don't degenerate totally into sandboxes for trolls, is the possibility of finding new questions to ask and different perspectives to explore.

 

[Ruptga]

I am irritated with the ever-popular notion that all I have to do to meet God is to want to. That's ludicrous, otherwise they would have come down for a chat when I was in highschool.

When you're dealing with a two or three year old kid do you talk to them the same way as you would a young adult? Odds are quite good you don't, you talk to them in ways they can understand, in words they can comprehend. Why then do gods apparently only communicate through dreams, moving hymns, and hallucinations? If they were really trying to communicate clearly they'd just talk, or at least leave a letter on my desk from time to time. But that sort of thing hasn't happened, so as best I can tell religious experiences and the will of God are completely indistinguishable from emotional highs and our subconscious desires and intuitions.

 

[disappoint]

To quote a great philosopher of our time, fuckin magnets are a power beyond my understanding, but I don't dismiss them because I see their effects and their effects are consistent (i.e. testable).

Who said that? When? We understand magnets now, we really do. Even boiled, fried and barbequed.