GM: Suburban & Tahoe Dead

[Squisher]

Most SUV drivers were people that could get by with a minivan or station wagon, but didn't want the stigma of owning a minivan or station wagon. No one wants to drive around waving a flag that says, "I got married, I have become resigned to the fact that I will live the rest of my life devoid of driving anything that is fun."


I think people who actually need the occasional use of an SUV will turn to smaller manufacturers, like Land Rover, Hummer, etc. Who knows what CAFE is going to with this segment.

 

[SparkyJJO]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
I don't have a problem with people owning the right vehicle for their needs. I have a problem with people buying big wasteful vehicles they clearly don't need.

I'm sure your car is more than you need too. You could get by with something less. But no, you wanted more. Is that such a wrong thing, to WANT something more than a crappy econobox? Maybe some people like having more legroom, more headroom? Or they just simply like a larger vehicle? You don't like their SUV? Too bad. Their preference of vehicle, just like your preference is something other than an SUV. Why do you even care what someone else drives anyway???

I'm a car person myself, not big into SUVs, just not my style. But it is for others, and I respect their preference. Why can't you respect other people's preferences?

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: SparkyJJO

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
I don't have a problem with people owning the right vehicle for their needs. I have a problem with people buying big wasteful vehicles they clearly don't need.

I'm sure your car is more than you need too. You could get by with something less. But no, you wanted more. Is that such a wrong thing, to WANT something more than a crappy econobox? Maybe some people like having more legroom, more headroom? Or they just simply like a larger vehicle? You don't like their SUV? Too bad. Their preference of vehicle, just like your preference is something other than an SUV. Why do you even care what someone else drives anyway???

I'm a car person myself, not big into SUVs, just not my style. But it is for others, and I respect their preference. Why can't you respect other people's preferences?

Because it is wasteful. Why should I respect someone for being wasteful? That's like asking me to respect someone for not recycling...or throwing their trash on the side of the road.

 

[The Boston Dangler]

Originally posted by: Squisher
Most SUV drivers were people that could get by with a minivan or station wagon, but didn't want the stigma of owning a minivan or station wagon. No one wants to drive around waving a flag that says, "I got married, I have become resigned to the fact that I will live the rest of my life devoid of driving anything that is fun."


I think people who actually need the occasional use of an SUV will turn to smaller manufacturers, like Land Rover, Hummer, etc. Who knows what CAFE is going to with this segment.

the vast majority of suv drivers can get by with a small sedan. shit, most suv's i've seen have had exactly one person in it, with little or no cargo. their gluttony demands a canyonero.

i'm sure the existing models will soldier on with updates, for those that realistically need them. there isn't going to be a gen 7 vette any time soon, but corvettes won't disappear.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: SparkyJJO

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
I don't have a problem with people owning the right vehicle for their needs. I have a problem with people buying big wasteful vehicles they clearly don't need.

I'm sure your car is more than you need too. You could get by with something less. But no, you wanted more. Is that such a wrong thing, to WANT something more than a crappy econobox? Maybe some people like having more legroom, more headroom? Or they just simply like a larger vehicle? You don't like their SUV? Too bad. Their preference of vehicle, just like your preference is something other than an SUV. Why do you even care what someone else drives anyway???

I'm a car person myself, not big into SUVs, just not my style. But it is for others, and I respect their preference. Why can't you respect other people's preferences?

Because it is wasteful. Why should I respect someone for being wasteful? That's like asking me to respect someone for not recycling...or throwing their trash on the side of the road.

Your Maxima is wasteful too. You don't need a V6. You could easily be driving a little Civic with the base engine and getting mid 30's instead of mid 20's for mileage. It just depends on where the line is drawn.

ZV

 

[zerocool84]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: SparkyJJO

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
I don't have a problem with people owning the right vehicle for their needs. I have a problem with people buying big wasteful vehicles they clearly don't need.

I'm sure your car is more than you need too. You could get by with something less. But no, you wanted more. Is that such a wrong thing, to WANT something more than a crappy econobox? Maybe some people like having more legroom, more headroom? Or they just simply like a larger vehicle? You don't like their SUV? Too bad. Their preference of vehicle, just like your preference is something other than an SUV. Why do you even care what someone else drives anyway???

I'm a car person myself, not big into SUVs, just not my style. But it is for others, and I respect their preference. Why can't you respect other people's preferences?

Because it is wasteful. Why should I respect someone for being wasteful? That's like asking me to respect someone for not recycling...or throwing their trash on the side of the road.

Well Zen got that for me already.

But yea Jules, your Maxima im sure, is more than you need so you have no room to knock them.

 

[boomerang]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: zerocool84

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
As much as I agree with you that SUVs were too often bought by people who didn't need them, the fact is that they did indeed serve a legitimate use for certain segments of the market. Yes, this is a small segment, but it's still sad to see vehicles that did still have the ability to do serious work disappearing entirely. I think that they should get back to the way the Suburban originally was: a work pickup with a cover over the bed and an extra seat thrown in back there.

I think that they lost focus on these trucks by making them too luxury-oriented and that there would still be a decent market if they went back to a less luxurious more work-oriented vehicle.

ZV

It's a tiny segment really and one that is probably shrinking rapidly in this economy. Besides, those people can still buy a crew cab truck. Although, I suspect there will be far fewer of those manufactured as well because of the economy and the ever looming potential for the return of high gas prices.

I don't have a problem with people owning the right vehicle for their needs. I have a problem with people buying big wasteful vehicles they clearly don't need.

It was a tiny segment in the 60's, 70's, and 80's too, but the Suburban was profitable then because it was a work truck that didn't bother with expensive luxury bits.

The fact that people who don't need them buy them is not the fault of the auto makers. They just responded to that demand.

ZV

People didn't just wake up one morning and suddenly realize that they needed an SUV. That was marketing...pure and simple.

Slapping some extra carpet, a few more windows, and a little sheet metal on a pickup truck and charging an extra $10-15k (or more) for it makes for a lot of profit. Pure marketing genius actually...and we Americans sucked it up like Hoovers for almost 2 decades.

That ship has sailed though and I'm not saddened by that in the least.

So did the Auto Industry market small fuel efficient cars recently or did people naturally gravitate towards them cus of fuel prices??? People wanted SUV's and the Auto Intustry gave consumers what they wanted. Don't blame it on the Auto Industry.

We reacted too late to a problem we should have seen coming and now it's biting us in the ass. We have nobody to blame but ourselves.

I've been preaching this for years but I've gotten nothing but shit for it. I'm not going shed a single tear for the auto industry in this country.

You're shedding one here whether you realize it or not. If you truly did not care, you would not be posting.

What do you hope to accomplish here today? This topic has been brought up ad-nauseam here. If any manufacturer of goods, automotive or otherwise, is not doing what you want them to, not doing what you need them to or not listening to you, strike back by not buying their products. Your Congressional representatives are the people you need to talk to if you're unhappy with the way they're spending tax dollars.

This subject has been talked to death here and it's always the same whining and crying. Get over it and move on.

 

[Demon-Xanth]

What we all should be driving:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1fGxk2r-bY

 

[jagec]

Originally posted by: grohl
Love, love our Suburban. Haul three kids it during the week, last weekend I had 30 bags of mulch in it and STILL had room for three passengers. I will ALWAYS have a big gas-guzzing beast, the rest of you can suck it.

You actually use it. Nothin' wrong with that. Some friends of mine have a Suburban that they tow with--I remember being in it with a bunch of other people, towing a big trailer full of whitewater rafts and associated equipment, the back full of all of our gear, and the thing was STILL able to get up to freeway speed in a reasonable amount of time and stay there. Impressive. But during the week they leave it parked in the garage and take the car.

 

[Bignate603]

There are legitimate uses for them and I actually plan on buying a large suv or truck in the next 5 years. I'm going to need a tow vehicle. It will be parked 90% or more of the year and only pulled out when I need to move something large or pull around another vehicle (a beater lifted vehicle shouldn't be driven on the road). With the way things are going I should be able to pick up a used one at a decent price.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: SparkyJJO

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
I don't have a problem with people owning the right vehicle for their needs. I have a problem with people buying big wasteful vehicles they clearly don't need.

I'm sure your car is more than you need too. You could get by with something less. But no, you wanted more. Is that such a wrong thing, to WANT something more than a crappy econobox? Maybe some people like having more legroom, more headroom? Or they just simply like a larger vehicle? You don't like their SUV? Too bad. Their preference of vehicle, just like your preference is something other than an SUV. Why do you even care what someone else drives anyway???

I'm a car person myself, not big into SUVs, just not my style. But it is for others, and I respect their preference. Why can't you respect other people's preferences?

Because it is wasteful. Why should I respect someone for being wasteful? That's like asking me to respect someone for not recycling...or throwing their trash on the side of the road.

Your Maxima is wasteful too. You don't need a V6. You could easily be driving a little Civic with the base engine and getting mid 30's instead of mid 20's for mileage. It just depends on where the line is drawn.

ZV

I see your point. I'll go trade in my Maxima, which is paid for, for a Suburban tomorrow. Gas is cheap and I hear you can get a really good deal on one right now...if you can qualify for the loan that is.

 

[zerocool84]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: SparkyJJO

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
I don't have a problem with people owning the right vehicle for their needs. I have a problem with people buying big wasteful vehicles they clearly don't need.

I'm sure your car is more than you need too. You could get by with something less. But no, you wanted more. Is that such a wrong thing, to WANT something more than a crappy econobox? Maybe some people like having more legroom, more headroom? Or they just simply like a larger vehicle? You don't like their SUV? Too bad. Their preference of vehicle, just like your preference is something other than an SUV. Why do you even care what someone else drives anyway???

I'm a car person myself, not big into SUVs, just not my style. But it is for others, and I respect their preference. Why can't you respect other people's preferences?

Because it is wasteful. Why should I respect someone for being wasteful? That's like asking me to respect someone for not recycling...or throwing their trash on the side of the road.

Your Maxima is wasteful too. You don't need a V6. You could easily be driving a little Civic with the base engine and getting mid 30's instead of mid 20's for mileage. It just depends on where the line is drawn.

ZV

I see your point. I'll go trade in my Maxima, which is paid for, for a Suburban tomorrow. Gas is cheap and I hear you can get a really good deal on one right now...if you can qualify for the loan that is.

Nice way to avoid the post......

 

[Slew Foot]

At least they're making a Hybrid Escalade. That will be the car to save them

 

[thomsbrain]

The next Escalade is rumored to be on the unibody Lambada platform. The Lambada is nearly as large as the Tahoe and offers significantly improved NVH and overall comfort. It's a no-brainer for that model, regardless of gas prices.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: zerocool84

Nice way to avoid the post......

I'm not going to be baited into an argument over the reasons why I own my current car...which I've owned for almost 6 years and happens to be paid for.

I'm glad the SUV is dead. Let's leave it at that.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Because it is wasteful. Why should I respect someone for being wasteful? That's like asking me to respect someone for not recycling...or throwing their trash on the side of the road.

Your Maxima is wasteful too. You don't need a V6. You could easily be driving a little Civic with the base engine and getting mid 30's instead of mid 20's for mileage. It just depends on where the line is drawn.

ZV

I see your point. I'll go trade in my Maxima, which is paid for, for a Suburban tomorrow. Gas is cheap and I hear you can get a really good deal on one right now...if you can qualify for the loan that is.

Clearly you do not see the point if this is your reaction. If the Maxima is already more car than you need, as I claim, then the Suburban is only making things worse. If you were really following my line of thought, you'd have made a comment about trading in the Maxima for a VW Jetta TDI or other similarly high-mpg car.

The point isn't to argue about why you own your current car; the point is to illustrate that the line you're trying to draw is very, very subjective and that, to others, your own choices may very well appear just as profligate as an SUV driver's choice appears to you.

You are happy that a choice has been removed from the marketplace because that choice has been, in your opinion, abused. I agree that the choice has been abused, however I cannot ever be happy to see a choice disappear when there is at least some segment that has a legitimate claim to that choice.

ZV

 

[Arkaign]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: zerocool84

Nice way to avoid the post......

I'm not going to be baited into an argument over the reasons why I own my current car...which I've owned for almost 6 years and happens to be paid for.

I'm glad the SUV is dead. Let's leave it at that.

(1)- This is America, and our greatest strength is also our Achilles heel sometimes, our freedom of choice. People chose to buy SUV's, even though they were frequently unnecessary and wasteful both of fuel and the original purchase price. I remember in the early '90s when there really was almost no difference between an Explorer and the Ranger it was based upon. Yet the Ranger could be had with a (admittedly small) backseat and plenty of options for ~$13k, and the Explorer would be $30k+, for essentially a rear enclosure and an extra bench seat, some glass and metal and whatnot. Certainly not $17k worth of value there.

But people tend to follow trends in markets where there is plenty of choice. Clothing, movies, music, cars/trucks are similar, in that although they do serve a function, there is a great variety of style available. For whatever human reasoning, people tend to follow trends, and the SUV became almost iconic of suburban America, and with luxury crossovers and escalades, also iconic of urban America.

(2)- Personally, I pretty much agree with you. I think SUV's are borderline retarded choices for virtually everyone who owns one. There are several telling questions, such as "hey, do you ever go off-road?, like more than once every few years?", or "do you tow a large boat or trailer?". It's funny, but I'd wager that easily 90% of SUV owners would be better served by anything from an economy car (the people that never carry more than 1 passenger or some groceries), to a Minivan (the family that has 5 kids and needs to tow their boat to the lake sometimes). Minivans almost invariably have more interior room, have higher safety ratings, handle better, get better fuel economy, are more accessible to get into and out of, so on and so forth.

(3)- I think people should be allowed to buy what they want. I'm glad the SUV craze is dying out, as I always thought it arbitrary and almost a comedy of illogical choices for daily driver vehicles. But as ZV pointed out, if we decide that you can't or shouldn't own a 15mpg megalith SUV, who's to say that your Maxima has any place in a marketplace where 40mpg vehicles can be had?

 

[kalrith]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: zerocool84

Nice way to avoid the post......

I'm not going to be baited into an argument over the reasons why I own my current car...which I've owned for almost 6 years and happens to be paid for.

I'm glad the SUV is dead. Let's leave it at that.

If you want others to accept your decision to drive your wasteful Maxima just because it's paid off and wouldn't make economic sense to purchase another more-economic vehicle, then you should do the same to those people who own wasteful SUVs.

The people who irk me are those like one of my coworkers. She has a 130-mile round-trip commute five days a week. She was driving an old Bronco, but I assumed she'd downsize when she bought a new vehicle in light of the gas prices. Earlier this year when gas was well over $3/gallon, she pulls up in a new Tahoe. I just couldn't believe it. At $3/gallon she must've been spending over $100 per week just for driving to and from work. As far as I know, she doesn't have any need for a big SUV. Even if she did, she could've easily used the Bronco for those needs and drive something like a Camry or Accord to work, which should get 63% better highway mileage.

Just for the record, I drive an '01 Mazda Tribute. It gets about 15/21, which really sucks for a small, car-based SUV. It's got 130k miles on it. I'd like to replace it with a new Honda Fit, which has almost as much cargo space (4 cubic feet fewer) and is rated at 27/33mpg, but owners report getting about 30/37.

 

[PingSpike]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
As much as I agree with you that SUVs were too often bought by people who didn't need them, the fact is that they did indeed serve a legitimate use for certain segments of the market. Yes, this is a small segment, but it's still sad to see vehicles that did still have the ability to do serious work disappearing entirely. I think that they should get back to the way the Suburban originally was: a work pickup with a cover over the bed and an extra seat thrown in back there.

I think that they lost focus on these trucks by making them too luxury-oriented and that there would still be a decent market if they went back to a less luxurious more work-oriented vehicle.

ZV

It's a tiny segment really and one that is probably shrinking rapidly in this economy. Besides, those people can still buy a crew cab truck. Although, I suspect there will be far fewer of those manufactured as well because of the economy and the ever looming potential for the return of high gas prices.

I don't have a problem with people owning the right vehicle for their needs. I have a problem with people buying big wasteful vehicles they clearly don't need.

It was a tiny segment in the 60's, 70's, and 80's too, but the Suburban was profitable then because it was a work truck that didn't bother with expensive luxury bits.

The fact that people who don't need them buy them is not the fault of the auto makers. They just responded to that demand.

ZV

They're responding to demand now. A lack of demand and a self inflicted oversupply problem. I'm sure they'll still make crew cab trucks for the few that still need the workhorses...and maybe they'll bring god damn station wagons back finally for the rest of us, even if they have to lie to Americans and call them crossovers or something.

 

[Raduque]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

I'm not going to be baited into an argument over the reasons why I own my current car...which I've owned for almost 6 years and happens to be paid for.

I'm glad the SUV is dead. Let's leave it at that.

I would say you're more than glad. I'd say you have a childlike glee about it, you're practically dancing in the streets, singing "ding dong, the wicked SUVs are dead" and rubbing peoples noses in it.

I have a couple questions for you, jules. I'm more comfortable in a larger vehicle. I just enjoy driving a bigger vehicle more. I'm cramped in smaller vehicles and I'm uncomfortable being that close to the road. So, what should I drive?

According to you, I should not have the choice to be comfortable and enjoy driving, I should be uncomfortable, cramped and unhappy in an itty-bitty generic econobox because my big vehicle is "wasteful" to you. Did I get that right?

 

[PingSpike]

Originally posted by: Slew Foot
At least they're making a Hybrid Escalade. That will be the car to save them

LOL...well I'm sure most middle class families stuggling with rising costs will be glad to know they can now get better gas mileage in their escalade.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: PingSpike

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt
As much as I agree with you that SUVs were too often bought by people who didn't need them, the fact is that they did indeed serve a legitimate use for certain segments of the market. Yes, this is a small segment, but it's still sad to see vehicles that did still have the ability to do serious work disappearing entirely. I think that they should get back to the way the Suburban originally was: a work pickup with a cover over the bed and an extra seat thrown in back there.

I think that they lost focus on these trucks by making them too luxury-oriented and that there would still be a decent market if they went back to a less luxurious more work-oriented vehicle.

ZV

It's a tiny segment really and one that is probably shrinking rapidly in this economy. Besides, those people can still buy a crew cab truck. Although, I suspect there will be far fewer of those manufactured as well because of the economy and the ever looming potential for the return of high gas prices.

I don't have a problem with people owning the right vehicle for their needs. I have a problem with people buying big wasteful vehicles they clearly don't need.

It was a tiny segment in the 60's, 70's, and 80's too, but the Suburban was profitable then because it was a work truck that didn't bother with expensive luxury bits.

The fact that people who don't need them buy them is not the fault of the auto makers. They just responded to that demand.

ZV

They're responding to demand now. A lack of demand and a self inflicted oversupply problem. I'm sure they'll still make crew cab trucks for the few that still need the workhorses...and maybe they'll bring god damn station wagons back finally for the rest of us, even if they have to lie to Americans and call them crossovers or something.

Agreed. I'd love to see station wagons again, they can be wonderful cars (though, as a Volvo fan, I am probably biased).

Still, I liked the old 1980's Suburbans as farm vehicles. Same for the older Broncos and I was sad to see them go away in favor of luxury trucks. The older versions were useful niche vehicles that didn't try to be anything more than a workhorse. A crew cab truck isn't really the same because you lose the interior luggage space, even with a cap over the bed you can't just reach around for the luggage like you could with an old 'Burban or Bronco.

ZV

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
Because it is wasteful. Why should I respect someone for being wasteful? That's like asking me to respect someone for not recycling...or throwing their trash on the side of the road.

Your Maxima is wasteful too. You don't need a V6. You could easily be driving a little Civic with the base engine and getting mid 30's instead of mid 20's for mileage. It just depends on where the line is drawn.

ZV

I see your point. I'll go trade in my Maxima, which is paid for, for a Suburban tomorrow. Gas is cheap and I hear you can get a really good deal on one right now...if you can qualify for the loan that is.

Clearly you do not see the point if this is your reaction. If the Maxima is already more car than you need, as I claim, then the Suburban is only making things worse. If you were really following my line of thought, you'd have made a comment about trading in the Maxima for a VW Jetta TDI or other similarly high-mpg car.

The point isn't to argue about why you own your current car; the point is to illustrate that the line you're trying to draw is very, very subjective and that, to others, your own choices may very well appear just as profligate as an SUV driver's choice appears to you.

You are happy that a choice has been removed from the marketplace because that choice has been, in your opinion, abused. I agree that the choice has been abused, however I cannot ever be happy to see a choice disappear when there is at least some segment that has a legitimate claim to that choice.

ZV

I think that there will always be options in that market, they will just be limited to the relatively low demand that there was in the past. I'll refine my point to state that I'm happy to see that people are starting to buy more efficient vehicles.

Fair enough?

I realize that the Maxima is not the most eco-friendly car and that it isn't great on gas...in fact it is very mediocre in that respect. However, I do not drive it much and it does fit the needs of my relatively small family of 3.

It's funny, I just took it in for service this morning. Just routine maintenance and realized that between April and today I've only driven the car 2,900 miles.

 

[foghorn67]

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
I think that there will always be options in that market, they will just be limited to the relatively low demand that there was in the past. I'll refine my point to state that I'm happy to see that people are starting to buy more efficient vehicles.

Fair enough?

I realize that the Maxima is not the most eco-friendly car and that it isn't great on gas...in fact it is very mediocre in that respect. However, I do not drive it much and it does fit the needs of my relatively small family of 3.

It's funny, I just took it in for service this morning. Just routine maintenance and realized that between April and today I've only driven the car 2,900 miles.

Most of my friends that own large trucks and SUV's don't drive far. Most work at home, and the furthest driving commuter faces a 12 mile round trip.
It really sucks that you have an elitist mindset that thinks everyone's lifestyle should match yours.
They drive what they want, because they can. Just like you.

 

[JulesMaximus]

Originally posted by: foghorn67

Originally posted by: JulesMaximus
I think that there will always be options in that market, they will just be limited to the relatively low demand that there was in the past. I'll refine my point to state that I'm happy to see that people are starting to buy more efficient vehicles.

Fair enough?

I realize that the Maxima is not the most eco-friendly car and that it isn't great on gas...in fact it is very mediocre in that respect. However, I do not drive it much and it does fit the needs of my relatively small family of 3.

It's funny, I just took it in for service this morning. Just routine maintenance and realized that between April and today I've only driven the car 2,900 miles.

Most of my friends that own large trucks and SUV's don't drive far. Most work at home, and the furthest driving commuter faces a 12 mile round trip.
It really sucks that you have an elitist mindset that thinks everyone's lifestyle should match yours.
They drive what they want, because they can. Just like you.

I'm not twisting anyone's arms to buy fuel efficient vehicles. They are doing this on their own. Why does everyone get on my case because I'm happy that people are making, IMO, better decisions when it comes to buying vehicles?