give me a reason

oldman420

Platinum Member
May 22, 2004
2,179
0
0
if it is possible i would like to give the kerry supporters a chance to present there side of the debate in a safe "non flaming" spot here at AT.
please if you plan on voting for kerry tell us why and please no flames folks lets let the kerry supporters have there say here
 

PatboyX

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2001
7,024
0
0
because i asked nicely.
please?

actually, i think he could help improve our international standing. especially in reference to a world attempt at "successfully" ending the war in Iraq.
(so there is a reason)
 

oldman420

Platinum Member
May 22, 2004
2,179
0
0
Originally posted by: PatboyX
because i asked nicely.
please?

actually, i think he could help improve our international standing. especially in reference to a world attempt at "successfully" ending the war in Iraq.
(so there is a reason)

i agree

 

GoPackGo

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 2003
6,519
595
126
Originally posted by: oldman420
Originally posted by: PatboyX
because i asked nicely.
please?

actually, i think he could help improve our international standing. especially in reference to a world attempt at "successfully" ending the war in Iraq.
(so there is a reason)

i agree


Vote for Kerry if you want to vote for a party that resorts to forgeries to try to besmirch their opponent.
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
Kerry would bring:

Fiscal responsibility
Diplomacy (Restoring relations with a real foreign policy)
Supporting civil rights
Permanent tax breaks for families earning under $200,000
Increased tax credits for college tuition (I like this one...have a child entering college in a couple of years)
Increased protection of our borders, ports, and chemical/nuclear plants

Kerry would toss aside:

Ideologues
Chickenhawks
 

JHoNNy1OoO

Golden Member
Oct 18, 2003
1,496
0
0
Originally posted by: GoPackGo
Originally posted by: oldman420
Originally posted by: PatboyX
because i asked nicely.
please?

actually, i think he could help improve our international standing. especially in reference to a world attempt at "successfully" ending the war in Iraq.
(so there is a reason)

i agree


Vote for Kerry if you want to vote for a party that resorts to forgeries to try to besmirch their opponent.

Originally posted by: oldman420
if it is possible i would like to give the kerry supporters a chance to present there side of the debate in a safe "non flaming" spot here at AT.
please if you plan on voting for kerry tell us why and please no flames folks lets let the kerry supporters have there say here

My main reason for voting for Kerry is I don't believe the "War on Terror" is working. You aren't going to stop terrorists through might. You only create many more. You stop them by intelligence. Infiltrate their groups with informants and stop their attacks before they happen. I have no problem going on the offensive or "pre-emptive strike" as long as their is 100% evidence that we are in imminent danger. Iraq certainly didn't pose that imminent danger.

Kerry will help bring the world together to realise terrorists, anywhere on the globe, are not in the best interest of any country(big or small) and in a true coalition to stop terrorist activities systematically and swiftly.
 

KB

Diamond Member
Nov 8, 1999
5,406
389
126
Another he is not George Bush response.

I dislike a candidate that uses fear tactics in order to be re-elected. Everything Bush and Cheney talk about is Terrorism. Cheney even went as far as to say that if Kerry was elected we would have another Terrorist attack (http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOL.../09/07/cheney.terror/). This type of campaigning is similar to that of the fearmongering which got Hitler (http://www.thepriceofliberty.o...7/09/fffoundation.htm) into power and the Mcarthy Trials (http://ns.headroyce.org/~us_hi...04/b_al/mccarthy.html).

I urge everyone to read George Orwells "Animal Farm". For fun replace the pigs with the 'Bush Administration', the farmers with 'Terrorists' and the horse with the "American military".
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,268
126
It has been the policy of the current administration that war is the end all of our problems. We have come to the point where war isn't a horror. It's an attractive tool to use. Oh yes, we say how regrettible it is, but we don't even count the bodies. Why? It doesnt support the agenda. War is a video game extension.

That is wrong. War is the last resort and then only when in dire need. No one has yet been able to show that Saddam was a threat to anyone but his own. Speculations aboud, but the best response seems to be something like "well should we wait around to see what happens"? YES YES YES!!!!!!!!

KILLING PEOPLE BECAUSE YOU ARE SUSPICIOUS IS WRONG! Anyone who advocates shooting others because you are merely afraid is a coward.

I have my suspicions about some folks, but I don't hunt them down because the police aren't "doing their job". You keep your eyes open, act if you must in a prudent way, but when you act you had better damn well be right when that action sends a bullet down a barrel.

Kerry has many shortcomings, but he has not shown the lack of understanding that Bush has. Kerry would not have started this Iraq war. I believe instead he would have focused on terrorism in a way that would have promoted world cooperation.

People seem to think that the rest of the world doesnt matter. Well if the world produces terrorists, and if the world knows something about them, then perhaps we should approach other countries using brains, instead of thinking with balls.
 

umbrella39

Lifer
Jun 11, 2004
13,816
1,126
126
Originally posted by: GoPackGo
Originally posted by: oldman420
Originally posted by: PatboyX
because i asked nicely.
please?

actually, i think he could help improve our international standing. especially in reference to a world attempt at "successfully" ending the war in Iraq.
(so there is a reason)

i agree


Vote for Kerry if you want to vote for a party that resorts to forgeries to try to besmirch their opponent.

Funny, I thought you were talking about Bush and the SBVT! Silly me. Pffffffffffft.
 

smashp

Platinum Member
Aug 30, 2003
2,443
0
0
I fell That George Bush Is working Primarily for Corporations and the wealthy. the common Working Man Isnt a Large Priority. The Claim to support the average middle class wage earner by supporting Corporations, de-regulating the Business Enviroment for these companies.

The Last 4 years you have seen more Mega mergers, Loosen federal regulations for corporations, and Corporate welfare Handouts Like no one could ever imagine.

It Has Strengthen Mega corporations....... Less competition.....and I feel Less Opertunity for the average small business Owner to compete. Taxes Are Not Killing small business owners, Health Care Costs and The monopoly-like corporations are Lowering their competitive risks.

We created A medicare drug Benifit Plan where the Priorities Were as follows
1. Drug Companies
2. Insurance companies
3. Senior citizens

We need to Let our government Know that we, not corporations hold the power in this country.

Corporations demand The most from government, but Care more about profit than their country.....


I fell citizens fight To largely be let alone by government, but still care passionatly about their country.




On Top of all that, Congress and Senate is Contolled by the GOP we need a democrat in the Executive to re-establish the balance Of Power, then the Congress will no longer be a rubber stamp.


As much as Bush talks About Uniting Dc and ending polorazation, It will Never Happen in this country unless their is a balance of Power.

If One controls ALL, the divide Will become Much Larger. Anger and Hate Will take the Place of Logic and compromise
 

Gravity

Diamond Member
Mar 21, 2003
5,685
0
0
Originally posted by: conjur
Kerry would bring:

Fiscal responsibility
Diplomacy (Restoring relations with a real foreign policy)
Supporting civil rights
Permanent tax breaks for families earning under $200,000
Increased tax credits for college tuition (I like this one...have a child entering college in a couple of years)
Increased protection of our borders, ports, and chemical/nuclear plants

Kerry would toss aside:

Ideologues
Chickenhawks

Fiscal responsiblity by raisining taxes? I'll kindly ask him and YOU to keep your hands out of MY pockets. I don't want bigger government. He hasn't said a thing about reducing spending how he would implement or institute government responsibility. You have a linky to a specific plan about that?

The permanent tax break for fams under 200k is very attractive but differs very little from the present tax policy.

I also like the increase of tax credits for college tuition but again, where does that money come from? W's plan allows us to take $$ from retirement accts and use it for college w/o penalty. At least that plan is funded.

I also don't see anything specific from JK about how he would better increase our border protection.

That's my beef with JK, nothing specific.

He's gonna have to work harder to get my vote. Sorry, I need more specifics.
 

Ferocious

Diamond Member
Feb 16, 2000
4,584
2
71
I am a FIRM believer in split control of our government....between the Presidency and Congress.

Gridlock seems to work best in this country.....especially if the President is bad. Bush is bad, and Kerry probably would be too.

If the Democrats were in control of Congress......I honestly would vote for Bush.


 

biostud

Lifer
Feb 27, 2003
19,931
7,039
136
Originally posted by: Ferocious
I am a FIRM believer in split control of our government....between the Presidency and Congress.

Gridlock seems to work best in this country.....especially if the President is bad. Bush is bad, and Kerry probably would be too.

If the Democrats were in control of Congress......I honestly would vote for Bush.

It would probably make most americans content, and let those on both wings spew fire and acid ;)
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
Originally posted by: Gravity
Originally posted by: conjur
Kerry would bring:

Fiscal responsibility
Diplomacy (Restoring relations with a real foreign policy)
Supporting civil rights
Permanent tax breaks for families earning under $200,000
Increased tax credits for college tuition (I like this one...have a child entering college in a couple of years)
Increased protection of our borders, ports, and chemical/nuclear plants

Kerry would toss aside:

Ideologues
Chickenhawks

Fiscal responsiblity by raisining taxes? I'll kindly ask him and YOU to keep your hands out of MY pockets. I don't want bigger government. He hasn't said a thing about reducing spending how he would implement or institute government responsibility. You have a linky to a specific plan about that?
1) raisining??
2) Kerry will only repeal the tax cuts to those making over $200,000/yr. He will permanently extend the tax cuts set to expire for people making less than $200,000/yr.
3) Kerry is on the record for saying he will return to the days of "pay-as-you-go" spending. Want to spend money on a new program? Well, you have to find funding for it by cutting a different program.


The permanent tax break for fams under 200k is very attractive but differs very little from the present tax policy.
I beg to differ and so do many others. Trickle-down economics has proven to not work. Didn't work under Reagan nor Bush I and they're not working now.

I also like the increase of tax credits for college tuition but again, where does that money come from? W's plan allows us to take $$ from retirement accts and use it for college w/o penalty. At least that plan is funded.
Perhaps he'll fund it from cutting tax credits to companies that outsource jobs or move their HQs overseas for tax breaks. Other sources would be reduced military spending such as eliminating worthless programs like a missile shield and engaging other countries to help out with stabilizing Iraq and Afghanistan and bringing our troops home, saving lives *and* money.

I also don't see anything specific from JK about how he would better increase our border protection.

That's my beef with JK, nothing specific.

He's gonna have to work harder to get my vote. Sorry, I need more specifics.
Like these?

http://www.johnkerry.com/pdf/our_plan_for_america.pdf
More secure borders.
Our borders are far too porous, especially to cargo that
comes by sea or air. Our plan will improve security at
our borders, seaports, and airports. We will:
? Improve the detection equipment in our shipping
systems,
? Ensure that private companies obtain adequate
information about items they are shipping,
? Work with other nations to increase inspections of
seaborne cargo,
? Adopt tighter controls on air cargo, tons of which
goes uninspected every day,
? Replace the unsuccessful airport screening system
with a new system that identifies security threats while
honoring American values,
? Work with Canada, Mexico, and Caribbean nations
to strengthen border controls, using better technology
and more personnel to improve inspections while
speeding up commerce.
Hardened targets.
We will launch a major effort to harden our critical infrastructure
and most vulnerable targets?from chemical
and nuclear plants to rails, tunnels and key cyber networks
?and better protect them from attack. For example,
there are more than 100 chemical plants where an attack
could endanger more than one million people, and the
40
FBI has warned that al Qaeda may target our chemical
industry. The Bush administration was moving toward a
commonsense solution that would set minimum standards
for safety at chemical plants?but after heavy lobbying
by the chemical industry, they backed down. We
will put safety first. We will:
? Better protect nuclear plants and weapons facilities
as an urgent priority,
? Require new security standards at chemical plants,
including more guards, better fencing, and use of less
dangerous chemicals where possible,
? Improve railroad and subway security by taking
steps such as providing chemical release detectors
and tightening security at critical entry points.
Domestic readiness.
First responders are the first ones up the stairs in the
event of an emergency, and it is wrong that today they
are last in line when it comes to this administration?s
budgets. Our plan will improve domestic readiness so
people on the frontlines have the training and equipment
to respond to any attack with all the speed, skill, and
strength required. In the end, homeland security is not
about changing the alert from yellow to orange; the colors
of safety are firefighter red, EMT white, and police
officer blue. We will:
? Provide assistance to police and fire departments to end
serious shortages of manpower, training, and equipment,
C h a p t e r On e | S e c u r i t y
41
? Modernize our emergency warning system to provide
localized warnings, treat frontline fighters as partners,
and give families all the information they need,
? Enlist citizens in homeland security efforts through an
expanded AmeriCorps national service program, and a
?21st Century Neighborhood Watch? initiative focused
on emergency response needs.
Although there has been progress in preparing for a
bioterrorist attack, we still do not have strong national
leadership in planning or coordination. Our hospitals are
overwhelmed and our public health system cannot handle
large, lethal epidemics of disease. We lack adequate supplies,
drugs, and vaccines. We will:
? Put one person in charge of overseeing all bioterrorism
programs, budgets, and strategic priorities in order to
establish a coordinated, national response strategy,
? Work with state and local leaders to establish the
benchmarks for state and local preparedness required
by law and still missing today,
? Revitalize our public health system to improve
monitoring of disease outbreaks,
? Harness America?s bioscience genius to improve
preparedness for a bioterror attack by creating a
Medical Arsenal of Democracy dedicated to
speeding drug and vaccine development,
OUR PLAN FOR AMERICA
42
? Strengthen our hospitals and ensure they have emergency
plans to address a surge in medical needs under mass
casualty and exposure conditions.
 

chess9

Elite member
Apr 15, 2000
7,748
0
0
On balance, Bush is a disaster and Kerry is a minor slip and fall case.

Bush thinks intelligence is not worth having, Kerry thinks he's the only one who has it.

Bush likes Trek, Kerry likes Serotta. :)

Bush treats the American people like they are all his buddies; Kerry treats them like they are all his children.

Bush thinks evolution means God created the universe, whereas Kerry thinks the universe created God, aka Kerry.

Bush wants to go it alone in Iraq, Kerry wants the help of the U.N., which is exactly the same as going it alone.

Bush believes in trickle up economics and doesn't worry about balancing the budget; Kerry believes in tricky economics but doesn't have a budget.

-Robert
 

PatboyX

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2001
7,024
0
0
Originally posted by: GoPackGo
Originally posted by: oldman420
Originally posted by: PatboyX
because i asked nicely.
please?

actually, i think he could help improve our international standing. especially in reference to a world attempt at "successfully" ending the war in Iraq.
(so there is a reason)

i agree

Vote for Kerry if you want to vote for a party that resorts to forgeries to try to besmirch their opponent.

although i respect what you are getting at, im not entirely sure the democratic party is behind that. i have only read part of a single article on the subject, so i will have to wait on it. but it is a pretty shameful action, if done as you suggest. i just havnt gotten the time to give it my full attention right now. (im at work)
however, im not entirely sure that your response has anything to do with my original post.
and i believe the OP was attempting to cut the anger/personal comments and just see what people were thinking.
 

ciba

Senior member
Apr 27, 2004
812
0
71
Originally posted by: KB
Another he is not George Bush response.

I dislike a candidate that uses fear tactics in order to be re-elected. Everything Bush and Cheney talk about is Terrorism. Cheney even went as far as to say that if Kerry was elected we would have another Terrorist attack

KB, try actually reading the quotes of Cheney. What he said was that we need to elect a president that treats terrorist attacks as acts of war and NOT as criminal activity. Of course, context is overrated. Also, you have a broken link, delete the ")".

The truth of the matter is past presidents treated terrorism as a police issue. We DID have more terrorist attacks (WTC bombing, then USS Cole as an example).

Originally posted by: Conjur
Like these?

I fail to see how one sentence statements constitute specifics. We know the positions of Bush. Kerry just tells us "I'll do X differently," but fails to specify HOW he would handle it differently. As an example, he has a plan to improve security at the borders, but doesn't bring it forward. Wouldn't this be a duty we should expect of him as a senator?

On Top of all that, Congress and Senate
Repetitive redundancy?
 

JHoNNy1OoO

Golden Member
Oct 18, 2003
1,496
0
0
Bush has run this country to the ground in an election year. Can you imagine 4 more years where he doesn't have to worry about re-election? Free to do whatever he wishes, especially if he gets control of the Senate and House again. I sure as hell can and it ain't gonna be pretty.

At least if we elect Kerry we can hold him accountable for what he does 4 years from now. Same cannot be said about Bush.
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
58,686
3
0
Originally posted by: ciba
Originally posted by: Conjur
Like these?

I fail to see how one sentence statements constitute specifics. We know the positions of Bush. Kerry just tells us "I'll do X differently," but fails to specify HOW he would handle it differently. As an example, he has a plan to improve security at the borders, but doesn't bring it forward. Wouldn't this be a duty we should expect of him as a senator?
I find it to be rather specific given that Kerry is not yet in office and is still campaigning.

And, we have no idea what Bush is going to do to protect our homeland. Name me one specific plan of Bush's to protect the ports or chemical and nuclear plants.

On Top of all that, Congress and Senate
Repetitive redundancy?
No, many people refer to the House as Congress, separate from the Senate. It's incorrect, yes, but it happens.
 

Hossenfeffer

Diamond Member
Jul 16, 2000
7,462
1
0
What I've mentioned in a couple threads before is this:

I want to feel proud of being an American. At the moment, I can't say that I'm overly proud of being an American. I put some of the blame squarely on the Bush Administration.

Someone must win the election in November.

Bush has had his chance and I'm ready for someone else to have a shot. I don't feel as if Bush's performance warrants a 2nd term. I think I doubt that he has been the "worst ever", but I am definitely not a fan.

Kerry is the most likely candidate to get enough votes for victory and I feel he is a fair, if not ideal, choice.

Given that "specifics" before an election often get ignored, reversed, etc., it's not as important to me to hear exact plans of what Kerry wants to do. I put a fair amount of faith in the fact that he will surround himself with a knowledgeable cabinet and team of advisors and they will collectively come up with policy decisions.

Kerry's got my vote.
 

piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
17,168
60
91
Below is a list of items taken from a post. You outlined talk about our borders being Pourous. There is no way we can provide real security on our border unless we actually close it. Neither candidate is willing to do that. Did you know that along the southern border of Mexico they have a giant army and they shoot people attempting to cross? We could do the same thing. The army has plenty of night vision goggles and other equipment to detect people when they sneak across our borders. Just put up a few towers and shoot people as the crawl thru under or over the fence. We could easily light the fence up at night or put down some landmines in unpopulated desert areas. Why should we care if some stupid mexican invaders die in the desert? No one is forcing them to invade our country.

I would not send Mexicans back to Mexico, I would instead drop them off on the southermost coast of Peru and invite them to try to find their way back. To Hell with Mexico and the stupid plants we have there. This country does not need to deal with Mexico just close the border and hire some Americans.

Politicians just do not have the guts to do the right thing.

More secure borders.
Our borders are far too porous, especially to cargo that
comes by sea or air. Our plan will improve security at
our borders, seaports, and airports. We will:
? Improve the detection equipment in our shipping
systems,
? Ensure that private companies obtain adequate
information about items they are shipping,
? Work with other nations to increase inspections of
seaborne cargo,
? Adopt tighter controls on air cargo, tons of which
goes uninspected every day,
? Replace the unsuccessful airport screening system
with a new system that identifies security threats while
honoring American values,
? Work with Canada, Mexico, and Caribbean nations
to strengthen border controls, using better technology
and more personnel to improve inspections while
speeding up commerce.
Hardened targets.
We will launch a major effort to harden our critical infrastructure
and most vulnerable targets?from chemical
and nuclear plants to rails, tunnels and key cyber networks
?and better protect them from attack. For example,
there are more than 100 chemical plants where an attack
could endanger more than one million people, and the
40
FBI has warned that al Qaeda may target our chemical
industry. The Bush administration was moving toward a
commonsense solution that would set minimum standards
for safety at chemical plants?but after heavy lobbying
by the chemical industry, they backed down. We
will put safety first. We will:
? Better protect nuclear plants and weapons facilities
as an urgent priority,
? Require new security standards at chemical plants,
including more guards, better fencing, and use of less
dangerous chemicals where possible,
? Improve railroad and subway security by taking
steps such as providing chemical release detectors
and tightening security at critical entry points.
Domestic readiness.
First responders are the first ones up the stairs in the
event of an emergency, and it is wrong that today they
are last in line when it comes to this administration?s
budgets. Our plan will improve domestic readiness so
people on the frontlines have the training and equipment
to respond to any attack with all the speed, skill, and
strength required. In the end, homeland security is not
about changing the alert from yellow to orange; the colors
of safety are firefighter red, EMT white, and police
officer blue. We will:
? Provide assistance to police and fire departments to end
serious shortages of manpower, training, and equipment,
C h a p t e r On e | S e c u r i t y
41
? Modernize our emergency warning system to provide
localized warnings, treat frontline fighters as partners,
and give families all the information they need,
? Enlist citizens in homeland security efforts through an
expanded AmeriCorps national service program, and a
?21st Century Neighborhood Watch? initiative focused
on emergency response needs.
Although there has been progress in preparing for a
bioterrorist attack, we still do not have strong national
leadership in planning or coordination. Our hospitals are
overwhelmed and our public health system cannot handle
large, lethal epidemics of disease. We lack adequate supplies,
drugs, and vaccines. We will:
? Put one person in charge of overseeing all bioterrorism
programs, budgets, and strategic priorities in order to
establish a coordinated, national response strategy,
? Work with state and local leaders to establish the
benchmarks for state and local preparedness required
by law and still missing today,
? Revitalize our public health system to improve
monitoring of disease outbreaks,
? Harness America?s bioscience genius to improve
preparedness for a bioterror attack by creating a
Medical Arsenal of Democracy dedicated to
speeding drug and vaccine development,
OUR PLAN FOR AMERICA
42
? Strengthen our hospitals and ensure they have emergency
plans to address a surge in medical needs under mass
casualty and exposure conditions.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------