GM wants contract reopened: UAW not interested...

[Analog]

http://www.freep.com/money/autonews/uaw10e_20050610.htm


General Motors Corp., in the latest chapter of its growing financial trauma, has asked the UAW to reopen its national four-year contract less than two years into the pact. The union has politely said no and is warning the company not to try anything on its own.

GM also has given the union a laundry list of issues it needs help on -- mostly related to health care -- and the UAW said it will do what it can, union officials said Thursday.

The union refuses to reopen the current contract, which doesn't expire until September 2007, but it will work within that deal to help GM and troubled auto supplier Delphi Corp. rein in their massive health care tab.

So say plant-level union officials who met Thursday in Detroit with UAW Vice President Richard Shoemaker.

"They asked. We said no. We trust Shoemaker to do the right thing. We know that if you reopen the contract, you open a can of worms," said Oscar Bunch, 27-year president of UAW Local 14 in Toledo, which represents 2,800 workers at a GM transmission plant.

"I'm not surprised they asked, with all their health care costs. We will work as closely as we can with them," he said. Bunch said Shoemaker didn't specify what concessions GM was seeking.

That GM would push to reopen the contract shows how desperate the automaker is, labor and union experts said.

Earlier this week, GM said it would eliminate 25,000 U.S. manufacturing jobs by the end of 2008, mostly through attrition and retirement, along with some plant closings.

GM also lost $1.1 billion in the first quarter, its worst quarter in 13 years.

 

[Aharami]

UAW will run GM to the ground. And how come it seems that it's only GM who has problems with UAW? Does Ford have to put up with them also?

 

[marvdmartian]

All the big 3 put up with the UAW, unfortunately. IMHO, it's the reason why cars are so expensive, but I'm sure I'd get plenty of arguments about that one! :roll:

The biggest problem I have with unions like the UAW is that they'll run companies like GM into the ground, all the time spouting out about "saving the little guy", the poor pitiful assembly line worker who's making $25 an hour for what's not much more than menial labor. Then, once GM tanks (anyone remember Chrysler in the early 80's??), and people start losing their jobs, the union will STILL demand their union dues, and warn the workers who now don't have a paycheck that if they want their jobs back, they'd better keep paying their dues!!

Bottom line? Unions like the UAW laugh all the way to the bank. Why do you think the mafia has tried so hard to muscle in on them?? They're an easy cash cow. :disgust:

 

[Chadder007]

Originally posted by: Aharami
UAW will run GM to the ground. And how come it seems that it's only GM who has problems with UAW? Does Ford have to put up with them also?

You should know better than that.....GM agreed to the contract. GMs problems stem from their own mismanagement, not in any way of the Unions. Chrysler is doing fine with the Union still. GM is just bullcrapping and trying to place the blame anywhere but on management.

 

[Ronstang]

Originally posted by: marvdmartian
All the big 3 put up with the UAW, unfortunately. IMHO, it's the reason why cars are so expensive, but I'm sure I'd get plenty of arguments about that one! :roll:

The biggest problem I have with unions like the UAW is that they'll run companies like GM into the ground, all the time spouting out about "saving the little guy", the poor pitiful assembly line worker who's making $25 an hour for what's not much more than menial labor. Then, once GM tanks (anyone remember Chrysler in the early 80's??), and people start losing their jobs, the union will STILL demand their union dues, and warn the workers who now don't have a paycheck that if they want their jobs back, they'd better keep paying their dues!!

Bottom line? Unions like the UAW laugh all the way to the bank. Why do you think the mafia has tried so hard to muscle in on them?? They're an easy cash cow. :disgust:

Unions also rely on mass ignorance, laziness, and greed so there is a vast pool of people for them to take advantage of also. The ironic thing is that unions and their members have taken the place of the companies as the "abusers"....they have done a flip. I will feel no pity for UAW workers left out in the cold when they destroy what is left of the US automakers, unless they can find a way to break the back of the union. Union idiots are too ignorant to understand that when the company finally goes bankrupt they have NO pensions or healthcare anymore anyways...but they kept their UNION PRIDE!!! That must count for something, huh?

 

[theknight571]

GM just needs to build cars that people want to buy.

The way I see it is that Unions hold a company by the balls. If the company doesn't agree to their terms they strike... and the Company loses sales/money etc. If they do agree to their terms it costs the company more money to employ the workers, eventually driving up the cost of the products.

Greed drives both sides.

I don't have an answer...but neither side gets all the blame.

 

[Ronstang]

Originally posted by: theknight571
I don't have an answer...but neither side gets all the blame.

The answer is simple. Labor is a commodity input like any other resouce a company uses in the manufacture of it's goods and/or services and the price paid should be determined by the market.....it really is that simple.

 

[spacelord]

Unions also rely on mass ignorance, laziness, and greed so there is a vast pool of people for them to take advantage of also. The ironic thing is that unions and their members have taken the place of the companies as the "abusers"....they have done a flip. I will feel no pity for UAW workers left out in the cold when they destroy what is left of the US automakers, unless they can find a way to break the back of the union. Union idiots are too ignorant to understand that when the company finally goes bankrupt they have NO pensions or healthcare anymore anyways...but they kept their UNION PRIDE!!! That must count for something, huh?

right on.
Union employess have had better healthcare benefits than most salaried employees for years. Its time for the unions to pay the equivalent of their benefits too.

A contract is a contract though, and GM should ride it out until 2007 when it expires.. then there will be hell to pay and many union jobs lost.

 

[PlatinumGold]

Originally posted by: Ronstang

Originally posted by: theknight571
I don't have an answer...but neither side gets all the blame.

The answer is simple. Labor is a commodity input like any other resouce a company uses in the manufacture of it's goods and/or services and the price paid should be determined by the market.....it really is that simple.

but it's not that simple. unions are a failure in the market place. yes, unions were originally started to deal with another market failure (when employers were abusing employees). unfortunately in todays day and age the employees are abusing employers without question.

than you have stupid unions like NBA Players association, MLB Players association . . . or the AMA or the ABA.

they all represent failures in the market place because they have a monopoly control of the labor supply. when you have this kind of market failure is when the FED SHOULD INTERVENE. they should break up monopoly unions. no one market segment should be represented by only one union. their should be multiple unions per segment and they should be forced to compete or at least not to act together.

 

[GoingUp]

The problem with unions is that they guarentee jobs. Whats the motivation to work harder when you know youre going to get paid no matter what kind of job you put in?

 

[PlatinumGold]

Originally posted by: Gobadgrs
The problem with unions is that they guarentee jobs. Whats the motivation to work harder when you know youre going to get paid no matter what kind of job you put in?

that's why i believe we should have competing unions. and no they should not be allowed to guarantee jobs.

 

[BigJ]

Originally posted by: spacelord

Unions also rely on mass ignorance, laziness, and greed so there is a vast pool of people for them to take advantage of also. The ironic thing is that unions and their members have taken the place of the companies as the "abusers"....they have done a flip. I will feel no pity for UAW workers left out in the cold when they destroy what is left of the US automakers, unless they can find a way to break the back of the union. Union idiots are too ignorant to understand that when the company finally goes bankrupt they have NO pensions or healthcare anymore anyways...but they kept their UNION PRIDE!!! That must count for something, huh?

right on.
Union employess have had better healthcare benefits than most salaried employees for years. Its time for the unions to pay the equivalent of their benefits too.

A contract is a contract though, and GM should ride it out until 2007 when it expires.. then there will be hell to pay and many union jobs lost.

Yep.

 

Originally posted by: Gobadgrs
The problem with unions is that they guarentee jobs. Whats the motivation to work harder when you know youre going to get paid no matter what kind of job you put in?

So true, a good friend of mine worked for Ford in Sharonville OH, he admitted that he tools around for most of the day. Says that just about all the folks working there dont put in even close to %100.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Gobadgrs
The problem with unions is that they guarentee jobs. Whats the motivation to work harder when you know youre going to get paid no matter what kind of job you put in?

The Carpenters Union I belonged too never protected anyone I knew of who didn't put in a hard days work. Hell I've even seen a Job Steward get sh!t canned because he was careless with the equipment and the Union went along with his firing.


Of course Building Trade Unions realize that if the Contractors don't make a profit they go out of business and then there are no jobs to be had so they are usually more than willing to compromise when it comes to contract time if the Building Contractors are honest and fair with their demands.

 

[Kelemvor]

Unions are such crap. They won't talk about renegotiating when they like the current contract but they'll strike and boycott if they don't. Company is in financial trouble, UAW says too bad, keep paying us... Well, when the company goes bankrupt I guess we'll just all sit back and say I Told You So....

 

[Fritzo]

Originally posted by: marvdmartian
All the big 3 put up with the UAW, unfortunately. IMHO, it's the reason why cars are so expensive, but I'm sure I'd get plenty of arguments about that one! :roll:

The biggest problem I have with unions like the UAW is that they'll run companies like GM into the ground, all the time spouting out about "saving the little guy", the poor pitiful assembly line worker who's making $25 an hour for what's not much more than menial labor. Then, once GM tanks (anyone remember Chrysler in the early 80's??), and people start losing their jobs, the union will STILL demand their union dues, and warn the workers who now don't have a paycheck that if they want their jobs back, they'd better keep paying their dues!!

Bottom line? Unions like the UAW laugh all the way to the bank. Why do you think the mafia has tried so hard to muscle in on them?? They're an easy cash cow. :disgust:

No, it's true. The guy two doors down from me works for Jeep as a custodian and constantly brags how he makes near $25/hr for pushing a broom through the plant all day. He doesn't even have to clean bathrooms- just sweep!

 

[MisterCornell]

Originally posted by: Chadder007

Originally posted by: Aharami
UAW will run GM to the ground. And how come it seems that it's only GM who has problems with UAW? Does Ford have to put up with them also?

You should know better than that.....GM agreed to the contract. GMs problems stem from their own mismanagement, not in any way of the Unions. Chrysler is doing fine with the Union still. GM is just bullcrapping and trying to place the blame anywhere but on management.

GM has little choice but to submit to the demands of the union. Otherwise there will be widespread strikes at its plants. There is no negotiation. The union dictates its demands every 4 years, and GM must accept them.

 

[olds]

Originally posted by: Aharami
UAW will run GM to the ground. And how come it seems that it's only GM who has problems with UAW? Does Ford have to put up with them also?

If I am not mistaken, GM runs GM, not UAW. Also, GM signed the contract with UAW. Do you know somwthing we don't or is it just time to show massive ignorance?

 

[Yossarian]

unions: destroying the US economy, one business at a time.

 

[MisterCornell]

Originally posted by: oldsmoboat

Originally posted by: Aharami
UAW will run GM to the ground. And how come it seems that it's only GM who has problems with UAW? Does Ford have to put up with them also?

If I am not mistaken, GM runs GM, not UAW. Also, GM signed the contract with UAW. Do you know somwthing we don't or is it just time to show massive ignorance?

Actually you would be surprised how much control the UAW has over GM. The mindset of a lot of factory workers is that they work for the union, and the union works for GM. They think of the welfare of the union before the welfare of the company. Some of them are outright hostile to the company.

What's even more problematic is that the union dictates to GM how many cars and parts they can bring in from out of the country. Bringing the Pontiac GTO over here from Australia was a big controversy, because in their deals with the UAW they agree to limit their imports of cars/parts from overseas. Even though the GTO was only 18,000 units/year, it caused a lot of friction with the union.

 

[MagicConch]

I don't see why they aren't concerned about losing their jobs, at least not enough to make concessions.

 

[her209]

Why is it the little guys that always have to pay the price?

 

[OutHouse]

"I'm not surprised they asked, with all their health care costs. We will work as closely as we can with them,"

see thats the problem right there. Its everybodys healthcare cost not just managements.

I just got a letter in my company mailbox stating that my healthcare premiums are going up. guess who gets to pay the increase... Fu*ck unions. 70 years ago they were really needed, blue collar workers were nothing but slave labor and the unions did a lot of good to improve wages and working conditions. but now the UAW is totally out of control and not needed.

. They think of the welfare of the union before the welfare of the company. Some of them are outright hostile to the company.

thats the truth. i have a friend who did some contract work at the Budweiser plant in Ft. Collins CO. He meet many union workers who hated the company Budweiser and only cared about how the union was. He basically said that it was almost like the Union works for Bud but the workers work for the union.

 

[chowderhead]

Originally posted by: buck

Originally posted by: Gobadgrs
The problem with unions is that they guarentee jobs. Whats the motivation to work harder when you know youre going to get paid no matter what kind of job you put in?

So true, a good friend of mine worked for Ford in Sharonville OH, he admitted that he tools around for most of the day. Says that just about all the folks working there dont put in even close to %100.

kind of like when all of us putt around ATOT during work hours. pot meet kettle.

 

[Armitage]

Originally posted by: oldsmoboat

Originally posted by: Aharami
UAW will run GM to the ground. And how come it seems that it's only GM who has problems with UAW? Does Ford have to put up with them also?

If I am not mistaken, GM runs GM, not UAW. Also, GM signed the contract with UAW. Do you know somwthing we don't or is it just time to show massive ignorance?

Any company in an industry as unionized as the auto industry basically signs the contract under duress - ie. the fear of a crippling strike. They don't have any significant negotiating position, as they don't have the cash reserves to break a strike.

Ford & Chrysler may or may not have better deals with the unions - I think they're doing better at this point because their product line hasn't sucked quite as completely as GM's does.