Giant Sequoia Cultivation

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[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
17,166
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146
Two of my sprouts are now actual seedlings. These things are peculiar, they don't sprout a stem and root from the seed as I've traditionally seen... they seem to sort of 'spit' the entire stem and root out of the seed, then grow the root down and the stem up, leading to weird issues like them growing around on top of the dirt. Gonna start planting the sprouts further into the dirt to encourage them to not be weird.

Other three sprouts haven't popped up yet, might be dead. Still letting the remaining ~17 seeds from my last stratification (~10d ago) sit in a moist filter to see if I get more sprouts. Got another batch of 20 coming out on Friday.

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lxskllr

No Lifer
Nov 30, 2004
59,402
9,926
126
How ya making out with these? About time to put them in the ground if you intend to before winter.
 

[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
17,166
16,310
146
How ya making out with these? About time to put them in the ground if you intend to before winter.
Lost my first four to root rot, and was having exceedingly low germination rates, I assume due to fungus.. Changing how I'm germinating them. Unfortunate side is, any alternations require a 5-week lead time.

Currently fridging them sans moisture, then going to soak when they come out as part of stratification, then into normie potting soil. Was getting a lot of fungal growth with the potting soil/topsoil mix, even with what I thought was moderate watering and fungicide.

First new batch coming out tomorrow.

Oh, and I'll be keeping any solid growths potted for probably a year or two depending on how big they get/how fast, so I can keep them out of the wind and reduce the risk of my overzealous lawn guy from running over them.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
40,433
9,941
136
That was how I got into dawn redwoods. Was reading about a giant sequoia in England, and thought it would be cool to grow one myself. Never considered they'd grow outside PNW. Reading around, it sounded like dawn redwoods grow a good bit faster, and are still giants, so I'll hopefully get to see them look impressive before I die.
2000 years, by then should be pretty impressive.
 
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[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
17,166
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Big 'ol bumpity bump. Learned a lot after trying various techniques since I started this thread (Jesus, july?), which I'll detail here as a now-lowbie botanist.

1) Those stupid egg cartons are too small. Gotta go bigger, using small (~1 pint) plastic planter cups now which conveniently fit 3 to a egg carton lid.
2) Anti-fungals are critical. Using anti-fungal spray has almost completely halted my loss of sprouts due to them damping off. I spray a few sprits on them every 4-5 days.
3) Second critical step was dirt. Potting soil doesn't cut it, it needs something more dense that holds water better. Switched to a blend of ~20% mushroom compost, ~20% (clean) sand, ~55% potting soil, and 1-5% wood ash. Theory on the ash being that their natural environment has periodic fires, so some carbon ash should exist within the soil naturally.
4) Lots of water. See above why anti-fungals are critical. Lots of my seeds failed to progress past initial ~1mm sprout due to lack of water. I also spritz them with water once a day/every other day, as their natural environment is very foggy.
5) Lots of light. I think the sun-through-the-window wasn't cutting it, got a UV lamp mounted on my goofy bookshelf plant stand now.
6) 6 weeks in the cold. Not 5, not 4, not 4-6, 6 weeks. I get double the sprouts letting them go to 6 weeks over 5.
7) Switched from goofy paper towels and coffee filters to pearlite, and improved my handling of the seeds to reduce the introduction of bacteria and fungal agents into the fridge-stratifying and germinating seeds. This has been one of the biggest improvements to my sprout rate, those paper products are just gross.
8) Sprout goes DOWN when putting in a pot, if it gets confused and grows up, it'll die.
9) About 30% of my current seeds are sprouting (probably get up to the cited 40% with further improved handling techniques... maybe surgical gloves?). About a quarter of those actually sprout with their seed still attached, rather than sloughing it off in the dirt. I've improved this somewhat by buring them a little deeper and padding down the dirt above them a little better, but some still come up with it. I've learned that if I let them sit there for longer than I feel they should, the cotyledons (first tiny leaves) actually split correctly, at which point all I have to do is cut the seed cap in half and usually it'll pull off after that. So basically, let them sit and see what happens!
10) Don't be upset if sprouts die. That's why you get 10 thousand seeds. Just keep planting.
11) Don't be afraid to do one sprout per pot. I was getting a lot more die-offs early on so I put several in a single pot, and damn near every one sprouted resulting in me having to manually separate tiny amounts of dirt with a sprout out of a single pot.

I now do pearlite with a little water in a baggie, let the water sit for a minute to kinda soak into the bag, then drain of most of the excess (leave a little in so there's still moisture as the seeds absorb it). Seeds need to not be sitting in water while stratifying or germinating or they'll drown, but they do need to be touching wet stuff to absorb properly. Germination happens anywhere from a day to a month after pulling from the fridge. Any seeds remaining after a month/month and a half get dumped outside in a corner of my garden and covered lightly in the event I get a random late sprout.

Pics of current sprouts, a few with actual leaves beyond the cotyledons. The largest two are about a month old. ~1mm sprout to actually poking up takes about a week, another week to stabilize the cotyledons, and another week or two to actually start sprouting those little leaves.
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sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
99,350
17,547
126
Maybe laws should just require Americans to plant large trees instead of maintaining a meaningless lawn to save the earth.


What about city dwellers? That tree wrecks your neighbour's basement is the government gonna cover you?
 

[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
17,166
16,310
146
What about city dwellers? That tree wrecks your neighbour's basement is the government gonna cover you?
It's not terrifically hard to plan plantings to avoid such an issue. Virtually all trees you buy include the canopy diameter, and virtually all trees (I think?) restrict their root reach to the canopy diameter. Just don't be idiotic with where you plant oak trees.
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
72,333
32,876
136
What about city dwellers? That tree wrecks your neighbour's basement is the government gonna cover you?
If a tree wrecks your neighbor's basement, clearly you planted the seeds up side down.
 

[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
17,166
16,310
146
Summer update time.

Spring was eventful. Had a good thing going with 15 or so seedlings (~1"ish), when I started seeing little gnats everywhere. Disregarded them at first, but then I started losing some of the younger seedlings. Saw little silvery wormy things everywhere in the soil, at which point I discovered what fungus gnats were. Did some reading and discovered that mosquito pellets (Bacillus thuringiensis bacterium) actually kills them too. Stupendous I thought, I actually have some of those for treating our garden pond. I sprinkled a half dozen pellets on the surface of each pot, thinking as I water it'll basically dissolve them and leach into the soil.

Well, it did, little did I know those pellets are like half sugar or something. Absolutely exploded with fungal growth, over the course of about two days I lost all but four or so of the oldest seedlings to damping off. It did however kill the fungus gnat larvae quite well.

I've since revised my methods, now when I put a pot together, I embed a single pellet deep inside to provide growth for the bacteria without providing a fungal hotbed. I've not had any fungus gnat outbreaks since then, and no severe fungus/mold issues either.

I also tried a few different methods for better fungus treatment, including the 'water from below' method (pouring some water in the drain pan and have that absorbed into the pot rather than watering from above) and using a Bacillus amyloliquefaciens based anti-fungal, which apparently is super-effective but apparently only under certain circumstances, as it binds bacteria to the roots and protects them from fungus rather than wiping out everything. Didn't work well in my case, lost a ton to more damping off trying to make that work. Went back to the smelly sulfur stuff and it's worked great as it did before.

Finally, I tried putting the remaining four mentioned above outside to get them some real sun rather than my UV lights. Friggin groundhog ate one of them, and lost two more due to I assume them needing to be hardened off rather than thrown in the deep end, so to speak.

At this point, I've got one further along than any others (couple months), and 4-6 in varying states of early growth, past the cotyledon stage. Plenty more still coming from the seeds though, so I'm confident within another few weeks I'll have 20 of them sprouting again.
 
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[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
17,166
16,310
146
Oh, also, I've implemented a labeling scheme for my seedlings now, as at my peak I was losing track of how long seeds had been in pots (and thus had died rather than just needing more time to sprout). Now I know if they haven't come up in a week or two they're probably croaked.
Pics-
Furthest along:
1594411839628.png
Others:
1594411867454.png'
Front and back on the left are likely dead (one to outside beatdown, one to fungus I think), but giving them the opportunity to re-sprout if they see fit.
 

lxskllr

No Lifer
Nov 30, 2004
59,402
9,926
126
Thanks for the update! I was thinking about your trees yesterday or the day before, and was gonna ask, but it slipped my mind.
 

sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
99,350
17,547
126
I'll only be a 163 by then. If I give up smoking, whoring, drinking, drugs, lousy diet, skydiving, and get some exorcise, I could make it.

Edit: Was going to fix the typo, but realized it works either way.


Futurama head in a jar. No thanks.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
40,433
9,941
136
sequoia-page.jpg


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mikeford

Diamond Member
Jan 27, 2001
5,671
160
106
My niece planted a bunch, a group of 5 or something like that, and even fairly near the coast of SoCal she had to put in a misting system to create fake heavy fog they need.
 

BurnItDwn

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
26,322
1,836
126
damn those sequoias Muse ... every time I see a pic of one of those, the proportions completely break my perception of scale.
 

Muse

Lifer
Jul 11, 2001
40,433
9,941
136
damn those sequoias Muse ... every time I see a pic of one of those, the proportions completely break my perception of scale.
That can be good for you. You may start hallucinating, no telling what magnificent insights will be induced. Just don't get behind the wheel or sign any documents or make any critical life decisions.

I went to Muir woods around 2-3 years ago. I guess those weren't sequoias. Magnificent redwood grove. I have seen sequoias in person but it's been a long time. I should go. I'm almost done watching Ken Burns' The National Parks documentary series. I've bought a lot of series on disk, most of which I've barely scratched the surface but the Ken Burns stuff always gets watched.
 
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