GM wants contract reopened: UAW not interested...

[irwincur]

Average pay at GM is $36 an hour. Add to that the costs of health care and pension plans. The Unions are killing the big three and they could care less.

I think it might be time to fire everyone and start over - without the Union. Pay the people $12 an hour, that would be more like it. Then the big three could afford a decent health care plan and a 401k match. In this day and age pensions are useless and stupid.

 

[isasir]

I've only loosely been following this, so pardon my ignorance but, can GM just close down a plant, and basically say "Well we gotta cut costs, so if you union guys don't make concessions, we're just gonna close a plant and not have a place for these workers"?

 

[olds]

Originally posted by: isasir
I've only loosely been following this, so pardon my ignorance but, can GM just close down a plant, and basically say "Well we gotta cut costs, so if you union guys don't make concessions, we're just gonna close a plant and not have a place for these workers"?

Then the UAW will huff and puff and blow their doors down.

 

[Ronstang]

Originally posted by: isasir
I've only loosely been following this, so pardon my ignorance but, can GM just close down a plant, and basically say "Well we gotta cut costs, so if you union guys don't make concessions, we're just gonna close a plant and not have a place for these workers"?

Yes they can, but it is an extreme action and the unions rely on that fact to continue to strong arm the companies into contracts that are "bad" for the companies but the negative impact the unions have over time usually force companies to shut down plants and sometimes go out of business as they have no choice. This has been happening since the 70's all over tha unionized northern states but noone seems to be learning anything....I guess unions are really full of complete myopic dumbasses.

 

[Armitage]

Originally posted by: isasir
I've only loosely been following this, so pardon my ignorance but, can GM just close down a plant, and basically say "Well we gotta cut costs, so if you union guys don't make concessions, we're just gonna close a plant and not have a place for these workers"?

And then the union replies: "If you shut that plant down we will strike and shut your entire company down."

 

[JEDI]

Originally posted by: yellowfiero
http://www.freep.com/money/autonews/uaw10e_20050610.htm


General Motors Corp., in the latest chapter of its growing financial trauma, has asked the UAW to reopen its national four-year contract less than two years into the pact. The union has politely said no and is warning the company not to try anything on its own.

GM also has given the union a laundry list of issues it needs help on -- mostly related to health care -- and the UAW said it will do what it can, union officials said Thursday.

The union refuses to reopen the current contract, which doesn't expire until September 2007, but it will work within that deal to help GM and troubled auto supplier Delphi Corp. rein in their massive health care tab.

So say plant-level union officials who met Thursday in Detroit with UAW Vice President Richard Shoemaker.

"They asked. We said no. We trust Shoemaker to do the right thing. We know that if you reopen the contract, you open a can of worms," said Oscar Bunch, 27-year president of UAW Local 14 in Toledo, which represents 2,800 workers at a GM transmission plant.

"I'm not surprised they asked, with all their health care costs. We will work as closely as we can with them," he said. Bunch said Shoemaker didn't specify what concessions GM was seeking.

That GM would push to reopen the contract shows how desperate the automaker is, labor and union experts said.

Earlier this week, GM said it would eliminate 25,000 U.S. manufacturing jobs by the end of 2008, mostly through attrition and retirement, along with some plant closings.

GM also lost $1.1 billion in the first quarter, its worst quarter in 13 years.

if a job can be replaced by technology, then do so!

i want my items to be inexpensive, damn it!

I dont want to pay $1500 more for my car because some guy retired in 1970, and i'm paying to substidize his pension and healthcare!

i wish walmart would create a car division.

 

[MisterCornell]

Originally posted by: isasir
I've only loosely been following this, so pardon my ignorance but, can GM just close down a plant, and basically say "Well we gotta cut costs, so if you union guys don't make concessions, we're just gonna close a plant and not have a place for these workers"?

In a word: no. There would be strikes across America at various GM plants, and they would lose billions.

 

[marvdmartian]

What would be sweet is to see GM sink billions into building completely automating plants. Say screw the UAW, and the union members, we don't need you anymore!! :|

The sad part is that most of the jobs that these guys work could be done by anyone with an 8th grade education. But with the stranglehold that the union has, no one gets hired unless they're a member (or agree to become a member). Too bad uncle sam can't just do to these guys like Reagan did to the air traffic controllers back in the 80's (of course, the ATC's were federal employees, so that made it easier), and just fire the whole lot, disband the union, then ask who wants to come back in at $15 an hour, with reasonable benefits? At the same time, get the car companies to lower their prices, so they're not suddenly making a killing on all the new car sales, and relax the tariff controls on the imports, so there's real competition in the marketplace. Oh wait, that would make sense, wouldn't it?? :roll:

Sadly, the one union in this country that probably has greater power than the uaw is the trucker's union. Yeah, that's right, the people that make certain that we all have shelves stocked with the little essentials in life, like food in the grocery stores. They have a virtual stranglehold on the economy, and pretty much get whatever raise they demand, with the threat of striking (and thus, crippling the economy) if they don't get it. Even more sadly, their non-union bretheren are paid so poorly that there's little to no incentive for the unionized truckers to give up their union cards (I work in a place where they truck in massive amounts of fuel, and some of those non-union drivers are working 12-14 hour days behind the wheel of their rigs for ~$100, before taxes!!). :shocked:

Unions had their day, and did a world of good for the workers, but there's no way they should have the ability to cripple a nation in any way, shape or form by their greed and laziness. I like the idea of knocking out their monopoly. Now all we have to do is get all of our congressional representatives to read this thread!! :laugh:

 

[CStan]

Originally posted by: marvdmartian
What would be sweet is to see GM sink billions into building completely automating plants. Say screw the UAW, and the union members, we don't need you anymore!! :|

Gm actually does have a strict policy on automation. Last summer I worked for a company that makes various plastic parts for the big three, and GM needed the most automation. The problem here though, is that the automation sucked so bad, and the plant lost millions of dollars trying to fix it. THey ended paying more for technicians to "patch" the machine for years, then they would to employees, if they did it the old fashioned way. This specific example i'm talking about is for a simple plastic air vent for GM's truck line.

 

[Dabappa]

Originally posted by: isasir
I've only loosely been following this, so pardon my ignorance but, can GM just close down a plant, and basically say "Well we gotta cut costs, so if you union guys don't make concessions, we're just gonna close a plant and not have a place for these workers"?

I am pretty sure GM has to pay 95% of a laid off UAW worker's pay for three years in supplimental unemployment benifits (less the amount the state pays).


There would not be much immediate cost savings other than overtime pay.

 

[GoingUp]

Originally posted by: Dabappa

Originally posted by: isasir
I've only loosely been following this, so pardon my ignorance but, can GM just close down a plant, and basically say "Well we gotta cut costs, so if you union guys don't make concessions, we're just gonna close a plant and not have a place for these workers"?

I am pretty sure GM has to pay 95% of a laid off UAW worker's pay for three years in supplimental unemployment benifits (less the amount the state pays).


There would not be much immediate cost savings other than overtime pay.

Yup! Hell I'd like to be "laid off" where I could sit around for 95% of my pay.... and you know all of those guys have side jobs too.

 

[JEDI]

do like United Airlines.

threaten bankrupcy. under bankrupcy, you can cancel contracts at will, and thumb your nose at the unions.

unfortunately, GM still has $15B in cash reserves. if they lose $1B per quarter, it would take 4 years b4 they are out of cash.

then there's the credit line they can tap into.

Having a cash reserve sucks when a union is involved...

 

[MikeMike]

Originally posted by: JEDI
do like United Airlines.

threaten bankrupcy. under bankrupcy, you can cancel contracts at will, and thumb your nose at the unions.

unfortunately, GM still has $15B in cash reserves. if they lose $1B per quarter, it would take 4 years b4 they are out of cash.

then there's the credit line they can tap into.

Having a cash reserve sucks when a union is involved...

chrysler did it, but they also screwed the SHT out of a lot of companies who supply them with stuff. think of the ppl who manuf plastic, metal, glass, all for GM and then think how much GM owes them, and what will happen under bankruptcy.

 

[cavemanmoron]

Originally posted by: MisterCornell

Originally posted by: oldsmoboat

Originally posted by: Aharami
UAW will run GM to the ground. And how come it seems that it's only GM who has problems with UAW? Does Ford have to put up with them also?

If I am not mistaken, GM runs GM, not UAW. Also, GM signed the contract with UAW. Do you know somwthing we don't or is it just time to show massive ignorance?

Actually you would be surprised how much control the UAW has over GM. The mindset of a lot of factory workers is that they work for the union, and the union works for GM. They think of the welfare of the union before the welfare of the company. Some of them are outright hostile to the company.

What's even more problematic is that the union dictates to GM how many cars and parts they can bring in from out of the country. Bringing the Pontiac GTO over here from Australia was a big controversy, because in their deals with the UAW they agree to limit their imports of cars/parts from overseas. Even though the GTO was only 18,000 units/year, it caused a lot of friction with the union.

 

[Ronstang]

Originally posted by: JEDI
do like United Airlines.

threaten bankrupcy. under bankrupcy, you can cancel contracts at will, and thumb your nose at the unions.

unfortunately, GM still has $15B in cash reserves. if they lose $1B per quarter, it would take 4 years b4 they are out of cash.

then there's the credit line they can tap into.

Having a cash reserve sucks when a union is involved...

GM has virtually no credit anymore. Their bonds have been reduced to junk status and noone is going to lend them money in their current condition unless the government is stupid enough to bail them out if they need it like they did for Chrysler back in the early 80's. GM's only hope is to reduce vehicle inventories, retool and start making appealing vehicles, and get out from under the thumb of the UAW.....I fear that GM is in for some serious trouble.

The one good thing about the situation of GM is there might be some hope of the government stepping in to reduce the power of the UAW. Remember, unions only have power because the government gave it to them. It isn't likely but it is definitely necessary and this situation with the one of tha largest companies in the country in trouble due to unions might just be the impetus for some serious change. The auto makers are going to have to bust the UAW or move their plants to "right to work" states if they want to stay in business for the long run.

 

[ElFenix]

right to work states++

texas has the best job market in the country for a reason

 

[halik]

nice,
so since they dont wanna renegotiate, half of em get canned :roll:

 

[Ronstang]

Originally posted by: ElFenix
right to work states++

texas has the best job market in the country for a reason

In 25 years if the US automakers are still around you might just see them all have their headquarters down here too....unless they can dump the UAW. It would actually be to Michigan's bnefit for their government to take power away from the unions but unfortunately they are too shortsighted and vote minded to actually save their economy. I shudder at the thought of what Michigan is going to be like in 10 years if the UAW continues it's stranglehold on the automakers.

 

[MisterCornell]

Originally posted by: Ronstang

Originally posted by: ElFenix
right to work states++

texas has the best job market in the country for a reason

In 25 years if the US automakers are still around you might just see them all have their headquarters down here too....unless they can dump the UAW. It would actually be to Michigan's bnefit for their government to take power away from the unions but unfortunately they are too shortsighted and vote minded to actually save their economy. I shudder at the thought of what Michigan is going to be like in 10 years if the UAW continues it's stranglehold on the automakers.

The UAW has gotten many Midwestern states to write laws that are friendly to them.

For example, in Michigan there is a "union violence" statute.

If you go and stab someone to death, that can get you sent to prison for life.

But let's say you go and stab someone to death, and claim you did it because they were a scab. Now you will be tried for the seperate crime of "union violence", and you will only get a year or two in jail.

It's like a "hate crime", except it gets you less time in jail.

 

[Ronstang]

Originally posted by: MisterCornell

Originally posted by: Ronstang

Originally posted by: ElFenix
right to work states++

texas has the best job market in the country for a reason

In 25 years if the US automakers are still around you might just see them all have their headquarters down here too....unless they can dump the UAW. It would actually be to Michigan's bnefit for their government to take power away from the unions but unfortunately they are too shortsighted and vote minded to actually save their economy. I shudder at the thought of what Michigan is going to be like in 10 years if the UAW continues it's stranglehold on the automakers.

The UAW has gotten many Midwestern states to write laws that are friendly to them.

For example, in Michigan there is a "union violence" statute.

If you go and stab someone to death, that can get you sent to prison for life.

But let's say you go and stab someone to death, and claim you did it because they were a scab. Now you will be tried for the seperate crime of "union violence", and you will only get a year or two in jail.

It's like a "hate crime", except it gets you less time in jail.

That may be true but Texas isn't that stupid nor are most of the Southern states so all unionized industry might just end up here one day.....not that I actually want that.

 

[jpeyton]

GM should batton down the hatches until 2007 when the current contract expires, and then let the UAW have it. Either a stripped down new contract, or a move to a non-union workforce.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: jpeyton
GM should batton down the hatches until 2007 when the current contract expires, and then let the UAW have it. Either a stripped down new contract, or a move to a non-union workforce.

They should start planning for new facilities in southern states before they open bargaining talks with UAW 2007.

 

[RU482]

when I worked for GM, talking to the other employees, I came to the conclusion that their insurance wasn't all that great

 

[Pocatello]

The UAW people are too greedy, they rather see GM go to the brink of bankcruptcy, then what? It's not like they are going to gain any more members from the Asian and European car companies. GM financial trouble is also cause by management incompetent, don't blame the UAW for GM's fiasco with Fiat, $2 Billion write off.