GF100 Previews from Digital Experience

[Dribble]

It was around very early 2001, where I did see differences in ATI's drivers and taking things very serious. They were adding optimizations for Quake 3 engined games, ...

You know that all games have "optimizations" now - ati worked out by having tweaks for all the individual games in their drivers they could add about 10 or 20% more performance. Unfortunately having drivers that are slightly different for every game means more bugs. Nvidia followed ati's lead and now do exactly the same thing. Both sets of drivers reliability suffered because of it.

 

[SirPauly]

You know that all games have "optimizations" now - ati worked out by having tweaks for all the individual games in their drivers they could add about 10 or 20% more performance. Unfortunately having drivers that are slightly different for every game means more bugs. Nvidia followed ati's lead and now do exactly the same thing. Both sets of drivers reliability suffered because of it.

Damned if you do and damned if you don't -- with some mind-sets no matter what one does -- some complain.

 

[SlowSpyder]

Why yes you have me figured out. I have a huge Nvidia bias which is why I run a 4850.
Your avatar says it all. There is nothing to read there.

I am sure there are all sorts of cherry picked scenarios one can come up with to justify their conspiracy theory. There are just as many TWIMTP programs that run faster on ATI hardware with nvidia optimized code. Doom 3 was an opengl game. Blame ATIs' piss poor opengl drivers at the time.

Nothing is stopping ATI from writing their own routines that work best for their hardware. Go ahead and do it. I get sick of the small guy victim mentality of AMD\ATI. They are a multi-billion dollar company. Ball up and get it done.

While I agree that I don't get the 'poor small AMD' mentality, I don't agree that either AMD or Nvidia should have to write code to get games to have features on their hardware. If we start getting exclusive games/features (games/features that only run on Nvidia or AMD) I think that'd really hurt PC gaming. AMD has helped developers with DX11 code, that code will run on Nvidia cards. It's really a shame that people defend Nvidia for locking out a pretty standard feature on AMD hardware.

 

[SirPauly]

I do. Think it is utterly fantastic to see IHV's evangelize their strengths and invest to help and promote PC features and experiences.

 

[T2k]

I do. Think it is utterly fantastic to see IHV's evangelize their strengths and invest to help and promote PC features and experiences as long as they do not force exclusivity.

Fixed it for ya..

 

[SirPauly]

Fixed it for ya..

Can't have it both ways in my mind and trying to force idealism when it doesn't exist, imho.

 

[T2k]

Can't have it both ways in my mind and trying to force idealism when it doesn't exist, imho.

Of course you can - the way AMD doing it and NV did it until Batman.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Well the line has been drawn in the sand . Those who want to see PC gaming grow . Open Vs Exclusivetivity by those who back 1 companies tech who would divide the gaming industry . Common sense Vs. Ignorance(NV)

 

[SirPauly]

Well the line has been drawn in the sand . Those who want to see PC gaming grow . Open Vs Exclusivetivity by those who back 1 companies tech who would divide the gaming industry . Common sense Vs. Ignorance(NV)

I don't think it is as simple or idealist as that, hehe!

 

[Voo]

I don't think it is as simple or idealist as that, hehe!

Ok, we're eagerly waiting why not. I think we all agree that this praxis would harm PC gaming as a whole moer than anything else and - as far as we know - neither Nvidia nor Ati did it before.

So where's your problem? As long as Nvidia gets lots of bad press for doing something like that, they probably won't do it again in the near future..

 

[SirPauly]

Ok, we're eagerly waiting why not. I think we all agree that this praxis would harm PC gaming as a whole moer than anything else and - as far as we know - neither Nvidia nor Ati did it before.

So where's your problem? As long as Nvidia gets lots of bad press for doing something like that, they probably won't do it again in the near future..

I don't. I think investing into abilities for the PC only bring more awareness to the PC as a whole. In an ideal way Open standards are key but competition is what drives innovation and the consumer shouldn't be forced to wait for anyone.

If open standards are offered for Physics and Stereo3d -- utterly fantastic but why should the consumer have to wait for open standards to have them?

 

[Nemesis 1]

They don't Intel has 3D and were seeing it in movies right now . Most of us don't have 120 monitors. So pushing a closed standard At the same time your attacking Intel as a Monopoly company When you yourself are a Discret Graphics monopoly leaves many unanswered questions. A cpu is a Cpu be it X86 or other . Same as Discret VS IGP are seperate but the same .

The pure Bias I see is outragious. Now because of all the cring Were seeing Cpu pricies rising instead of falling as they should be . AMD is even raising pricies . Way to go idiots.

 

[SirPauly]

They don't Intel has 3D and were seeing it in movies right now . Most of us don't have 120 monitors. So pushing a closed standard At the same time your attacking Intel as a Monopoly company When you yourself are a Discret Graphics monopoly leaves many unanswered questions. A cpu is a Cpu be it X86 or other . Same as Discret VS IGP are seperate but the same .

The pure Bias I see is outragious. Now because of all the cring Were seeing Cpu pricies rising instead of falling as they should be . AMD is even raising pricies . Way to go idiots.

There are always going to be unanswered questions, levels of bias, personal attacks, idealism, self righteousness, arm chair views with their judgments and executions, grades of fail and epic fail, based on how they perceive things in forums and all good, because through this chaos there is passion and sometimes some interesting data to learn, imho.

 

[Nemesis 1]

There are always going to be unanswered questions, levels of bias, personal attacks, idealism, self righteousness, arm chair views with their judgments and executions, grades of fail and epic fail, based on how they perceive things in forums and all good, because through this chaos there is passion and sometimes some interesting data to learn, imho.

The thing is you know not who is arm chair and who isn't . Hindsite also seperates the marketers from the people who actually do research and have a solid base for their opinions . I don't trust car salesmen period.

 

[akugami]

Nothing is stopping ATI from writing their own routines that work best for their hardware. Go ahead and do it. I get sick of the small guy victim mentality of AMD\ATI. They are a multi-billion dollar company. Ball up and get it done.

Well, conspiracy theorists would point to nVidia preventing (or trying to prevent) anyone from writing code that works better on AMD hardware. See Assassin's Creed and the case of the disappearing DX10.1. I'm not saying that we can say conclusively that nVidia pressured Ubisoft into removing DX10.1 but that case coupled with the Batman case would indeed point to nVidia.

 

[SirPauly]

The thing is you know not who is arm chair and who isn't . Hindsite also seperates the marketers from the people who actually do research and have a solid base for their opinions . I don't trust car salesmen period.

Is that what you offer? Research? All I see is idealism and conjecture.

 

[Genx87]

Well, conspiracy theorists would point to nVidia preventing (or trying to prevent) anyone from writing code that works better on AMD hardware. See Assassin's Creed and the case of the disappearing DX10.1. I'm not saying that we can say conclusively that nVidia pressured Ubisoft into removing DX10.1 but that case coupled with the Batman case would indeed point to nVidia.

2 out of thousands of titles. Convincing.................

 

[Voo]

I don't. I think investing into abilities for the PC only bring more awareness to the PC as a whole. In an ideal way Open standards are key but competition is what drives innovation and the consumer shouldn't be forced to wait for anyone.

If open standards are offered for Physics and Stereo3d -- utterly fantastic but why should the consumer have to wait for open standards to have them?

I think we've misunderstood each other. I'm not against Physix or Stereo3D even if it is a closed standard - hopefully a new open standard emerges so that everyone gets the advantages of these new things, but for the time being I'm perfectly fine with nvidia pushing those stuff.

The only problem I have is if Nvidia (or anyone else) deliberatly locks out some features that work very well with their competition - the MSAA implementation was nothing new or special that would only work on Nvidia cards.. as a matter of fact both companies give the same advice for implementing AA.

I think nobody here wants to see games that work only well with a Nvidia GPU, a gigabyte MB and a Intel CPU (or any other combination) - if Ati started to lock out DirectX11 features for Nvidia cards I would be angry as well.

 

[blanketyblank]

2 out of thousands of titles. Convincing.................

If nvidia had the clout to do thousands of thousands of titles then we wouldn't be having any conversation about this. However 2 newer titles can serve as a warning of things that may come.

 

[SirPauly]

I think we've misunderstood each other. I'm not against Physix or Stereo3D even if it is a closed standard - hopefully a new open standard emerges so that everyone gets the advantages of these new things, but for the time being I'm perfectly fine with nvidia pushing those stuff.

The only problem I have is if Nvidia (or anyone else) deliberatly locks out some features that work very well with their competition - the MSAA implementation was nothing new or special that would only work on Nvidia cards.. as a matter of fact both companies give the same advice for implementing AA.

I think nobody here wants to see games that work only well with a Nvidia GPU, a gigabyte MB and a Intel CPU (or any other combination) - if Ati started to lock out DirectX11 features for Nvidia cards I would be angry as well.

Personally wasn't pleased with those two as well and like to see nVidia rethink this as an investment of good will for the community. Or, if they don't rethink this offer more details on the cost benefits. This would be idealism to me but didn't appreciate any of those decisions from a gamer point-of-view. Do understand their points but do feel leverage played a heavy hand and with this some consumers may suffer, sadly.