GM disbands unit that creates high-performance vehicles

[Strk]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
Damn that is fairly significant.

I'm sure they'll bring back certain performance vehicles once they get back to profitability.

Sweet, I'm going to start saving up for the 2019 Corvette!

Hopefully, it will only be a year or two for that.

 

[boomerang]

Originally posted by: Viper GTS
Wow that is sad news indeed. Is there any chance that the Corvette will survive this butchering? I mean I can see axing performance versions of the HHR (wtf?) but losing the Corvette?



Viper GTS

I've been saying for months that the Corvette is dead. It doesn't sell in sufficient numbers to keep it alive. Combine that with ever increasing CAFE requirements, and the hand writing is on the wall.

I also predicted that the Camaro will be produced for one model year only and will be shelved. They'd shelve it now, but it's too far along to stop without taking a total beating on the investment. I expect we'll see the Camaro die in conjunction with a total pullout of their operations in Canada.

GM is in big, big trouble guys. I feel we are going to end up with one domestic automaker when the dust settles and it will be Ford.

(The Camaro would be the car to buy, drive straight home and store it in a bag for 3 or 4 decades. One year of production, from a bankrupt car company that was once the largest in the world. A true investment.)

 

[LTC8K6]

When was the last time GM was profitable?

Obama cannot allow those UAW votes to disappear. He will continue to pump money into GM and Chrysler for as long as it takes. He and the Dems cannot allow bankruptcy.

 

[PingSpike]

I don't really see why this is either surprising or stupid on their part. It just doesn't sound like a profitable division. Its like with video cards...its nice to have the fastest one out so you can brag in sales literature and get your brand out there...but nobody really buys that one. They buy the midrange stuff.

 

[Raduque]

No more Vs? Those were the only interesting Caddys. I wonder how this is going to affect things like the Pontiac G8. It shares a motor and transaxle with the Z06, doesn't it?

 

[Arkaign]

Hold on people. As long as GM is still alive and operating, I don't see them killing anything beyond 'development' of new performance vehicles. I don't see any indications that they're going to stop production of performance vehicles, which wouldn't make much sense anyway due to the issues of sunk costs. Also, Corvette sells fine, check the production numbers here :

http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/specs/

C5 and C6 have been good sellers for a ~$50k car for their entire run. C4 didn't sell that well in the 90s, but that was because it pretty much sucked.

They will kill vehicles when the cost of production can't be covered by the sales and distribution of those vehicles, including costs associated with government nannying, taxes, etc.

 

[ayabe]

They need to get the damn Camaro off the line and into people's hands, i was reading yesterday that there's some lawsuit between GM and one of the suppliers who makes interior parts over who gets to keep the machines in lieu of their pending bankruptcy of the supplier, so it could be delayed even more.

Gotta get something in the showrooms that excites people, even if it's the last gasp, get 'em in showroom then sell them an Aveo, whatever just get it done.

 

[JJ650]

Originally posted by: Raduque
No more Vs? Those were the only interesting Caddys. I wonder how this is going to affect things like the Pontiac G8. It shares a motor and transaxle with the Z06, doesn't it?

Good question, but the G8 isn't done on GM's HPV line. It's manufactured by Australia's Holden division.

 

[JulesMaximus]

I think you're going to see a number of auto manufacturers cutting out the projects that net them the least amount of return in the coming years.

 

[Kadarin]

Originally posted by: Ktulu
This sucks. At least the folks aren't being let go. They might have good insight on how to make their current bread and butter products better (as long as the accountants stop medalling with the designs).

Not to nitpick, but the word is "meddling", as in "to meddle". Slightly different from the idea of accountants awarding gold medals to the designs.

 

[Ktulu]

Originally posted by: Kadarin

Originally posted by: Ktulu
This sucks. At least the folks aren't being let go. They might have good insight on how to make their current bread and butter products better (as long as the accountants stop medalling with the designs).

Not to nitpick, but the word is "meddling", as in "to meddle". Slightly different from the idea of accountants awarding gold medals to the designs.

hahahaha, thanks, I typed that up quickly and didn't feel like checking google.

 

[boomerang]

Originally posted by: Arkaign
Hold on people. As long as GM is still alive and operating, I don't see them killing anything beyond 'development' of new performance vehicles. I don't see any indications that they're going to stop production of performance vehicles, which wouldn't make much sense anyway due to the issues of sunk costs. Also, Corvette sells fine, check the production numbers here :

http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/specs/

C5 and C6 have been good sellers for a ~$50k car for their entire run. C4 didn't sell that well in the 90s, but that was because it pretty much sucked.

They will kill vehicles when the cost of production can't be covered by the sales and distribution of those vehicles, including costs associated with government nannying, taxes, etc.

And I think you've hit the nail on the head. Maybe we can agree to disagree as far as the sales numbers but your last sentence speaks plenty. I'll elaborate on it some. You've got a single plant in Kentucky that essentially builds only that car. The Cadillac numbers are so low that there is no sense even counting them. When I say being out in the middle of nowhere, what I'm really getting at is that there are no other GM plants nearby. Spring Hill, but they are an assembly plant that still had some stamping capacity last I knew, but AFAIK, they produce nothing for the Corvette (not a sheet metal car). The hydroformed frame rails are produced in Pontiac. Both the steel and aluminum versions. I'm getting off track but the point I'm trying to make is that every component for the car has to be shipped in. The platform is used on only one vehicle (remember, low numbers on the caddy) so it's tough to justify the expenditure. Maybe not tough, maybe no business case could be made for it at all.

If you've ever toured the plant, the production line runs so slow that my wife asked me if it was actually moving. They run a one shift operation and the seniority of their employees has got to be close to the highest, if not the highest in the corporation. The point? It will be easy to get rid of the employees. The plant has got to be heated, maintained, taxes paid, etc., etc. Will they continue to make the product they're producing now? Most likely. The tooling is in place and probably paid for by now. Will they produce the next generation - no. How long will they produce the current model? They're saying Saturns life cycle will end in 2011. They'll continue to produce Corvette's until the end of the life cycle or until sales fall to a number where it makes no financial sense to make any more. The latter is already here IMO. Remember this company is in big trouble and they can't afford to keep a plant open for the sake of nostalgia.

The market for a car in that price range exists in such small numbers that it's essentially dead.

It costs roughly a billion to bring a new car to market. A billion and a half to construct a new plant. I don't know the figures to re-tool a plant for a new model, but if you include deconstruction, design, materials, construction, transportation, installation (this entails extensive reworking of electrical and piping), troubleshooting, tuning in and training for the workers (plus everything I've overlooked) and this figure could easily be 100 million to 200 million. If somebody knows the costs, post them as I would not be surprised if it's twice that.

I don't think the General can afford to take a loss having high performance vehicles manufactured to try to build excitement in their brands. It hasn't worked in a long time and I don't see that changing. If you really want a Corvette, but can't afford it, you don't settle for an Impala. If you really want the new Camaro but can't afford it, you don't buy a G6. GM's hi-po oriented customers want that car, not something lessor.

Hey, I don't everything by any means. I have no inside scoop. If I sound like I think I know it all, I apologize for coming off that way. These are just my thoughts.

 

[Arkaign]

Things aren't too bad yet : http://www.corvetteblogger.com...er-2008-Corvette-Sales

As long as yearly figures are in the ~20k range, at $50k+/each, they're a pretty big cash cow.

 

[theeedude]

So we are bailing them out to build unexciting products and lay off people?

 

[Ktulu]

Originally posted by: senseamp
So we are bailing them out to build unexciting products and lay off people?

Nobody really building anything exciting anymore in that case. Honda has nothing exciting, neither does Toyota. It makes more sense to spend the money they're going to save doing this into their bread and butter vehicles and hopefully bring them fully up to par.

 

[theeedude]

But we already have Honda and Toyota making boring cars, what's the point of saving GM if they aren't bringing anything extra to the table?

 

[Ktulu]

Originally posted by: senseamp
But we already have Honda and Toyota making boring cars, what's the point of saving GM if they aren't bringing anything extra to the table?

I guess it depends on the individual. As long as we still have the CTS, Corvette, Camaro, G8, Solstice, hopefully the Cruze comes quickly, I would say GM still has some pretty exciting cars. It doesn't matter to me that there's no special performance version, they're pretty sweet on their own.

 

[boomerang]

Originally posted by: senseamp
But we already have Honda and Toyota making boring cars, what's the point of saving GM if they aren't bringing anything extra to the table?

Congress isn't concerned about whether cars are boring or not. In fact they don't know anything about the car business at all.

What they want is more fuel efficiency and lower emissions. If you're going to add $2k to $4K to the cost of a car to meet those requirements, and the public is already unhappy with the cost of a car, you're going to have to make them functional. Not exciting, not high performance, functional. Point A to point B. There's a segment of our society that wants just that. Unfortunately, they're a small segment and the majority of them can't afford one anyway. We've got a number of them here. Longing for the $10K car with all the bells, whistles and styling.

You factor in the state of our economy, and the reluctance of lenders to lend and the reluctance of purchasers to borrow, well, you've got a recipe for disaster.

IMO

 

[JeffreyLebowski]

Originally posted by: Naustica
Not only is this the end of Cobalt SS and CTS-V, it's end of ZR1 and Z06. Closing of High Performance Vehicle Operations is likely the signal of the end of the Corvette line in the future. It's not looking good for GM.

Shit whatever, The Vette makes money. They can't make them fast enough.

I'm sad to see that the V8 Canyon/Colorados won't make it. That would have been a beast. I would have gotten one when I was truck shopping as the z71 package looks awesome and the interior is nice, just the i-5 is a dog and can't get out of it's own way.

 

[91TTZ]

Originally posted by: Naustica
Not only is this the end of Cobalt SS and CTS-V, it's end of ZR1 and Z06. Closing of High Performance Vehicle Operations is likely the signal of the end of the Corvette line in the future. It's not looking good for GM.

Let me get this straight...

We bailed them out so they could ditch development of icons like the Corvette and focus on bland econoboxes which trail the Japanese in fuel economy, performance, looks, comfort, and price? And they expect to return to profitability this way?

I think we should have let our free market economy run like a free market economy. That means letting unprofitable companies go out of business. As bad as it sounds for a major US company to go out of business, it's even worse to socialize the loss and turn it into a money pit that consumes your hard earned cash.

 

[boomerang]

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Originally posted by: Naustica
Not only is this the end of Cobalt SS and CTS-V, it's end of ZR1 and Z06. Closing of High Performance Vehicle Operations is likely the signal of the end of the Corvette line in the future. It's not looking good for GM.

Let me get this straight...

We bailed them out so they could ditch development of icons like the Corvette and focus on bland econoboxes which trail the Japanese in fuel economy, performance, looks, comfort, and price? And they expect to return to profitability this way?

I think we should have let our free market economy run like a free market economy. That means letting unprofitable companies go out of business. As bad as it sounds for a major US company to go out of business, it's even worse to socialize the loss and turn it into a money pit that consumes your hard earned cash.

When you're the government's bitch, you do what the government wants. See my post above for details.

 

[JJ650]

Originally posted by: JeffreyLebowski

Originally posted by: Naustica
Not only is this the end of Cobalt SS and CTS-V, it's end of ZR1 and Z06. Closing of High Performance Vehicle Operations is likely the signal of the end of the Corvette line in the future. It's not looking good for GM.

Shit whatever, The Vette makes money. They can't make them fast enough.

I'm sad to see that the V8 Canyon/Colorados won't make it. That would have been a beast. I would have gotten one when I was truck shopping as the z71 package looks awesome and the interior is nice, just the i-5 is a dog and can't get out of it's own way.

Some are out on the roads. Chevrolet's site still have them in the build options (not too sure how swift their intarwebs department is though).

I know SLp already has mods for it. It may not see any further development, but it IS out there.

 

[BUTCH1]

Originally posted by: LOUISSSSS
sales per division of cars speaks for itself. if they're not selling, they're not profitable; then cut.
GM is doing what they think will keep them alive. that IS the honest truth. isn't "patriotism" being a fanboy? i see that all over these forums.

and for that guy above who commented on what he thinks i drive; i drive an 05 accord v6. got a problem? it hasn't been to the dealer or shop once in the past 4 years.

4 years?, your due for an oil change, as for the "fanboi" comments against you, you deserve it, you come on every thread with nonsense like "Japanese are cheaper to repair" with nothing to back it up. This is the US of A and if you don't like patriotism, GTFO..

 

[LOUISSSSS]

Originally posted by: BUTCH1

Originally posted by: LOUISSSSS
sales per division of cars speaks for itself. if they're not selling, they're not profitable; then cut.
GM is doing what they think will keep them alive. that IS the honest truth. isn't "patriotism" being a fanboy? i see that all over these forums.

and for that guy above who commented on what he thinks i drive; i drive an 05 accord v6. got a problem? it hasn't been to the dealer or shop once in the past 4 years.

4 years?, your due for an oil change, as for the "fanboi" comments against you, you deserve it, you come on every thread with nonsense like "Japanese are cheaper to repair" with nothing to back it up.This is the US of A and if you don't like patriotism, GTFO..

i do my own oil changes along with other fluid changes.

dont have time to do research for you, but we can do some together with me, go to your car dealer and get a quote on how much it'd be to fix a wiring problem with the headlights? say its not the bulb, and its not the signal stalk. without anymore info, ask them generally how much it'd be to fix? I had another accord fixed for $50 which also included a new bulb.

why? i like living here, but nobody says you need to be patriotic or "buy american" to live here. i'll buy the best car my money can get me. i'll even tell you why i purchased the accord. i got it for $24.5 NEW; accord EX v6 w/ navi + leather. i purchased it for the following reasons: it has always has the highest reliability among cars sold in america. it has the highest resale rating in its class. 5 star safety rating, fully loaded w/ power everything leather navi 6 disc etc. it was faster than all american cars in the same class and price range. it is cheaper to fix (yes, it is cheaper to fix in NYC.) aftermarket parts are way more widely available for the accord than ANY american car in the same class. please say "continue" if you want me to continue the list of why i purchased it over any GM.

This is the US of A and if you don't like patriotism, GTFO..

"THIS IS THE US of A and if YOU LIKE IT, STOP BUYING PRODUCTS MADE OUTSIDE OF THE US, OR GTFO," else don't make comments like those.

 

[Pariah]

Camaro SS and Corvette ZR1 are safe despite disbanding of GM performance division

"Nothing could be further from the truth as GM spokesman Vince Muniga has revealed to Edmunds. This is because cars like the Camaro SS, Corvette ZR1 and Corvette Z06 are all regularly engineered. "They did not go through HPVO. Most people did not realize that. They are safe," Muniga said."

As for other models like the Cadillac CTS-V, Muniga explained that the performance saloon is a regular part of the CTS lineup and that it will stay for the foreseeable future. "The CTS-V will continue through the life cycle of the product. If they are regular production cars, they will continue through the model run, whether it's an SS Cobalt or an SS HHR."




Uhhh...OK. So basically every car that people thought were going away aren't, because either they aren't actually HPVO, or they are HPVO but are "regular production cars." So what exactly is going away? Can anyone name an HPVO that isn't considered a regular production car, since this GM spokesperson didn't?