Glycol concentration MUST be >20% warns expert

[superstition]

I've seen a lot of different posts in forums with different concentration suggestions for glycols. It's common to see people say 10% and 15%.

This source says something quite surprising and alarming:

In the case of glycol loops, verifying that the glycol concentration is more than 20% is critical. At levels less than this (for chilled and out of service hot loops), rapid biological degradation of either ethylene or propylene glycol to an assortment of organic acids and intermediate products, will take place.

Water Treatment In Closed Systems — ASHRAE Journal

Darrell Hartwick is the technical marketing manager with Eclipse Chemical Company in Baie D’Urfé, Quebec.

link

This is the first I've heard of glycol molecules disintegrating from not having an adequate concentration!


This explains why EK warns against diluting its coolant concentrate beyond its recommended dilution level. I'd rewrite the warning to say "If you do this your coolant will disintegrate!". Otherwise, people might be tempted.

I wonder how many failures people have had with various coolant mixtures are related to them trying to stretch their dollar and/or get better performance by diluting them too much.

The author defines a hot loop as being at least 140F by the way.

 

[Rubycon]

Apples vs. Oranges comparison.

Glycol products do NOT belong in a PC cooling circuit, PERIOD!
The best cooling medium is distilled or RO/DI water with the highest possible purity. For microbial defense a few coiled strips of 99.99% pure silver are all that's needed.

The coolant temperature must be kept within a degree or two of ambient temperature for best results as well.

And another thing, the water should be kept as dark as possible. This means black tubing and if reservoirs are transparent they should be shielded and kept as dark as possible. Lighting up the box (and water through transparent hoses and reservoirs, block tops, etc.) is the WORST possible thing you can do for stability of your coolant!

Unless of course you enjoy a very high maintenance environment.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Hmm. Sadly we have folks who are strongly against using silver, especially when nickel-plated blocks are concerned:

https://forums.anandtech.com/thread...lable-come-in-and-chat-with-me.2471503/page-2 <-- start with #36

Not saying that you're wrong, it's just that it's hard to go that road if/when your warranties are going void over it.

 

[Rubycon]

Using nickel plated blocks puts the category into fashion over form. There's zero point to clear (acrylic) tops and if you're pure copper or even acetel over copper what's the point in plating nickel over the copper? Most of manufacturers of hobbyist pc watercooling gear don't have a clue on proper preparation for nickel plating. This is why there are so many complaints of issues which wouldn't be in there in the first place if they observed procedures established by the scientific community dating back to the 50s. (laser liquid cooling)

But as mentioned earlier, folks like their 1000 lumen LED bars and pretty swirling coolant behind plexiglass reservoirs which that pearlescent effect is derived from nothing more than bird poop! I remember the name "Mayhem" and indeed that's what it showered the community with.

 

[DrMrLordX]

It just seems like a lot of vendors/manufacturers are pushing gear that basically makes it difficult/impossible to use kill coils. If people are happy with pre-mixed stuff then hey, go for it, I guess . . .

 

[Rubycon]

Solid copper blocks aren't going to have any issues with silver as an antimicrobial agent.
The more things added to the fluid, the higher risk of its performance getting affected in a negative way. Illuminating the fluid with blue and green LEDs is the worst possible thing one could do regardless of what "snake oil" is added to the circuit. Things go downhill quickly from there.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Yeah it's all about that bling.

So I'm guessing the nickel plating on blocks is for aluminum rads, no?

 

[Rubycon]

Aluminum radiators are going to require treatment to prevent corrosion and tub pitting. AIO system use Al radiators and their coolant is treated with corrosion inhibitors. Most enthusiast add on radiators will be copper (fan coil style) or bronze (tank style).

 

[Mark R]

Glycol is known to breakdown into acids such as oxalic acid or glycolic acid. This is particularly the case where air is allowed into a system, and was a major issue in early organic formulations of automotive coolant (e.g. dexcool). The classical inorganic inhibitor based automotive systems were highly alkaline with a large excess of alkali, and this prevented glycol breakdown into acids being a major issue; but when organic acid inhibitors were introduced, the solution had very little pH buffering capability and if air became entrained, the glycol would oxidise and the pH of the solution would shift to acid and result in severe corrosion.

In this type of closed system, the issue is not direct chemical oxidation, but biological attack by microbes. This could be mitigated by using an appropriate biocide to prevent bacterial growth. However, at sufficiently high concentrations, glycols tend to be inhibitory to microbial activity, and this is generally a simpler option for industrial use.

The formulation of corrosion inhibitors is, as far as I can tell, a bit of a black art rather like voodoo and microwave electronics. The best solution is to find something that someone has got to work, and copy it exactly.

 

[Rubycon]

Yes dissolved oxygen is always a real issue. Boiling the water and allowing to cool with as little surface disruption as possible can reduce dissolved O2 from the system initially. Reservoirs need a bit of room for expansion and should have as little turbulence as possible at any surface. The "waterfall" effect devices for show are exactly something one doesn't want because of this.

Of course a lot of enthusiasts are nearly continually breaking down their system so this isn't a real issue is it? But if you want a trouble free system for many months/years, it's certainly possible taking these precautions.

 

[MongGrel]

Apples vs. Oranges comparison.

Glycol products do NOT belong in a PC cooling circuit, PERIOD!
The best cooling medium is distilled or RO/DI water with the highest possible purity. For microbial defense a few coiled strips of 99.99% pure silver are all that's needed.

The coolant temperature must be kept within a degree or two of ambient temperature for best results as well.

And another thing, the water should be kept as dark as possible. This means black tubing and if reservoirs are transparent they should be shielded and kept as dark as possible. Lighting up the box (and water through transparent hoses and reservoirs, block tops, etc.) is the WORST possible thing you can do for stability of your coolant!

Unless of course you enjoy a very high maintenance environment.

I still so not have a computer in the house using water cooling, but have ran/programed many industrial CNC Wire EDM machines in the past.

There is a reason they use DI water, and many shops have DI water for mixing with the coolant in even CNC Mills and Lathes.

It is not something a lot of people have access to, but distilled would be the next best thing.

 

[aigomorla]

Yeah it's all about that bling.

So I'm guessing the nickel plating on blocks is for aluminum rads, no?

its mostly because we didnt want the copper to tarnish and turn brown which will happen on the non wetted part.
And using polish was a no no, as it added a layer of heat transfer prevention to the copper that was polished.

by nickle plating it, it stays shiny and doesnt oxidize to something brown.


Personally i will not touch glycol or its premix's.
The only warranty i need is that the block does not leak, and if its constructed properly, it will do that.
Also most of the warranty coverage is in regards to people asking for a new block when the nickle failed.
If you have a construction defect where the block fails due to manufacturer process, i highly doubt any of the vendors will care what coolant you used more so then RMAing the block back to see how it failed and warn the other customers if there block has the potential to fail before they start getting massive rage posts on forums.