Getting tired of Skyrim already. Characters are wooden, quest fatigue.

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PrincessFrosty

Platinum Member
Feb 13, 2008
2,300
68
91
www.frostyhacks.blogspot.com
I agree with OP in general. It feels more like a singleplayer version of the grind that the MMOs have, but slightly more sophistocated.

It started off feeling epic and more impressive but you soon come to realise the very structured nature of the game. Each town has a Jarl, that Jarl has 1 or 2 main quests, then offers you a position as thane, then you have to please 3 or 5 people in the town, etc etc

The Jarls even have the same script, what really irritates me is that they took the time and effort to pull together all these different voice actors but then they didn't bother to actually write unique lines for some of the core game dialogue, literally line for line the Jarls will say the same thing.

It reminds me of Assassins creed and FarCry2, they're large open worlds and cities but they struggle to fill that size with unique content, so they pick a mission "structure" and then repeat that over and over, it can feel a bit grindy.

Even if the quests themselves are compelling, and you can get past the wooden NPCs, I still can't help escape the feeling that I'm following a line of quests that were designed on a whiteboard in a boardroom by the developers, it's too symetrical, too even, too neat, once you've learnt the rules for the structure it ultimately becomes predictable.

Still I love the game despite it, there would no other way to achieve 100 odd hours of gameplay without this repeating nature of game design, I think the trick is to not burn yourself out on side quests and try and finish the main story while the game remains enjoyable, i made that mistake with Oblivion and after 55 hours had never completed it, I'm 53 hours in to Skyrim and I'm still compelled to play so hopefully this time around I'll finish it before that feeling of grind sets in.
 

Todd33

Diamond Member
Oct 16, 2003
7,842
2
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The Jarls even have the same script, what really irritates me is that they took the time and effort to pull together all these different voice actors but then they didn't bother to actually write unique lines for some of the core game dialogue, literally line for line the Jarls will say the same thing.

I don't think they did record so much voice acting. I think they used a technology that allows them to change the sound of the voice. This is why you hear both men and women saying the same line about taking an arrow in the knee. They start with one recording and produce dozens of unique sounding versions of it. This is how they could help squeeze the game on 3.6GB. No in game movies and minimized recorded voice.
 

mindcycle

Golden Member
Jan 9, 2008
1,901
0
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My suggestion is to reinstall Oblivion and load up Nehrim. I had more fun playing through that mod then I did with vanilla Oblivion. I haven't played Skyrim yet, but if it's at all similar to standard Oblivion you should have much more fun playing through Nehrim.

http://nehrim.de/startEV.html
 

PrincessFrosty

Platinum Member
Feb 13, 2008
2,300
68
91
www.frostyhacks.blogspot.com
I don't think they did record so much voice acting. I think they used a technology that allows them to change the sound of the voice. This is why you hear both men and women saying the same line about taking an arrow in the knee. They start with one recording and produce dozens of unique sounding versions of it. This is how they could help squeeze the game on 3.6GB. No in game movies and minimized recorded voice.

Did you read this somewhere or is it just a guess? I doesn't sound digitally altered to me, not to the point where the original is the same at least. It appears to me the actors were just all reading the same script, I'd be interested in knowing what they did exactly, and why they did it, either way it seems like a daft idea.
 

CVSiN

Diamond Member
Jul 19, 2004
9,289
1
0
I am EXACTLY like you OP! Bioware RPGs i play through at least twice, and i can barely finish Bethesdas games. I too am getting tired of Skyrim, and i'm only level 26.

You should look into Star Wars: The Old Republic. That is KOTOR and Mass Effect turned into an MMO. It is fantastic!

I agree with you 500% after playing TOR as an RPG I cant even stand to boot up Skyrim it seems like a 8 bit game to me vs a modern RPG.

Skyrim is dead to me already 8 hours played didnt even hardly touch the story line.. and cannot get into it like I did Obiviion back then.. and much worse than any of the BW RPGs.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,912
31,439
146
I agree with you 500% after playing TOR as an RPG I cant even stand to boot up Skyrim it seems like a 8 bit game to me vs a modern RPG.

Skyrim is dead to me already 8 hours played didnt even hardly touch the story line.. and cannot get into it like I did Obiviion back then.. and much worse than any of the BW RPGs.

can I have your copy?

:)
 

Grooveriding

Diamond Member
Dec 25, 2008
9,147
1,330
126
I like the game a lot, but get where the OP is coming from.

I've always played TES games very slowly. As in I play for 1 or 2 hours, 2 or 3 times a week. Otherwise it burns me out. I find I enjoy the games that way.

The only exception for me in a game of the same style was Fallout:NV which I blew through fast, really enjoyed that one.
 

Alienwho

Diamond Member
Apr 22, 2001
6,766
0
76
I put 50 hours into skyrim. Beat the main quest, thieves guild, dark brotherhood, a good portion of the companions, a good portion of college of mages. It was fun. I had an insatiable appetite to play skyrim until I completed the main quest, which was the last thing I have done. I played a stealth archer and it was fun. Since then I have no desire to play at all and have moved on to my new addiction, Battlefield 3, thanks to $30 black friday deal.
 

zerocool84

Lifer
Nov 11, 2004
36,041
472
126
You guys keep saying that you need to ignore the crappy voice acting and crappy NPC's but you can't. If something is a part of a game and it sucks, it brings down the game. Mass Effect's inevtory sucked which hurts the game.
 

HeXen

Diamond Member
Dec 13, 2009
7,838
39
91
You're doing it wrong. I've been stealing stuff ever since I joined the Thieves' Guild and never got caught unless I did something silly.

As long as you don't get a 'bounty' message at the top left corner of your screen, you should be fine.

no bounty message, no one sees me. i'm fine until i leave town and come back or go to another town, then everyone...even in other towns wants to kill me.
its a bug of some sort, maybe not everyone gets it, but i can't even kill an NPC alone out in the middle of nowhere without a guard or someone else knowing about it.
 

StrangerGuy

Diamond Member
May 9, 2004
8,443
124
106
I don't think they did record so much voice acting. I think they used a technology that allows them to change the sound of the voice. This is why you hear both men and women saying the same line about taking an arrow in the knee. They start with one recording and produce dozens of unique sounding versions of it. This is how they could help squeeze the game on 3.6GB. No in game movies and minimized recorded voice.

Morrowind's voice system is just so much better...You only hear NPC voices when you approach them just to get the feel of it and the rest of the dialogue is only text but it was so much better written and varied to start with that it actually adds to the game than detract from it. Oblivion had terrible VA work and writing, while Skyrim had the former mostly solved it still doesn't fix the fact no matter how talented your VA is its still going to suck if the writing underneath is as interesting as watching paint dry. Besides all the effort of making the game fully VA could have been diverted to make the quests or game mechanics better, more fun and interesting etc.
 
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QueBert

Lifer
Jan 6, 2002
23,047
1,215
126
no bounty message, no one sees me. i'm fine until i leave town and come back or go to another town, then everyone...even in other towns wants to kill me.
its a bug of some sort, maybe not everyone gets it, but i can't even kill an NPC alone out in the middle of nowhere without a guard or someone else knowing about it.

Sounds like they didn't fix this from Oblivion, I understand it was a huge open world game, but with sh*t like this I don't understand how anyone enjoyed it. The guards had a 6th sense, you could kill a dude in a basement with nobody around, and when you went back up stairs and left the house they already knew you had killed him. Same thing with stealing tiny items.

Sounds like Skyrim is more of the same, I won't be buying it even when Steam has it for 90% off Xmas 2012.
 

Mo0o

Lifer
Jul 31, 2001
24,227
3
76
Just started playing Oblivion to see what the fuss is about. Does anyone else hate the fact that computer enemies level up as you level up? One of the fun things about older RPGs was that you could get really powerful and mow down weaker enemies. but with this system, if you dont level up "efficiently" you can actually end up weaker than the enemies
 

Sulaco

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2003
3,825
46
91
You guys keep saying that you need to ignore the crappy voice acting and crappy NPC's but you can't. If something is a part of a game and it sucks, it brings down the game. Mass Effect's inevtory sucked which hurts the game.

Ok...and what happened with Mass Effect? It was still a superlative game. Almost everyone thoroughly enjoyed it.

No one is saying to "ignore it" (the problems), they're saying there is just so much else enjoyable it's silly to ignore everything special and fun because of a few flaws. That's like refusing to play and enjoy any FPS that's not Half-Life 2 quality. It's silly.

With improved dialogue and missions variety (it's not BAD, just not great), it would be nearly the perfect game, at least RPG. With those things, it's flawed, but it's still a thoroughly engrossing game all the way around.

QueBert said:
]Sounds like they didn't fix this from Oblivion, I understand it was a huge open world game, but with sh*t like this I don't understand how anyone enjoyed it. The guards had a 6th sense, you could kill a dude in a basement with nobody around, and when you went back up stairs and left the house they already knew you had killed him. Same thing with stealing tiny items.

Sounds like Skyrim is more of the same, I won't be buying it even when Steam has it for 90% off Xmas 2012.

This is what makes internet forums something of a double-edged sword.

As has already been stated, this just isn't the case. I don't know whether that user's game is bugged, but the fundamental design seems to be sound for myself and the majority of other users. That aspect works fine...I stay crouched, stay out of sight, and have no problems whatsoever. This whole thing is so far overblown. Same with Oblivion, post patch. I murdered countless people in the Dark Brotherhood, all while sneaking, and never once had a bounty of my head or was confronted by any guards. I don't know what people were doing, by it really wasn't that challenging.
 

PrayForDeath

Diamond Member
Apr 12, 2004
3,478
1
76
Sounds like they didn't fix this from Oblivion, I understand it was a huge open world game, but with sh*t like this I don't understand how anyone enjoyed it. The guards had a 6th sense, you could kill a dude in a basement with nobody around, and when you went back up stairs and left the house they already knew you had killed him. Same thing with stealing tiny items.

Sounds like Skyrim is more of the same, I won't be buying it even when Steam has it for 90% off Xmas 2012.

Yeah except, System Mechanic is the only user I know of having this issue with Skyrim.

One of the first things I did in Skyrim was join the Thieves' Guild, and I've been committing crimes left and right for the past 40 hours of gameplay without seeing any bug with guard detection. If you're careful, you won't get caught. Simple as that.
 

rchiu

Diamond Member
Jun 8, 2002
3,846
0
0
Stick with rail shooters, Bioware RPG's and JRPG's then.

or... http://triptronix.net/ishbadiddle/images/outsidecj0.jpg ;)

Yeah seriously, after 5 installments and a few expansions, people still don't get Elder Scrolls series is sandbox type of RPG and expect something else?

Elder Scrolls games has never been about the min/maxing DPS, emotionally charged story lines, engaging characters, it's always the world, the lore, the exploration. Why does people buy some genre they are not interested in and complain about it is beyond comprehension.
 

mindcycle

Golden Member
Jan 9, 2008
1,901
0
76
Just started playing Oblivion to see what the fuss is about. Does anyone else hate the fact that computer enemies level up as you level up? One of the fun things about older RPGs was that you could get really powerful and mow down weaker enemies. but with this system, if you dont level up "efficiently" you can actually end up weaker than the enemies

This was one of the biggest complaints about Oblivion. I would suggest grabbing #2 or #5 from the following article asap.

http://www.pcgamer.com/2010/07/16/ten-essential-oblivion-mods/
 

Malladine

Diamond Member
Mar 31, 2003
4,618
0
71
I think the crux of the problem *IS* that the characters and NPCs are so forgettable. Why do you even do the quests? For the character in question that is requesting it. And the main quest you do because you're trying to save Skyrim itself (meaning its inhabitants).

But spending all this effort to do things for NPCs that are at best thinly disguised robots with no personality, aspirations, and real backstory whatsoever sucks.

I feel no such thing with these epic Bethesda games. Sure, there's a somewhat interesting main quest, but everything else is so downright boring because there's no real connection with any of the characters, and the characters are at the center of any quest, really. They're the reason you're even doing the quest. Without that, it's just another "let's see what other cool spells and items and peaks I can get" game.

You know i was going to agree and say I couldn't recall any characters i feel anything about in Skyrim, but then I remembered journals and diaries. Frostflow Lighthouse is a great example of how reading a journal or several journals helps bring characters alive, even after they die. To me it's that kind of thing Bethesda uses to help a player (who wants to read) feel more connected to the world.
 
Sep 12, 2004
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I find the game kind of gives me a split personality feeling. I have so many quests open that I can hardly wait to play and finish them up. But when I play one minor miscellaneous quest and spend hours wandering around trying to find a way to get through the mountains to reach the target or spend hours wandering through a dungeon for a piddling reward, I think, "What a waste of time". I dont mind the number of quests so much as the endless hours of real time spent walking through the mountains trying to find a pass to reach some unexplored goal, and then doing it over and over again for other minor quests. I am trying very, very hard not to use the move to quest target cheat.

But I still find the game fun and addicting in a sort of interesting but frustrating way.
Why all the walking? Use the map and fast travel somewhere near the location where you want to be. After you've been to a place once you can open the map and double-click on a location marker to fast travel back there. After a while it's pretty much a short jaunt to anywhere.
 

TallBill

Lifer
Apr 29, 2001
46,017
62
91
I was getting a little tired of skyrim but luckily did not patch to 1.2 and am closing in on 100 hours of play. I still have a bunch of stuff that I want to accomplish. Then there is a bunch of stuff that I feel that I should accomplish but might not.

Plus I found out that the NPC that I had a crush on was marriage material. Ysolda is mah wifey.
 
Aug 11, 2008
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Why all the walking? Use the map and fast travel somewhere near the location where you want to be. After you've been to a place once you can open the map and double-click on a location marker to fast travel back there. After a while it's pretty much a short jaunt to anywhere.

Because you cannot fast travel to a location that you have not visited previously. I do know how to fast travel. Basically I am not that good at pathfinding, and get really irritated when trying to find a pass through the mountains to find a location that I have not visited before. It just seems a sort of artificial way to extend gameplay, which is not really necessary considering that I seem to be getting more and more unfinished quests the more I play. I think I am going to go back to the main quest before I burn myself out on miscellaneous quests.

It is not quite so bad now, because sprint is suddenly working when it did not before, so I can travel faster. I just wish my follower could keep up and didnt keep getting stuck on terrain or totally disappearing.