God, please let a car manufacturer build a budget Japanese sedan with RWD

[VooDooAddict]

<b>My guess is that you'd be happiest placing an order for a BMW 135i with no options. Yes it's a Coupe, but with usable back seats.</B>

As others have said, They don't make them because the don't see a market for them. It's only an option on the luxury cars because they are already in a higher price point.

Don't know your price range... but... You could grab Pre-owned:
- Lexus IS
- BMW 3s with sport suspension. --- (Try @ '97 - Test drove one on a whim.)

New:
- Order yourself a BMW 135i with no options. (Dealer will bitch and moan, but they'll do it.)
- Mazda RX8, a touch more practicality then other sports cars with the rear half doors.

<b> Comes down to a few questions: What's your price range? What do you really want to do with it? Coupe or Sedan(Saloon)? </B>

 

[lurk3r]

Originally posted by: BouZouki

Originally posted by: RichUK

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: RichUK


It annoys me when people harp on about FWD cars and "massive" torque steer. Unless you?re blasting over 300 ponies through the front wheels, it?s completely manageable.

You have clearly never driven an MS3 or TL.

I suppose you could call it "manageable," but I find it annoying to have to fight the wheel to keep the car straight every time I jam the go pedal.

A friend of mine owns an Astra VXR with over 300hp (2 Litre Turbo, FWD), and you can manage the torque steer with one hand on the steering wheel quite easily - Then again, different cars, different characteristics.

Wheres the video of the TL beating the G35 and other RWD japanese cars in its class around the track?

-You're exaggerating, I've driven the TL and its no were near unmanageable. Barely noticeable, at least it was to me.

I'll second the lack of torque steer on the TL, never driven the MS3, it's way too small for me. The TL had a barely noticeable tug, nothing like the Malibu (worst car on the road imo), which will nearly break your knuckles as it jams the wheel 3/4 of a turn to the left when the car shifts down.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero

Originally posted by: RichUK

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: RichUK


It annoys me when people harp on about FWD cars and "massive" torque steer. Unless you?re blasting over 300 ponies through the front wheels, it?s completely manageable.

You have clearly never driven an MS3 or TL.

I suppose you could call it "manageable," but I find it annoying to have to fight the wheel to keep the car straight every time I jam the go pedal.

A friend of mine owns an Astra VXR with over 300hp (2 Litre Turbo, FWD), and you can manage the torque steer with one hand on the steering wheel quite easily - Then again, different cars, different characteristics.

Try that on a bend or on uneven tarmac and get back to me. unless it has a trick diff expect to meet the hedge for Tea.

Heh. Gotta love the way you Brits speak.


Anyway, to another poster, I didn't say it was unmanageable. In fact, I clearly said that it is manageable. What I called was annoying, and that's no exaggeration.

FWD has other performance disadvantages as well. Understeer probably being the worst of them. In RWD and (properly-tuned) AWD, you can use the throttle to tighten the car through a turn. Use the engine torque to preload the suspension at turn-in and then jam on through. Try that with FWD and you're gonna get intimate with the guardrail.

I don't hate FWD. It does the job and then some.

 

[DivideBYZero]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero

Originally posted by: RichUK

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: RichUK


It annoys me when people harp on about FWD cars and "massive" torque steer. Unless you?re blasting over 300 ponies through the front wheels, it?s completely manageable.

You have clearly never driven an MS3 or TL.

I suppose you could call it "manageable," but I find it annoying to have to fight the wheel to keep the car straight every time I jam the go pedal.

A friend of mine owns an Astra VXR with over 300hp (2 Litre Turbo, FWD), and you can manage the torque steer with one hand on the steering wheel quite easily - Then again, different cars, different characteristics.

Try that on a bend or on uneven tarmac and get back to me. unless it has a trick diff expect to meet the hedge for Tea.

Heh. Gotta love the way you Brits speak.


Anyway, to another poster, I didn't say it was unmanageable. In fact, I clearly said that it is manageable. What I called was annoying, and that's no exaggeration.

FWD has other performance disadvantages as well. Understeer probably being the worst of them. In RWD and (properly-tuned) AWD, you can use the throttle to tighten the car through a turn. Use the engine torque to preload the suspension at turn-in and then jam on through. Try that with FWD and you're gonna get intimate with the guardrail.

I don't hate FWD. It does the job and then some.

You have a point with RWD oversteer, but if you're on a track in a FWD car you can use lift off oversteer to gain similar results. Not as elegant, but it's a similar effect. My Gen 4 Civic was good for that!

 

[RichUK]

Originally posted by: BouZouki

Originally posted by: RichUK

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: RichUK


It annoys me when people harp on about FWD cars and "massive" torque steer. Unless you?re blasting over 300 ponies through the front wheels, it?s completely manageable.

You have clearly never driven an MS3 or TL.

I suppose you could call it "manageable," but I find it annoying to have to fight the wheel to keep the car straight every time I jam the go pedal.

A friend of mine owns an Astra VXR with over 300hp (2 Litre Turbo, FWD), and you can manage the torque steer with one hand on the steering wheel quite easily - Then again, different cars, different characteristics.

Wheres the video of the TL beating the G35 and other RWD japanese cars in its class around the track?

-You're exaggerating, I've driven the TL and its no were near unmanageable. Barely noticeable, at least it was to me.

Is this response meant for me?

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: DivideBYZero
You have a point with RWD oversteer, but if you're on a track in a FWD car you can use lift off oversteer to gain similar results. Not as elegant, but it's a similar effect. My Gen 4 Civic was good for that!

That works, yes, but it's not quite the same as you have to scrub speed to do it.

I've owned a few sporty FWDs: 2nd gen CRX Si and 3rd gen Integra GSR among them. It's not that I hate FWD, or can't recognize its abilities, it's just that I don't see it as the "big leagues."

 

[DarkThinker]

YES a Manual RWD V6 Acura TL-S would be the perfect car for me......I just wish.....by the time I finish my degrees if no such thing exists I will blow my money on a fancy shmansy 5 series and I will love it....but the only thing that would stop is a RWD manual Acura TL-S...I just love that car.

 

[GoatMonkey]

Originally posted by: BouZouki

Originally posted by: RichUK

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: RichUK


It annoys me when people harp on about FWD cars and "massive" torque steer. Unless you?re blasting over 300 ponies through the front wheels, it?s completely manageable.

You have clearly never driven an MS3 or TL.

I suppose you could call it "manageable," but I find it annoying to have to fight the wheel to keep the car straight every time I jam the go pedal.

A friend of mine owns an Astra VXR with over 300hp (2 Litre Turbo, FWD), and you can manage the torque steer with one hand on the steering wheel quite easily - Then again, different cars, different characteristics.

Wheres the video of the TL beating the G35 and other RWD japanese cars in its class around the track?

-You're exaggerating, I've driven the TL and its no were near unmanageable. Barely noticeable, at least it was to me.

Of course the TL doesn't have much torque steer... it doesn't have much torque.

I don't want to put the TL down. I'm seriously considering buying one soon actually. But it only has something like 233 ft-lbs I think, and that's at 5000 rpm. In regular driving you'd have to really try. TLs no doubt have excellent handling, but it could be even better with a 50/50 weight distribution. So could braking distances.

RWD and AWD have the advantage of weight distribution and the ability to get into the power earlier when going through a curve. A well designed FWD car can do great at those things as you can see from the TL example you gave, or other cars like the GTI or MazdaSpeed3, as long as they're not too powerful for the weight on their wheels.

Car companies have gotten better an engineering around the high power to the front wheels problem, even now it gets to a point that they generally don't try to cross a certain power to weight ratio on FWD cars. The upper limits are much higher in RWD and AWD cars. They can put together fun little FWD cars, with good value, and space utilization, but the cars will still not be able to handle as much power going through the wheels as a RWD or AWD car.

There's a reason that the serious race cars out there are not FWD.

Yes, I have seen the front drive drag race cars. They have custom setups designed to keep the front wheels on the ground in a straight line.