GM and Chrysler

[LordMorpheus]

I thought the primary reason that automatics were more common in drag racing wasn't the consistancy but more that there is no transmission that'll take more power than the powerglide transmission.

 

[KentState]

Originally posted by: LordMorpheus
I thought the primary reason that automatics were more common in drag racing wasn't the consistancy but more that there is no transmission that'll take more power than the powerglide transmission.

I also thought that the benefits of a high stall torque converter as well as the torque multiplication was a major advantage.

 

[Gillbot]

Originally posted by: sjwaste

Originally posted by: Gillbot

Who would pick a Lotus Elise for a serious drag car anyway. 😉

I dunno what kind of car I would pick to dress up like a girl in..

oh, you meant the racing kind.

404 funny not found.

 

[LOUISSSSS]

Originally posted by: sjwaste

Originally posted by: LOUISSSSS
you're aware that nobody really buys manual transmissions right?

that tranny will prob come out to under 10% of their sales of the fusion, which will already have trouble turning in profit compared to its competitors.

You're very intelligent. You managed to deduce that because they'll produce 5% as manuals, sales of manual Fusions will be less than 10% of their total sales. I'm not sure how you got that so quickly.

The Fusion is being well-reviewed across the board. The only way they lose money on manuals is if they cost more to produce than they sell them for, the manuals cannibalize auto sales and autos have a higher margin, or they produce more manuals than there is demand to purchase.

The first isn't feasible. The second is unknown because Ford doesn't exactly give away it's ABCs. That leaves the third option, misunderstanding demand. I'll believe that Ford can better estimate demand for manual transmissions than you can, so let's just see how this pans out.

i'm pretty intelligent in estimating that it is "less than 10%" includes 5%. meaning that anything they sell won't really affect their profit margins, at the most 5% of their fusion's total revenue. they can also lose money by not bringing in enough revenue to cover the cost of R&D and other misc costs of putting the fusion into the market. Its not just "selling the car for more than it costs them to make it" they need to MAKE HUGE PROFITS to stay in the competitive automotive industry.

the fusion has some very tough competitors. competitors that are more luxurious, competitors that are more sporty, competitors that win more awards, competitors that have higher resale, competitors that don't threaten bankruptcy (yes, it did; when it went to washington to beg for $$). the list goes on. The fact is that the ford is likely not on the top of all those lists, so its not the "best" choice.

 

[Arkaign]

Louissss, at the risk of beating a dead horse, you continue to show gross ignorance. Ford doesn't need to make huge profits to stay in the industry, they just need a sustainable business model. The basis of this is profits, but not necessarily 'huge' profits. You also forget that things are incremental. Let's say that XXX,XXX Fusions are sold yearly, but XX,XXX people skipped the Fusion because it didn't offer a manual transmission. Now this hypothetical figure may only be 5-10% of the total number of automatic Fusions sold, but when it is added to the existing number, it adds sales by offering a product that can appeal to more buyers.

As for your last paragraph, that's just silly. NO car is ever a hands-down best car in everything. EVERY car is a compromise, be it a Fusion, an Accord, or a Veyron. The important thing is for people to find the right set of variables, including intangibles such as styling and 'feel', to get the job done for that particular customer. For some customers, a Fusion will be a fantastic choice, for others, it might be a Honda Fit, for others, a used Wrangler, and so on and so forth. As long as the car isn't a terrible match for what they want (ie; someone buying a Kia and planning to trade-in in 3 years), you have to respect that.

Your overlong signature, general ignorance, and incredibly obtuse bias that shows while you vomit FUD all over our forum is beginning to wear out its welcome.

Also, Ford hasn't taken any bailout $$$, http://adventurebooks.newsvine...need-or-want-a-bailout , and they look to be in a pretty good position to ride out this storm. Don't forget, EVERY large car maker walked into a shitstorm with this economic downturn. Some fared better than others, but nobody dodged the downturn. Etc..

 

[alphatarget1]

me likey! If I have the choice between a quality domestic and an import I'd buy a domestic any day. Kudos to ford for making a sweet car. When my dad's accord actually breaks I'll buy him one of these puppies.

 

[LOUISSSSS]

^^2^^

ford needs pretty huge profits to overcome this depression. this may be due to: their car's sales prices remained the same/lowered. But their costs went up, and sales declined hugely. Basically, they need more than to just break even after selling their fusions at a small profit. they need to make up for the lack of sales in all of their other divisions (compact doesn't do well, suv's have fallen off, and their full size isn't competitive with toyotas and nissans.

not getting bailout money isn't a + in my book. it may be in yours, then you must have pretty low standards. firms are not supposed to get bailout money. its survival of the fittest out there. if you cheat and help out the weak, they're just going to die off eventually anyway because they're not fit for the market. Don't be so mad that your domestic cars are dying, your balls aren't going to get any smaller.

a car is capable of dominating their market. look at the 3-series, if you remove the subjective stuff, it is pretty much the best compacy luxury car. that is just 1 example thats in my mind at this hour. how about the Odyssey?

everyone is entitled to their own opinion. you as well as some of ATGarage are on domestic cock for no other reason other than "patriotism." they obviously aren't a good firm. A firm is here to make a profit. 2 of the 3 domestic firms (including the largest of the 3) are losing money big time.

its actually not a bias for supporting a manufacturer who has vehicles who have dominated the market for over 20 years. They are the away team, playing in a hugely "patriotic" playing field. you don't see many american cars taking top spots in japan very much, nor germany, nor in america. I guess the american firms don't really make good cars now. Maybe in the 60's when there was no competition! maybe the f-150, but the USA are the only ones who drive pick up trucks and most do it for reasons other than utility.

The thread crapping and insults stop NOW. It's entirely possible for you to argue your position without using phrases like, "your balls aren't going to get any smaller" and, "on domestic cock". This is the last warning you'll get. Next time it's a vacation.

Zenmervolt - AnandTech Garage Moderator

 

[alphatarget1]

Originally posted by: LOUISSSSS
*snip*

It's my money, I get to do what I want with it. I drive an import (subaru legacy wagon) because they sold what I wanted. If I get a choice between domestics and imports at around the same quality and reliability, why wouldn't I get a domestic? I'd buy a domestic over any Euro-trash any day of the week if I want a reliable vehicle. Good luck paying thousands of dollars to pay for your MB's maintenance when I can get a Caddy for much less (especially used) and probably have a cheaper bill when it goes to the shop.

 

[Fenixgoon]

Originally posted by: LOUISSSSS
rant

i don't know where to begin...

you know all companies need to make profit, right? *everyone* is losing money right now. even toyota posted losses. i guess they don't know how to make cars since they posted a loss, right? oh wait, there's something called an economic recession :roll:

what fusion competitors are more sporty or luxurious? the fusion is a mid-size sedan with some luxury amenities, available V6, AWD, and a hybrid version with 41 MPG. so what competes with it, exactly?

you do know that the 3 series gets outsold by the A4 in Germany, right?

hah, you criticize people for using patriotism to buy cars and then you mention that no american cars take awards in japan. you do know that the japanese are fiercely nationalistic when it comes to products like cars, electronics, etc, right?

one last thing - the Ford F150 has been the best selling *VEHICLE* for 23 years RUNNING. that means it outsold all other trucks, sedans, econoboxes, sports cars, and luxury vehicles. Like it or not, americans like trucks.

 

[Bignate603]

Originally posted by: LOUISSSSS
^^2^^

ford needs pretty huge profits to overcome this depression. this may be due to: their car's sales prices remained the same/lowered. But their costs went up, and sales declined hugely. Basically, they need more than to just break even after selling their fusions at a small profit. they need to make up for the lack of sales in all of their other divisions (compact doesn't do well, suv's have fallen off, and their full size isn't competitive with toyotas and nissans.
[/b]

No, they don't. They only need to make enough to get by. If they cover their cost on each car going out the door and make a reasonable amount to cover the development then that's a win during economic downturn. Every car company is trying to do the same thing. They've stopped trying to make large profits and have set their sights on getting through this.

 

[Gillbot]

Originally posted by: Bignate603

Originally posted by: LOUISSSSS
^^2^^

ford needs pretty huge profits to overcome this depression. this may be due to: their car's sales prices remained the same/lowered. But their costs went up, and sales declined hugely. Basically, they need more than to just break even after selling their fusions at a small profit. they need to make up for the lack of sales in all of their other divisions (compact doesn't do well, suv's have fallen off, and their full size isn't competitive with toyotas and nissans.
[/b]

No, they don't. They only need to make enough to get by. If they cover their cost on each car going out the door and make a reasonable amount to cover the development then that's a win during economic downturn. Every car company is trying to do the same thing. They've stopped trying to make large profits and have set their sights on getting through this.

+1, most companies are hoping for at least a "break even" scenario. If they pull that off, it's a win in anyones book. The only loss is a complete closure.

 

[Arkaign]

LOUISSSSS .. I don't know where you get off thinking that I'm biased towards domestic vehicles. I've owned more imports than domestics, and most of them have been very good. I still rave about my old Preludes when an opportunity arises. I'm about as fair-minded as they come in here, which means NOT jumping to conclusions, or spamming every thread with a pro or negative against an entire region of cars. You'll never find a post where I say that American cars are better than Japanese, or vice versa, and so on. You're blinded by stereotypes that were true twenty years ago for the most part, but have no bearing on today. A Ford Taurus in 1989 was pretty disposable (my family had an '87 Taurus MT-5, and yes, it was a piece), whereas an '89 Accord was pretty solid. Flash forward to 2009, and the Ford product (and the GM's, for that matter) are more or less on par, better in some respects, and behind in others, of the leading Japanese brands. Following that, I'd easily take a Ford or Chevy over a Suzuki or a Mitsubishi. And on the same token, I'd happily pick a Honda or Toyota over a Chrysler product.

You accuse me of bias with no evidence or understanding of what is going on in today's markets, and yet you show tremendous bias yourself. Dislike of a particular brand due to poor styling, poor quality, poor value, that is all understandable. Condemning a whole nation or region of manufacturers based upon personal fanboyism, hatred, or other illogical inspirations is just asinine.

You're right about one thing in a certain way. I AM proud of my country, and am patriotic in my own way. My brand of patriotism isn't blind though, it's acknowledging the very real faults we have, while celebrating the good that our nation offers, and doing my part to making this a better country for our children. This is not a flag-waving, jingoistic patriotism, but a quiet, deep, dependable hope for what we stand for, and what possibilities are out there for any of us.