rpanic
Golden Member
- Dec 1, 2006
- 1,896
- 7
- 81
So you are now going from concentration camps to border security, big change there.
They should have very limited rights if any since they shouldn?t be here in the first place; nothing inhuman with sending them home for free its better than what they would get from their country.
Why should tax dollars be spent on them bogging down the courts time?
I wonder if america has any duty to accept hundreds of thousands of iraqis who wish to flee their country.
In America, the right to do those things to illegals is reserved for the employers who hire them here. You and I are not allowed to do it. We aren't deep enough in the gubmints pockets.
While they may be at an extreme, unfortunately there is precedent. We've rounded up hundreds of innocent people, some of the even citizens, denied them due process, and have stuck them in the equivalent of 'concentration camps'. I'm not only talking about our current situation, this was also done in WWII, and in other times within our history.
When you have some politicians talking about rounding up illegals and mass deportations, I see the same kind of parallels to other such 'incidents' in our history. Every person with a certain 'hispanic' look or surname would be a suspect. And, if you think that's not a probability, all you need to do is to look at our history of forced American Indian moves, Japanese internment camps, Abu Ghraib and Gitmo.
BeauJangles
Lifer
- Aug 26, 2001
- 13,941
- 1
- 0
That's all well and good, but don't you think we should, you know, adhere to the constitution (specifically the 14th amendment)?
Fern
Elite Member
- Sep 30, 2003
- 26,907
- 174
- 106
Well, that's *your* take on it, and a highly dubious one at that.
The courts have addressed what, if any, Constitutional rights illegal aliens have in the US. For example they have ruled illegal aliens DO have the right of due process, but they do NOT have 4th Amendment rights (from 1999 SCOTUS case I've linked here before).
There are sites that provide a *table* of rights and who they do, and do not, apply to.
Nobody is in a "concentration camp" either. Such statements demean the suffering of WII era Jews, Gypsies & Poles and greatly exaggerate the conditions of present day detention camps. It's quite likely that they are ther because of "due process", instead of being deported already.
Fern
rpanic
Golden Member
- Dec 1, 2006
- 1,896
- 7
- 81
Are we talking about sending Illegal non US citizens, or Hispanics that are here legally, I thought we were talking about Illegals?
The only difference now is that politicians and businesses see a big gain at keeping laws from being enforced.
Also with most of those other examples that you came up with we were keeping the people here not just trying to send them back to where they came from illegally.
Thump553
Lifer
- Jun 2, 2000
- 12,839
- 2,625
- 136
If this story is true, I'm extremely concerned because the judge's position indicates that he doesn't understand (or doesn't apply) basic, well established principles of the US Constitution. In my state (CT) a few months ago a judicial candidate for an appellate position was thrown out when it came to light that he made a similar statement in his courtroon. And it was a Republican governor that withdrew suppost for him.
Some people carry their jingoism much too far.
Some people carry their jingoism much too far.
do you have problem with reading comprehension? I only raised border security because you talk about sending illegals back. And define your limited right? What rights do they have and who is gonna define it? What do you know about how humane it is to send illegals home, many of them have children and family who are US citizen.
I wouldn't mind my tax dollar being spent on people who lives in the US. I don't care if they are legal or illegal. They live in the same area as I do and if somebody got pissed off and go on a shooting rampage because they weren't treated fairly, that affects me. In facts, lots of illegal immigrants are hard working good people, unlike some redneck who complains all day about illegals and contribute nothing to the society. I'd rather spend my tax dollar to help those hard working people to go places rather than waste it on people who think they entitle to everything.
rpanic
Golden Member
- Dec 1, 2006
- 1,896
- 7
- 81
Reading comprehension, did you not make a jump from sending illegals home, to concentration camps, then to border security. Then you finally get to I don?t mind them being here illegally.
As far as the children go that wouldn?t be a problem if they came here legally in the first place. What is inhuman about sending them home for free, its better than what any country they are from would do, and they will be right back to where they were before they came here.
And if they are deported back to where they came from they won?t have a chance to go on a shooting rampage, come to think about it should a person here illegally even own a gun?
...he said with all the kindness and sensitivity of a flaming oven. Not surprising, is it, that something in the mirror I held up really set you off.
Yes, I advocated extermination of them. How petty of you to extrapolate that out to some ridiculous stature and then claim it as fact. You're no better than Dave.
I didn't extrapolate form any stature, whatever that is. I extrapolated it our of rational and sensitive way you attacked me. 'You may be a one eyed Jack, Dad, but I seen the other side of your face.'
I didn't attack you, perhaps you should go back and look at the way this post started. You're the one who attacked anybody who disagreed with you by comparing them Nazis, it was your line of reasoning and it required a response because not only was it stupid, but reprehensible and ridiculous. Nobody has said to exterminate illegal aliens, only to remove them.
Check your bullshit at the door and come back in when you're ready to not pull a comparison to Hitler in under 10 posts. how you ever got elite status is beyond me.
[/i]
Well, you are entitled to your opinion, but I don't think it's dubious.
I was talking about the Japanese, Ghraib and Gitmo detainees in my example above. However, there are many news stories about beatings and mistreatment in the illegal detainees detention camps that you can find all over the Net. And nor does the term 'concentration camp' demean any suffering by anyone. Our own Japanese internment camps were called concentration camps by the US government, and used the same definition that the Nazi camps used. Where Nazis actually sent people to their deaths, they were called 'death camps', although many people also died in the concentration camps. Whatever you call it, it really dosn't matter -- holding people indefinately and have them suffer abuse at the hands of our government is not something that Americans should be proud of, especially when we say we hold ourselves to a higher standard.
Fern
Elite Member
- Sep 30, 2003
- 26,907
- 174
- 106
You're mixing apples & oranges.
Indefinte detention does not apply to illegal immigrants, but rather alleged terrorists. And that's Constitutional and in accordance with a law passed by Congress (can't remember the name, but we've had a lengthy thread on it) which Constitutionally allows for the suspension of the Writ of Habeus Corpus. And here I speak of the detention of US citizens (Padilla etc.) Non-citizens on foreign soil do NOT have US Constitutional rights. There the debate is whether their treatment is in accordance with the Geneva Convention.
Concentration camps evokes military comparisons, again not suitable to the matter of illegals.
If you wanna say the illegals detained have been denied "due process", link it up. I still say the whole resason that they are there, instead of deported already, is because they DO have due process. Not the other way around.
Fern
Indefinte detention does not apply to illegal immigrants, but rather alleged terrorists. And that's Constitutional and in accordance with a law passed by Congress (can't remember the name, but we've had a lengthy thread on it) which Constitutionally allows for the suspension of the Writ of Habeus Corpus. And here I speak of the detention of US citizens (Padilla etc.) Non-citizens on foreign soil do NOT have US Constitutional rights. There the debate is whether their treatment is in accordance with the Geneva Convention.
Concentration camps evokes military comparisons, again not suitable to the matter of illegals.
If you wanna say the illegals detained have been denied "due process", link it up. I still say the whole resason that they are there, instead of deported already, is because they DO have due process. Not the other way around.
Fern
Well, that's exactly my point. How do we tell who is illegal and who is not? We don't have a national ID stating that you are a citizen, so what would be absolute proof? And should you be detained until you produce it? And how do we do it so it's going to be fair, yet comprehensive? What about non-hispanic illegals, do they get more of a free ride? My take is that Hispanics, illegal or legal will see more harassment by law enforcement because of this. And who should be the enforcer? The local cops? Immigration issues are a responsibility of the Federal government.
I didn't attack you. You decided that my post attacked you and so you attacked me personally. There was nothing in my post that was directed specifically at you except, of course, that the fact its setting you off implies it fit in ways you reacted to unconsciously. You felt you were attacked and so you gave yourself permission to go off on me.
Also, you have no idea at all why I posted what I did, what I meant, or what reaction I was waiting to see or caution against. It's actually you that's kind of the idiot here, but unlike you, I don't feel any need to make you see that. I hope you don't have kids. You might shoot them if they say boo.
what makes him a racists?
I swear, just because ya'll can spell the word does not mean ya'll know what it means. Let me guess, in your world any ruling which does not favor a non-Caucasian is automagically racist?
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