Glen Beck: "Obama is a racist"

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: Phokus
Can't reach youtube, here's the full text:

snip

Nowhere does he link the two, in fact , he goes on to say:

"And even when there are honest misunderstandings, the fact that blacks and Hispanics are picked up more frequently, and oftentime for no cause, casts suspicion even when there is good cause."

Signifying that because of the disproportionate amount of stops/arrests of minorities, minorities would be prone to being more suspicious of those arrest even with 'good cause'. That in no way blames this incident on race and in fact says that Gates' experience and the experience of so many african americans may have led him to jump the gun even if the reason was a good reason to stop him.

The reason why your original point was 'too pointed' is because you hear what you want to hear based on your worldview and it's quite obvious you subscribe to the conservative hysteria surrounding this case, throwing out any facts that absolve Obama while absorbing in the heated rhetoric, even if based on a lie.

You had me until the bolded part. Seriously, I was impressed there for a moment. Honest question: can you have a discussion with someone with an opposing viewpoint without employing childish attacks based on even more childish/simplistic assumptions? I'm trying to work with you here, Phokus, so help me help us, ok? 😉

Now, you need to watch the actual speech. There are nuances to the actual speech that cannot be captured in text, and you know this. You claim that I'm merely subscribing to the "conservative hysteria", whatever that is, and that it has dominated my impression of what was said in Obama's speech. I'm sorry, but concluding that I'm wrong is just not as simple as pigeonholing me into a group of fringe followers that, collectively, are your boogieman. What dominates my impression of Obama's remarks is that, despite his attempt to distance racial profiling from the Gates incident, he can't help but go on and on about it in the context of the Gates incident. Subconsciously, he ties two together at some level, which is what I was speaking to in my original comment. If he truly believed the two were separate, then the last third of his speech would not have been dedicated to the topic of racial profiling. The question asked of him was, "what does the incident say about race relations in America." If it said nothing of race relations in America, why did Obama spend more than a third of his time talking about it? Seems odd.

Edit - fixed quote

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: jbourne77
LOL it's quite the circle jerk you guys have going on here! Is it BYOS (Bring Your Own Sock)?

So sayeth the Pivot Man:roll:

Seems to me we have a bunch of angry white men who can't stand the fact that their President is black.

An excellent example of knowing just enough to be dangerous... allow me. You are obviously confusing me with JSt0rm01 😉 .

Now, getting to the second half of your ridiculous post: I voted for Obama. Search for it. To this day, I prefer him over McCain. How you arrived at insinuating that I'm just an angry white man who can't stand that our President is black is beyond me. Perhaps it's just your biases - political and perhaps otherwise - shining through. My comments were the result of this whole thread being dedicated to an extreme rightwing entertainer and using his lunatic rantings to mug an entire political party (to which I do not even belong, mind you), which is quite humorous to witness. A classic circle jerk. It would be like watching a rightie raving about Micheal Moore, and using his behavior to color any Democrat. Please. It's lame and unimaginative, as were your comments.

 

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: Phokus
Can't reach youtube, here's the full text:

snip

Nowhere does he link the two, in fact , he goes on to say:

"And even when there are honest misunderstandings, the fact that blacks and Hispanics are picked up more frequently, and oftentime for no cause, casts suspicion even when there is good cause."

Signifying that because of the disproportionate amount of stops/arrests of minorities, minorities would be prone to being more suspicious of those arrest even with 'good cause'. That in no way blames this incident on race and in fact says that Gates' experience and the experience of so many african americans may have led him to jump the gun even if the reason was a good reason to stop him.

The reason why your original point was 'too pointed' is because you hear what you want to hear based on your worldview and it's quite obvious you subscribe to the conservative hysteria surrounding this case, throwing out any facts that absolve Obama while absorbing in the heated rhetoric, even if based on a lie.

You had me until the bolded part. Seriously, I was impressed there for a moment. Honest question: can you have a discussion with someone with an opposing viewpoint without employing childish attacks based on even more childish/simplistic assumptions? I'm trying to work with you here, Phokus, so help me help us, ok? 😉

Now, you need to watch the actual speech. There are nuances to the actual speech that cannot be captured in text, and you know this. You claim that I'm merely subscribing to the "conservative hysteria", whatever that is, and that it has dominated my impression of what was said in Obama's speech. I'm sorry, but concluding that I'm wrong is just not as simple as pigeonholing me into a group of fringe followers that, collectively, are your boogieman. What dominates my impression of Obama's remarks is that, despite his attempt to distance racial profiling from the Gates incident, he can't help but go on and on about it in the context of the Gates incident. Subconsciously, he ties two together at some level, which is what I was speaking to in my original comment. If he truly believed the two were separate, then the last third of his speech would not have been dedicated to the topic of racial profiling. The question asked of him was, "what does the incident say about race relations in America." If it said nothing of race relations in America, why did Obama spend more than a third of his time talking about it? Seems odd.

I don't care if you think it's a childish assumption i make of you, you tilt pretty far to the right (especially in economics), which i cannot even begin to understand why any academic economist would do when the more logical approach would be pragmatism.

I don't' know how more explicit Obama could be, he clearly separates the two ideas apart. Nowhere does he 'subconsciously' tries to tie them together. Gates was the one who made it about race and Obama NEVER affirmed his position.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: jbourne77
LOL it's quite the circle jerk you guys have going on here! Is it BYOS (Bring Your Own Sock)?

So sayeth the Pivot Man:roll:

Seems to me we have a bunch of angry white men who can't stand the fact that their President is black.

An excellent example of knowing just enough to be dangerous... allow me. You are obviously confusing me with JSt0rm01 😉 .

Nope I wasn't confusing you with another

Now, getting to the second half of your ridiculous post: I voted for Obama. Search for it. To this day, I prefer him over McCain. How you arrived at insinuating that I'm just an angry white man who can't stand that our President is black is beyond me. Perhaps it's just your biases - political and perhaps otherwise - shining through. My comments were the result of this whole thread being dedicated to an extreme rightwing entertainer and using his lunatic rantings to mug an entire political party (to which I do not even belong, mind you), which is quite humorous to witness. A classic circle jerk. It would be like watching a rightie raving about Micheal Moore, and using his behavior to color any Democrat. Please. It's lame and unimaginative, as were your comments.

Well at least according to you but I don't put much stock in your opinion. In addition, just because I posted that comment after quoting you I wasn't necessarily singling you out , thus the words "Bunch" and "Seems" It might not be a fact but it just seems like it is as all those calling him a racist are white guys who always are decrying those of color for being racists.

BTW, my son is so much more mature than you:laugh:😉 Of course at times he's more mature than me and almost all the other knuckleheads that spend hours bickering in here over ridiculous bullshit.

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: Phokus
I don't care if you think it's a childish assumption i make of you

If you want to be taken seriously, you should care. It's what other mature adults expect of you. Time and time again, I have seen you try to wrap people up in nice neat little packages that are easy to attack. It's not that simple. If you're truly a man concerned with logical approaches, I cannot even begin to understand why you would make it so ... unpleasant ... for people to interact with you. Let me ask you this: when you come here, are you interested in a two-way discussion, sharing your ideas, teaching someone, and learning from someone, or is it more a matter of being determined to make someone agree with your ideas?

Originally posted by: Phokus
you tilt pretty far to the right (especially in economics), which i cannot even begin to understand why any academic economist would do when the more logical approach would be pragmatism.

Ahh, I see what you did there 😉 . I lean right economically because I'm a pragmatist. You and I just happen to disagree on what economic solutions are most practical. But again, you've chosen your viewpoint, and all others are of lesser value. My education in economics coupled with life experiences have led me to my, yes, right-leaning economic philosophies. It was not by chance. However, I am *ALWAYS* evaluating my positions, and try to remain flexible enough that they are not fixed. Five years ago, I considered myself a Republican. Fortunately, I was not married to the idea.

 

[lupi]

Originally posted by: Modelworks
I don't think Obama is a racist, but I do think he is biased more towards issues that effect blacks.

Exactly becks point, cause if it was a "white guy" with the same bias the peanut gallery here would be screaming racist charges.

Yet as we know from our friends here, or as they say (much of it in this thread) assholes, dipshits, shitheads, nutjobs, etc...if you're black then you can't be a racist.

 

[Modelworks]

Originally posted by: miketheidiot


any real catholic would vote democrat, and feel guilty doing it.

Fixed

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
So sayeth the Pivot Man:roll:

Seems to me we have a bunch of angry white men who can't stand the fact that their President is black.

An excellent example of knowing just enough to be dangerous... allow me. You are obviously confusing me with JSt0rm01 😉 .

Nope I wasn't confusing you with another

Now, getting to the second half of your ridiculous post: I voted for Obama. Search for it. To this day, I prefer him over McCain. How you arrived at insinuating that I'm just an angry white man who can't stand that our President is black is beyond me. Perhaps it's just your biases - political and perhaps otherwise - shining through. My comments were the result of this whole thread being dedicated to an extreme rightwing entertainer and using his lunatic rantings to mug an entire political party (to which I do not even belong, mind you), which is quite humorous to witness. A classic circle jerk. It would be like watching a rightie raving about Micheal Moore, and using his behavior to color any Democrat. Please. It's lame and unimaginative, as were your comments.

Well at least according to you but I don't put much stock in your opinion.

I wouldn't expect you to. One of us avoids broad, baseless generalizations, the other basques in them. I'm usually just happy knowing where we all stand; I'm not here to cure cancer 😉 .

 

[Modelworks]

Originally posted by: lupi

Originally posted by: Modelworks
I don't think Obama is a racist, but I do think he is biased more towards issues that effect blacks.

Exactly becks point, cause if it was a "white guy" with the same bias the peanut gallery here would be screaming racist charges.

Yet as we know from our friends here, or as they say (much of it in this thread) assholes, dipshits, shitheads, nutjobs, etc...if you're black then you can't be a racist.

Well people are always going to be biased toward what they are most familiar with. Obama may be part white but he wasn't raised as white and his skin color isn't white. He knows life from that perspective so he is going to be biased towards it. I can't fault him for that. If you had Ghandi in as president he would be spending less on the military and more on feeding the poor. That doesn't mean he hates the military, it just means he wants to help that cause.

 

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: lupi

Originally posted by: Modelworks
I don't think Obama is a racist, but I do think he is biased more towards issues that effect blacks.

Exactly becks point, cause if it was a "white guy" with the same bias the peanut gallery here would be screaming racist charges.

Yet as we know from our friends here, or as they say (much of it in this thread) assholes, dipshits, shitheads, nutjobs, etc...if you're black then you can't be a racist.

I'm going to hold a vigil for all the white people who are disproportionately stopped by police because they're white just for you lupi.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Medellon

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Medellon
Let's see, what kind of ratings does your god Olberman pull in? Yeah I thought so. Leave Beck alone because contrary to what you liberals think on here, very few people believe the way you do.

At least in El Paso Texas . I bet GLen Beck, Sean Hannity, Oxcy Limbaugh and Lyndon LaRouche are very popular there.

Let's see 80% of El Paso is Hispanic and while people claim Hispanics tend to live their lives conservatively, a big majority vote Democrat. Some of the biggest hypocrites I know are hispanic people in general. Most are Catholic and go to church regularly, make the sign of the cross when passing a church, have a ton of religious symbols at home, yet vote straight ticket democrat.

You must be the guy Kinky Friedman wrote this song about

 

[Athena]

Originally posted by: Modelworks
I don't think Obama is a racist, but I do think he is biased more towards issues that effect blacks.

I don't think that's true at all. I think he is more aware of the racial overtones in some issues than the average politician people are used to listening to. That awareness doesn't make him biased at all. IOW, the fact that someone highlights something that you may not have seen, doesn't make the observer "biased" in favor of what was observed.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: jbourne77
I wouldn't expect you to. One of us avoids broad, baseless generalizations, the other basques in them. I'm usually just happy knowing where we all stand; I'm not here to cure cancer 😉 .

Interesting seeing that your attitude seems carcinogenic

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: jbourne77
I wouldn't expect you to. One of us avoids broad, baseless generalizations, the other basques in them. I'm usually just happy knowing where we all stand; I'm not here to cure cancer 😉 .

Interesting seeing that your attitude seems carcinogenic

Certainly a trait that is wholly my domain, eh 😉

 

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: jbourne77
If you want to be taken seriously, you should care. It's what other mature adults expect of you. Time and time again, I have seen you try to wrap people up in nice neat little packages that are easy to attack. It's not that simple. If you're truly a man concerned with logical approaches, I cannot even begin to understand why you would make it so ... unpleasant ... for people to interact with you. Let me ask you this: when you come here, are you interested in a two-way discussion, sharing your ideas, teaching someone, and learning from someone, or is it more a matter of being determined to make someone agree with your ideas?

Here's why i don't care what some internet person thinks of me

http://forums.anandtech.com/me...AR_FORUMVIEWTMP=Linear

I can throw study after study from the New England Journal of Medicine, Annals of Internal medicine, and Rand corporation showing the efficacious nature of the VA hospital system while conservatives can only offer anecdotal 'evidence' as a counterpoint and even go as far to basically say their 'gut feeling' leads them to believe these studies are biased and wrong without any reason why this is so (there's no WAY government can be this good!!!!oneoneone)

Even one of my detractors had this to say:

Originally posted by: eskimospy
What is really happening here is I'm watching a bunch of people ideologically opposed to government health care ignore studies and attempt to place anecdotal evidence on the same footing as actual studies on the matter because they don't want to deal with information that conflicts with their already established opinions. Sorry guys, I know that Phokus trolls a lot... but in this thread he's got you guys cold.

Sorry, but your ideals are intractable. If you guys didn't succumb so much to cognitive dissonance every time your theories got shot down and actually had an open mind about things, then yeah, we could work from there.

Ahh, I see what you did there 😉 . I lean right economically because I'm a pragmatist. You and I just happen to disagree on what economic solutions are most practical. But again, you've chosen your viewpoint, and all others are of lesser value. My education in economics coupled with life experiences have led me to my, yes, right-leaning economic philosophies. It was not by chance. However, I am *ALWAYS* evaluating my positions, and try to remain flexible enough that they are not fixed. Five years ago, I considered myself a Republican. Fortunately, I was not married to the idea.

That's not pragmatic at all. You basically believe that the free market produces superior outcomes in all or most situations. If we were living a few decades ago, i could see how you could adopt this point of view when we only had neo-classical economics (plus a few other ideas) to lean on, but in the advent of the advances in the study of economics (especially behavioural economics), i find it highly ridiculous any economist could subscribe to an ideology one way or another.

 

[Modelworks]

Originally posted by: Athena

Originally posted by: Modelworks
I don't think Obama is a racist, but I do think he is biased more towards issues that effect blacks.

I don't think that's true at all. I think he is more aware of the racial overtones in some issues than the average politician people are used to listening to. That awareness doesn't make him biased at all. IOW, the fact that someone highlights something that you may not have seen, doesn't make the observer "biased" in favor of what was observed.

It becomes bias when you do things related to that awareness that you would not have done otherwise. Like the recent comment about the police acting 'stupidly'.

 

[Superrock]

Obama is the best thing to ever happen to Glen Beck.

 

[Athena]

Originally posted by: Modelworks
It becomes bias when you do things related to that awareness that you would not have done otherwise. Like the recent comment about the police acting 'stupidly'.

I'm not sure I understand what you are saying here. What is the "otherwise" in this case? There seem to be a fair number of law enforcement types who think Crowley should have left Gates stewing on his porch so how is the President's statement a indication of bias.

The thing that really gets me about this whole affair is that Obama did not voluntarily speak up/out about the incident. He was asked a question at a briefing and he said that he felt it was stupid for a policeman, having already determined that the person in question had a legal right to be there, should then arrest him for mouthing off. You may disagree with that but the fact that the President felt that way is not evidence of "bias" just because the person in question was black.

 

[Stuxnet]

Originally posted by: Phokus
Here's why i don't care what some internet person thinks of me

Like it or not, your disposition impacts whether or not the facts and ideas you present are accepted, because to be accepted, they must first be considered. People won't take the time to consider them if they don't feel there's reason to. It's not a matter of "caring what some internet person thinks of me." Believe me, I can understand that. It's why I don't do research for strangers on the Internet. Regardless, you can't get frustrated that people won't consider the information you present when it's covered in layers of toxic hate and propaganda.

 

[Athena]

Originally posted by: Modelworks
Obama may be part white but he wasn't raised as white and his skin color isn't white. He knows life from that perspective so he is going to be biased towards it.

Actually, he was raised more white than black. Except for the 4 years he spent in Indonesia, he was in the predominately white environment of his mother and grandparents. I saw an interview with him during the campaign in which he talked about campaigning for the Senate in Illinois: he said he he found it as easy to work with constituents outside of Chicago as those from, because outside the city the environment was comfortably reminiscent of life with his grandparents.

It wasn't until he went to Columbia that he had any real association with anyone black and not until his work in Chicago was he surrounded by black culture. That was one of the reason people like Sharpton and Jackson claimed he wasn't "black enough" to merit the support of other blacks.

 

[nobodyknows]

Originally posted by: Superrock
Obama is the best thing to ever happen to Glen Beck.

LOL, I'd have to say it was a close contest between Obama and FOX.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: jbourne77

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: jbourne77
I wouldn't expect you to. One of us avoids broad, baseless generalizations, the other basques in them. I'm usually just happy knowing where we all stand; I'm not here to cure cancer 😉 .

Interesting seeing that your attitude seems carcinogenic

Certainly a trait that is wholly my domain, eh 😉

It permeates from AM talk Shows and Cable News Shows. You just ratchet it up a notch with your fascination of group masturbation.

 

[Phokus]

Originally posted by: jbourne77
Like it or not, your disposition impacts whether or not the facts and ideas you present are accepted, because to be accepted, they must first be considered. People won't take the time to consider them if they don't feel there's reason to. It's not a matter of "caring what some internet person thinks of me." Believe me, I can understand that. It's why I don't do research for strangers on the Internet. Regardless, you can't get frustrated that people won't consider the information you present when it's covered in layers of toxic hate and propaganda.

Yes, that works in the real world, not this forum where it's extremely polarized. Whether the argument is made by me or any other person, no minds will be changed.

The ONLY time i've seen that happen is this particular forum:

http://forums.somethingawful.c...display.php?forumid=46

Mostly liberals vs libertarians vs a very few handful of republicans and almost all the libertarians switched to the liberal side after a lot of rigorous debate after several years. An anomaly of sorts for an internet forum.

 

[Modelworks]

Originally posted by: Athena

Originally posted by: Modelworks
It becomes bias when you do things related to that awareness that you would not have done otherwise. Like the recent comment about the police acting 'stupidly'.

I'm not sure I understand what you are saying here. What is the "otherwise" in this case? There seem to be a fair number of law enforcement types who think Crowley should have left Gates stewing on his porch so how is the President's statement a indication of bias.

The thing that really gets me about this whole affair is that Obama did not voluntarily speak up/out about the incident. He was asked a question at a briefing and he said that he felt it was stupid for a policeman, having already determined that the person in question had a legal right to be there, should then arrest him for mouthing off. You may disagree with that but the fact that the President felt that way is not evidence of "bias" just because the person in question was black.

He didn't have all the facts , yet made a judgment based on his personal bias, that is where opinions come from, it is psych 101. He even admitted that himself. What he knew was that Gates was black and based on his experience blacks are mistreated, so he assumed something based on that belief. A belief influenced by his race. Nobody should fault him for that as nobody treats everyone equally.

I don't know all the facts.


I should say at the outset that Skip Gates is a friend, so I may be a little biased here

I think we know separate and apart from this incident is that there is a long history in this country of African Americans and Latinos being stopped by law enforcing disproportionately. That's just a fact. . . .

 

[Modelworks]

Originally posted by: Athena

Originally posted by: Modelworks
Obama may be part white but he wasn't raised as white and his skin color isn't white. He knows life from that perspective so he is going to be biased towards it.

Actually, he was raised more white than black.

It doesn't matter what his parents were. His skin color is not white. That will effect him everywhere he goes because it is the first thing people who are racist will judge someone by. They don't take the time to get to know the person. That has to have had a large impact on his life unless he grew up without any racist people around him. I bet someone in his own family didn't approve. They are not going to come out now and say so because of who he is now. I have seen many bi-racial families and there are always members who do not like that the family is mixed.