GM Crying Over Better MPG Standards

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: compuwiz1
The Yukon Denali's are selling quite well. I work in a GMC store. People who have the money to buy them, just don't care about economy.

They will about the time they run out of oxygen, or the local glacier is flooding their basements.

 

[Buck Armstrong]

Who cares? I'm sick and tired of every other car being an SUV or fullsize pickup truck. I can't even fvcking see in traffic anymore; SUV to my right, left, and front. I'm boxed in by a bunch of trendy oil-sluts every minute of my commute. Does nobody watch the god$#@* news but me?

If you need a fullsize pickup for work, then sorry (but be honest for fvck's sake). Otherwise, kiss my ass. You're an irresponsible, selfish piece of dog$#@* who doesn't need a gigantic SUV to haul around your fat wife and one kid.

 

[compuwiz1]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: compuwiz1
The Yukon Denali's are selling quite well. I work in a GMC store. People who have the money to buy them, just don't care about economy.

They will about the time they run out of oxygen, or the local glacier is flooding their basements.

Of course, Harvey, but you and I both know, most Californians live for TODAY.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: International Machine Consortium

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: redgtxdi

Originally posted by: BlancoNino

Originally posted by: bctbct
BTW foreign car makers fuel ecomy is not better on bigger cars with bigger engines.

Very true. If Toyota starts building a truck that gets the exact same gas mileage as a GMC Sierra, will their be a consumer fee on that?

Probably not. I think it's pretty evident that even our own government likes foreign cars better than our own........(aside from those bitchin' lookin' Suburbans in the presidential caravan)

However, if both automakers were put to the test to create a 1-ton truck that gets the best mpg it can, given a specific criteria on weight, mass, size, engine size, etc... etc............I'd put all of my money on Toyota and probably borrow a little more to bet ta' boot!!!! :thumbsup:

Amazing then how GM's 6.0L V8 full-size trucks get the same or better gas mileage as Toyota's 4.7L V8 Tundra, eh?
Cool... paypal me all your money now.

Brainwashed tool. :roll:


edit: there's a lot of reason to dislike American cars, but the fuel economy reason is for the idiots who know jack sh!t about cars in general. Pound for pound, displacement for displacement, power per power, GM cars get the best gas mileage bar none. A Corvette Z06 gets 26 hwy with 505 bhp.

Oh really? What are you towing with that Corvette? :roll:

I tell you what, it wouldn't get 26 with ME driving it.

Why do you have to use language such as IDIOT, BRAINWASHED TOOL, JACK SH!T MORON?

I ask merely for information?
Or are you towing 10 CY of crushed stone with your Corvette again.



:laugh:

You missed the point. And I use that language because it's the truth. You conceitedly spout propagandist brainwashed nonsense that flies in the facts, and it's annoying like a buzzing fly. Toyota already manufactures commercial trucks for foreign markets, and they don't get better gas mileage than GM's comparable products. That's why Toyota doesn't bring them here to the US, despite how eager they are to break into that lucrative truck/SUV market.
Like I posted above but you quoted and ignored, "Amazing then how GM's 6.0L V8 full-size trucks get the same or better gas mileage as Toyota's 4.7L V8 Tundra, eh?"

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Harvey

Originally posted by: compuwiz1
The Yukon Denali's are selling quite well. I work in a GMC store. People who have the money to buy them, just don't care about economy.

They will about the time they run out of oxygen, or the local glacier is flooding their basements.

:Q OH NOES!! We're all going to die! Quick, buy a Prius to park next to the Hummer!! :Q:Q


:roll:

 

[compuwiz1]

Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong
Who cares? I'm sick and tired of every other car being an SUV or fullsize pickup truck. I can't even fvcking see in traffic anymore; SUV to my right, left, and front. I'm boxed in by a bunch of trendy oil-sluts every minute of my commute. Does nobody watch the god$#@* news but me?

If you need a fullsize pickup for work, then sorry (but be honest for fvck's sake). Otherwise, kiss my ass. You're an irresponsible, selfish piece of dog$#@* who doesn't need a gigantic SUV to haul around your fat wife and one kid.

So, do you outwardly think like that in traffic? Now I know where road rage comes from. Here's a clue: People who buy and drive what they want, do not base their buying decision on how YOU may potentially feel about it. You can choose to drive conservative type cars, and if you do, that's your business. I don't care. Just don't putt along too slow in front of me.

Here is a place, you might like, where they don't like SUV's

 

[Vic]

It's amazing the things you learn on ATPN. For example, I had no idea that only Ford and GM sold fullsize trucks and SUV's... or that GMs cause global warming but Toyotas don't... or that people who call themselves Democrats eagerly await the loss of tens of thousands of high-paying union jobs at domestic auto manufacturers...

So yeah, if I lash out the occasional harsh word, maybe YOU should look at the self-evident stupidity you post.

 

[Elfear]

Originally posted by: International Machine Consortium


There are 4 cylinder diesel trucks that produce more torque than daddy's POS gas hog.

http://trucks.about.com/od/autobuying/a/torque.htm

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2006/07/mitsubishifuso_.html

Stop being suckered by the American car companies. The government needs to let them die the death they so richly have earned.

Which 4 cylinder diesel trucks are you referring to? The hybrid-diesel in the 2nd link? Even with both the electric motor and the diesel engine working together they only produce ~170hp and ~300ft-lb. GM's smallest truck V8, the 4.8L, produces 305ft-lb. The largest V8 produces 375ft-lb. I'm sure Ford's and Dodge's truck V8s have similiar output (in fact Dodge's V-10 produces 450ft-lb). Where are you getting the information for your presumption?

I believe that the search for mpg has it's place but there are good reasons to buy a vehicle that isn't the most economical in the world. Little hard to cram a bunch of kids in a Honda Fit or tow a large payload with a RAV4.

Besides, if we let American car companies die where would we get our cheap horsepower fix??

 

[Aftermath]

Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong
Who cares? I'm sick and tired of every other car being an SUV or fullsize pickup truck. I can't even fvcking see in traffic anymore; SUV to my right, left, and front. I'm boxed in by a bunch of trendy oil-sluts every minute of my commute. Does nobody watch the god$#@* news but me?

If you need a fullsize pickup for work, then sorry (but be honest for fvck's sake). Otherwise, kiss my ass. You're an irresponsible, selfish piece of dog$#@* who doesn't need a gigantic SUV to haul around your fat wife and one kid.

Uggh, who cares is right.

Why do people care so much about what other people drive? Guess what, if you could take every person out of every truck or large SUV and put them in smaller vehicles, it would not make a profound effect on oil consumption or global pollution. There are far larger contributing factors, and any slack created in oil consumption in one place would quickly be picked up somewhere else. Everybody is responsible for wasting energy. It's just too easy to point fingers at SUV drivers because they're obvious and clear for anyone to point a finger at.

Disclaimer: I'm not an SUV driving "oil-slut."

 

[Corn]

Originally posted by: Vic
It's amazing the things you learn on ATPN. For example, I had no idea that only Ford and GM sold fullsize trucks and SUV's... or that GMs cause global warming but Toyotas don't... or that people who call themselves Democrats eagerly await the loss of tens of thousands of high-paying union jobs at domestic auto manufacturers...

So yeah, if I lash out the occasional harsh word, maybe YOU should look at the self-evident stupidity you post.

Quoted for.....well, just because.

 

[WiseOldDude]

Originally posted by: BlancoNino
Redgtxdi, GM is hardly going down the tubes. They still sell more vehicles than any other company on the planet.

Not for long, Toyota will kick their ass next year, this dinasoar that is unable and unwilling to change, as this thread proves.

 

[Tom]

GM makes good fuel efficient small engines and transmissions.

Toyotas are overpriced, 30 grand for a Rav4 ??

 

[BlancoNino]

Originally posted by: International Machine Consortium
There are 4 cylinder diesel trucks that produce more torque than daddy's POS gas hog.

Please show me where I can pick one up that will tow a 8,000+ lb trailor please. I would love to purchase this truck so that I can tow anything I want and still get 30mpg.

 

[compuwiz1]

And for the people blowing their horns for imports, they have their problems too. Look at the Nissan Titan. It's the most unreliable full sized pickup, period.

Predicted reliability

Four models from Nissan -- the Quest, Armada, Titan and the Infiniti QX56 -- are on Consumer Reports' list of 2006 models with the worst predicted reliability. But the new Infiniti M35 and M45 are among the most reliable models.

 

[bobdelt]

Originally posted by: catnap1972

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper

"For one thing, it puts us, the domestic manufacturers, at odds with the desires of most of our customers, namely larger vehicles,"

Then why are sales of the larger vehicles/SUVs dropping?

If they can boast that they can increase the MPG every year; then apply some more technology to it.
It may cause some retooling, but the ability to increase the MPG does exists.

It is the price/profit that worries GM & Ford - that will dictate the market share.

Of course--they were nice and comfy sitting on their asses popping those belcher SUVs out like candy (and pocketing $10K+ profits on each), but now they're whining when they got caught with their pants pulled down.

isnt toyota doing the same thing with their hybrids right now?

its called busines...get over it. Those profits is whats paying for the current R&D. And it wasnt like GM is the only car company, and i doubt the industry was in collusion.

 

[boomerang]

Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
It may cause some retooling, but the ability to increase the MPG does exists.

Please elaborate on this.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: redgtxdi

Originally posted by: BlancoNino

Originally posted by: bctbct
BTW foreign car makers fuel ecomy is not better on bigger cars with bigger engines.

Very true. If Toyota starts building a truck that gets the exact same gas mileage as a GMC Sierra, will their be a consumer fee on that?

Probably not. I think it's pretty evident that even our own government likes foreign cars better than our own........(aside from those bitchin' lookin' Suburbans in the presidential caravan)

However, if both automakers were put to the test to create a 1-ton truck that gets the best mpg it can, given a specific criteria on weight, mass, size, engine size, etc... etc............I'd put all of my money on Toyota and probably borrow a little more to bet ta' boot!!!! :thumbsup:

Amazing then how GM's 6.0L V8 full-size trucks get the same or better gas mileage as Toyota's 4.7L V8 Tundra, eh?
Cool... paypal me all your money now.

Brainwashed tool. :roll:


edit: there's a lot of reason to dislike American cars, but the fuel economy reason is for the idiots who know jack sh!t about cars in general. Pound for pound, displacement for displacement, power per power, GM cars get the best gas mileage bar none. A Corvette Z06 gets 26 hwy with 505 bhp.

Aint that the truth. You hear people slaping their privates over foreign disesals. Ohh they get 40 mpg yappity yap yap. Nevermind the fact you are comparing a 200 hp gasoline engine with a 105 hp diesal. De-nut the gasoline engine and watch as it gets similar performance.

I just dont think people will enjoy taking 8 minutes to get upto speed to get on a 70+mph freeway. Afterall we have to power all the safety improves leglislated by our govt pushed by the same people slapping away over those diesals.

 

[3chordcharlie]

Originally posted by: BlancoNino

Originally posted by: International Machine Consortium
There are 4 cylinder diesel trucks that produce more torque than daddy's POS gas hog.

Please show me where I can pick one up that will tow a 8,000+ lb trailor please. I would love to purchase this truck so that I can tow anything I want and still get 30mpg.

If you're towing 8000lbs regularly, and you aren't using a diesel, there's probably somehting seriously worng with your buying logic.

Big gas V8s have one advantage - they're cheap to manufacture. In terms of truck performance and fuel efficiency under load, they suck, and always will compared to a diesel.

There is no good reason that a 3L diesel with a 50-60 lb-ft electric boost (available at zero rpm) wouldn't tow your trailer nicely, and get better mileage both loaded and unloaded than a 5-6L (or larger!) gas engine.

 

[imported_dna]

Originally posted by: Genx87
I just dont think people will enjoy taking 8 minutes to get upto speed to get on a 70+mph freeway. Afterall we have to power all the safety improves leglislated by our govt pushed by the same people slapping away over those diesals.

The real problem is extra-short merge lanes, courtesy of some brain-damaged planner. At some places it is so ridiculously short, that you'd think that they forgot to install the catapult.

Also, what about safety improvements? How do they require more power?

 

[ayabe]

I have no problem with people buying big pickups if they need them for their job.

What I do have a problem with is the soccer mom with two kids who thinks she needs a Suburban or an Expedition to drive to the grocery store. I see so many people(women mostly) who are driving these enormous vehicles for simple errands; many of whom can hardly reach the pedals. Hummers are equally bad, I have never, ever seen one with any mud on it.

I guess part of it is a security thing but most of the these huge SUV's will turn over trying to execute an emergency maneuver at anything over 45 mph, so they are in fact not safer. They are also much more dangerous for everyone else on the road, Honda Accord vs. Expedition and the Honda owner is toast in a crash.

As others have mentioned I wish more people would opt for Diesels for their big pickups, you are going to get more torque than with a gas motor and overall I think they are more reliable. But diesel is more expensive than premium gas where I live and they don't accelerate as well generally. Every neck in town with a gas truck needs to have his straightpipes and his 4" lift for muddin', yeee-haw.

Edit - My dad has an F-350 Dually and with the turbo diesel and that thing really scoots for something so heavy, so I don't buy that diesels are too slow.

 

[Genx87]

Also, what about safety improvements? How do they require more power?

I dont have a problem with safety improvements. However the size\weight of the cars have gone up dramactically in the past 30 years from these improvements. With that, the requirement for larger engines to push that extra weight.

So on one hand you have people whining about the gas guzzlers while trying to tack on that extra 1/4th inch armor plate so the kiddies can survive a crash with a semi-truck without even losing focus on the PSP they are playing.

 

[outriding]

Originally posted by: Genx87


Aint that the truth. You hear people slaping their privates over foreign disesals. Ohh they get 40 mpg yappity yap yap. Nevermind the fact you are comparing a 200 hp gasoline engine with a 105 hp diesal. De-nut the gasoline engine and watch as it gets similar performance.

I just dont think people will enjoy taking 8 minutes to get upto speed to get on a 70+mph freeway. Afterall we have to power all the safety improves leglislated by our govt pushed by the same people slapping away over those diesals.

Diesels have more torque, and it is what you need to get up to speed.

HP is worthless unless you drive your car redlined every where you go.

The Pontiac G5 has about 148hp 152 lb-ft of torque with 25/34 gas mileage 0-60 in 8.8

The Jetta TDI has 100hp and 177 lb-ft of torque with 35/42 gas mileage 0-60 in 10.3

For me I can deal with 1.5 sec for 9ish mpg.

But your idea of a 100hp slow deisel is crap.

 

[Jhhnn]

The part that GM is whining about is the fact that they've ignored the inevitability of tighter standards for many years, concentrating production and marketing on gas-guzzlers, even as their Japanese competitors earned years of accumulated credits in terms of CAFE standards.

So their short-sighted greed catches up to them, even as they attempt to obfuscate the simple fact that much of demand is a creation of marketing rather than vice versa... Remember all the ads as to whose product is biggest and baddest? Sure as hell wasn't Toyota...

The vast majority of heavy duty pickups rarely tow anything, or carry anywhere near their rated load capacity, and the vast majority of monster SUV's usually have one person onboard for all but a small fraction of total mileage. Even the most cursory observation of the world around us reveals that.

So automakers need to adjust their pitch to consumers, and consumers need to make slight adjustments to their desires. Yeh, sure real work vehicles will always be available, but those who need them will only drive them as necessary, not using them as commuter vehicles...

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: outriding

Originally posted by: Genx87


Aint that the truth. You hear people slaping their privates over foreign disesals. Ohh they get 40 mpg yappity yap yap. Nevermind the fact you are comparing a 200 hp gasoline engine with a 105 hp diesal. De-nut the gasoline engine and watch as it gets similar performance.

I just dont think people will enjoy taking 8 minutes to get upto speed to get on a 70+mph freeway. Afterall we have to power all the safety improves leglislated by our govt pushed by the same people slapping away over those diesals.

Diesels have more torque, and it is what you need to get up to speed.

HP is worthless unless you drive your car redlined every where you go.

The Pontiac G5 has about 148hp 152 lb-ft of torque with 25/34 gas mileage 0-60 in 8.8

The Jetta TDI has 100hp and 177 lb-ft of torque with 35/42 gas mileage 0-60 in 10.3

For me I can deal with 1.5 sec for 9ish mpg.

But your idea of a 100hp slow deisel is crap.

hah I never made any claims about the speed of a diesal vs gasoline engine. And my example was obviously sarcasm.

However people dont compare apples and oranges and then wonder why one has better gas mileage.

 

[Strk]

Originally posted by: outriding

Originally posted by: Genx87


Aint that the truth. You hear people slaping their privates over foreign disesals. Ohh they get 40 mpg yappity yap yap. Nevermind the fact you are comparing a 200 hp gasoline engine with a 105 hp diesal. De-nut the gasoline engine and watch as it gets similar performance.

I just dont think people will enjoy taking 8 minutes to get upto speed to get on a 70+mph freeway. Afterall we have to power all the safety improves leglislated by our govt pushed by the same people slapping away over those diesals.

Diesels have more torque, and it is what you need to get up to speed.

HP is worthless unless you drive your car redlined every where you go.

The Pontiac G5 has about 148hp 152 lb-ft of torque with 25/34 gas mileage 0-60 in 8.8

The Jetta TDI has 100hp and 177 lb-ft of torque with 35/42 gas mileage 0-60 in 10.3

For me I can deal with 1.5 sec for 9ish mpg.

But your idea of a 100hp slow deisel is crap.

I'd suggest you look at the Ford Focus or Honda Civic diesel (yes, not available in the U.S.). They're actually faster than their similarly priced gas versions.

VW is also upgrading their diesel to a 2.0l. Diesels used to be slow. The U.S. has been stuck with old diesels for quite some time. I'd say just look at the engines available in Europe. They're great.