God did NOT create the Universe, says Stephen Hawking

[Caveman]

I just find it hard to believe that some all-powerful/supposedly 'loving' God would allow me to sit here on the internet chatting with you fine fellows while stuffing my face with a $5 footlong I got from Subway a few minutes ago. At the same time some 9 year old girl is starving in Africa and hiding out hoping that she doesn't get gang raped by militants wielding machetes and throwaway automatic weapons while she's out trying to pick berries or some shit just so she doesnt die from starvation like her older brother who was taking care of her after her parents were murdered by the dudes with machetes when she was 4.

At least that's how I feel about it.

Instead of blaming God for the world's ills, isn't it more logical to assume he (if he exists) gave humans free will and that our use of it has fostered injustice? Perhaps if we were to yield to his ways our world would be good. Have you ever just pondered the 10 commandments? The first 4 may be inexplicable to us, but certainly any rational human being can see the wisdom and beauty of the moral code outline in the last 6... Maybe the world would be so much better if everyone followed this code?

 

[sandorski]

One side says LAWS OF PHYSICS
Other side says God

and they both throw each of those things around as how the universe came into existence. Why can't in a sense God = Laws of Physics?

I think in this sense the way that people speak about it it is.. due to god the universe came into existence" no no "it's because of gravity...the laws of physics." I think on some level its kind of very similar if not the same thing.

The only difference in between the two is that the laws of physics don't make you worship them and god does, but neither seems to be affected by our worship or discovery (or lack of), the benefit or not benefit seems only for us.

In a sense, sure, you could say that. However, in another sense that still gives credibility to something with No Evidence at all.

 

[Crono]

Instead of blaming God for the world's ills, isn't it more logical to assume he (if he exists) gave humans free will and that our use of it has fostered injustice? Perhaps if we were to yield to his ways our world would be good. Have you ever just pondered the 10 commandments? The first 4 may be inexplicable to us, but certainly any rational human being can see the wisdom and beauty of the moral code outline in the last 6... Maybe the world would be so much better if everyone followed this code?

Logical reasoning - so easy a Caveman can do it

 

[sandorski]

I don't think he's an idiot, but I think he's lost his edge in recent years. He just seems to be grasping at straws and coming up with stuff that isn't of any relevance. Like the alien thing a while back, and now this.

I also think a good portion of what he has done will eventually be proven wrong.

There was nothing wrong or even strange with what he said regarding Aliens. He was right in fact. It would be like the Aztecs sending a Message out blindly to the rest of the World long before the Spanish even considered sailing West. They would have just got their Ass kicked earlier.

 

[sandorski]

Instead of blaming God for the world's ills, isn't it more logical to assume he (if he exists) gave humans free will and that our use of it has fostered injustice? Perhaps if we were to yield to his ways our world would be good. Have you ever just pondered the 10 commandments? The first 4 may be inexplicable to us, but certainly any rational human being can see the wisdom and beauty of the moral code outline in the last 6... Maybe the world would be so much better if everyone followed this code?

Possibly, but not the Religious concept of Free Will. Which is not Free Will at all.

How our use of Free Will creates Disease and/or Natural Calamity eludes me.

 

[PhineasJWhoopee]

I wonder how many people care what Steven Hawking believes anyway.

 

[Cerpin Taxt]

Instead of blaming God for the world's ills, isn't it more logical to assume he (if he exists) gave humans free will and that our use of it has fostered injustice?

Not usually, since there are usually unstated (or even explicit) premises that God abhors the world's ills and has unlimited power to prevent them.

Perhaps if we were to yield to his ways our world would be good.

Why must we "yield" to an allegedly omnipotent being? He does whatever he wants, yielding or no.

Have you ever just pondered the 10 commandments? The first 4 may be inexplicable to us, but certainly any rational human being can see the wisdom and beauty of the moral code outline in the last 6... Maybe the world would be so much better if everyone followed this code?

Perhaps, but they don't seem particularly unique or divinely inspired.

 

[darkswordsman17]

I don't think he's an idiot, but I think he's lost his edge in recent years. He just seems to be grasping at straws and coming up with stuff that isn't of any relevance. Like the alien thing a while back, and now this.

I also think a good portion of what he has done will eventually be proven wrong.

Grasping at straws? Kinda senseless since he's just postulating ideas for consideration and his thoughts on them, so he's grasping at straws that he has to first imagine. This particular subject is actually right in line with much of his other work so I have no idea what you mean he's lost his edge.

There was a lecture posted on here a while back that I think explains his reasoning on this. It was part of some pretty heady stuff that they're theorizing about the universe that has a pretty significant impact on how we view things.

As for this specifically, the new idea is that the components that made up what became the universe would have made the the universe on their own via interacting with the other parts, no need for a god-being for our universe to have been created.

I don't know that this really changes much in the god debate, but when combined with the other new ideas about the universe (more or less they fit together like a puzzle), its fairly profound as far as what scientists really care about (gaining understanding).

I don't really think most are trying to find/prove/disprove god, so they're not thinking much along those lines. Gods are kinda just placeholders for things we can't explain, understand, or really logically think about, and as we learn more, they're going to appear less and less (in those roles). God-beings existing or not is actually irrelevant to the situation we know of thus far in that they could still exist, but there's seemingly nothing that had to have been impacted directly by them for our current situation to exist.

I guess it could be considered along the lines of evolution vs creationism. With this new idea, its like evolution in that it doesn't really postulate anything beyond the idea there's no need for direct interaction from a god-being for this to have come about, whereas if you were of the mind that god did it, then yeah, it'd kinda say that's wrong.

 

[rhino56]

I was wondering what happens to people who can't masturbate. They end up at the beginning of the universe instead of the end of the internet.

 

[cKGunslinger]

I can't believe I had to create somthing like this myself. You, The Internet, have failed me.

 

[sandorski]

I can't believe I had to create somthing like this myself. You, The Internet, have failed me.

lol nice

 

[Howard]

I wonder how many people care what Steven Hawking believes anyway.

Probably a lot.

 

[Fritzo]

Probably a lot.

Yeah, seeing as his ideas about black holes propelled astrophysics into a new age.

 

[disappoint]

And we respond with, "Your documentation of your engineering work is just plain horrific."

lol do you usually send documentation to your creations?

 

[Jeff7]

lol do you usually send documentation to your creations?

If I had sentient creations which might be curious about this kind of stuff, and which might bring harm or eternal damnation upon themselves due to this curiosity, yeah, I might let them know a few genuinely important things.

 

[caddlad]

I wonder how many people care what Steven Hawking believes anyway.

Mostly just those harboring a sense if scientific curiosity.

 

[Malak]

If I had sentient creations which might be curious about this kind of stuff, and which might bring harm or eternal damnation upon themselves due to this curiosity, yeah, I might let them know a few genuinely important things.

That which brings harm is already wired into your head. Poor choices don't come from ignorance, they come from intention.

 

[Jeff7]

That which brings harm is already wired into your head. Poor choices don't come from ignorance, they come from intention.

So if I pick up a venomous snake, without knowing that it's venomous, it's because of my intention of picking up a snake that I get a lethal dose?
If I touch a blue-ringed octopus and get a hit of venom, that's also intention?
If I decide to study an interesting rock, and end up dying of radiation poisoning because it's uranium, and no one had yet discovered radiation, that's due to intention?

Plenty of stuff out there can kill you because you don't know that it's dangerous, or that it's even there. I don't know how that stuff can be considered "intention," unless "curious exploration" or "just walking around" can be considered as some intention of seeking personal harm.

 

[Malak]

So if I pick up a venomous snake, without knowing that it's venomous, it's because of my intention of picking up a snake that I get a lethal dose?
If I touch a blue-ringed octopus and get a hit of venom, that's also intention?
If I decide to study an interesting rock, and end up dying of radiation poisoning because it's uranium, and no one had yet discovered radiation, that's due to intention?

Plenty of stuff out there can kill you because you don't know that it's dangerous, or that it's even there. I don't know how that stuff can be considered "intention," unless "curious exploration" or "just walking around" can be considered as some intention of seeking personal harm.

You aren't going to hell for picking up a rock. But you might get laughed at for being dumb enough to pick up a snake. Curiosity is not excuse enough to just grab things with your hands.

 

[Jeff7]

You aren't going to hell for picking up a rock. But you might get laughed at for being dumb enough to pick up a snake. Curiosity is not excuse enough to just grab things with your hands.

Why's that? God didn't tell us about some fairly important things, such as the vast variety of ways in which nature constantly tries to kill us.

We had to discover that stuff on our own.



Following God's example would be like letting a toddler lose in the kitchen would be considered negligent. "Oh, you tried drinking drain cleaner while exploring the oven? Wow, that sucks. Stupid kids and their curiosity." But you'd tell the toddler not to kill anyone, and make damn sure he doesn't worship any other deities. Everything else....he'll figure it out. Assuming he survives.

 

[Mr. Pedantic]

So if I pick up a venomous snake, without knowing that it's venomous, it's because of my intention of picking up a snake that I get a lethal dose?
If I touch a blue-ringed octopus and get a hit of venom, that's also intention?
If I decide to study an interesting rock, and end up dying of radiation poisoning because it's uranium, and no one had yet discovered radiation, that's due to intention?

Plenty of stuff out there can kill you because you don't know that it's dangerous, or that it's even there. I don't know how that stuff can be considered "intention," unless "curious exploration" or "just walking around" can be considered as some intention of seeking personal harm.

Making a choice that kills you because you have insufficient information isn't a 'bad choice', per se. I mean, it's bad, in that it will kill you. But it's not bad, in that you're not stupid because you made that decision with the information you had.

 

[Malak]

Following God's example would be like letting a toddler lose in the kitchen would be considered negligent. "Oh, you tried drinking drain cleaner while exploring the oven? Wow, that sucks. Stupid kids and their curiosity." But you'd tell the toddler not to kill anyone, and make damn sure he doesn't worship any other deities. Everything else....he'll figure it out. Assuming he survives.

No, it's like leaving a full grown adult in a kitchen. Why do you insist in acting like a baby, grabbing everything and putting it in your mouth?