Getting tired of my CAI

[Zap]

At least, I think this is the cause of my problems.

Mazdaspeed 6 with a Mazdaspeed CAI. It sits just in front of the front left wheel well, with some vents in the wheel well and otherwise open to the elements.

I seem to have problems every time it rains, which it did yesterday. Problems are that the CEL comes on and engine doesn't run too well. In fact, yesterday was the worst it ever got. In the evening the car wouldn't even run. Engine turns over, revs to maybe 500RPM and then dies. Let it dry out overnight and it starts this morning, but a bit of backfiring and sluggish revs, and CEL still on.

On a more positive note, a 1920 Ford Model T parked next to me (yes in the rain, obviously not a garage queen). Got some pics, but haven't seen my card reader in a month.

 

[MasterAndCommander]

Add a bypass valve to your intake?

 

[Ns1]

On a more positive note, a 1920 Ford Model T parked next to me (yes in the rain, obviously not a garage queen).

there is something wrong with this.

 

[Arkaign]

Water + intake = bad. I usually only recommend CAI, even SRI variants, for vehicles in very dry climates, or ideally something that can quickly be switched out to and from stock configuration quickly and easily on the occassional track day/drag day, whatever.

This is assuming that it's one of the vehicles which can have real dyno/track proven gains from a CAI, which is rare enough as it is.

 

[JCH13]

Mazdaspeed released a splash shield for the CAI that you might be able to get for free on a recall. My MSCAI has a splash shield and I've never had an issue.

As a short-term solution you can remove the longer section and turn your CAI into an SRI (short ram intake) style and avoid water all together. You could also get a hydroshield, which many claim works wonder for repelling water away from the filter element.

Mazdaspeed3 and 6 share the same engine and many of the same parts, including the MSCAI if memory serves.

Note that water isn't being ingested into your engine, either some very fine water droplets are screwing up your MAF or they're choking the dry filter element. If you stopped and idled in significant standing water (1-2ft) you MIGHT ingest some water, which would be very bad.

 

[Chrono]

Dude... pointless. Go back to stock. I bet you probably don't even know how to drive your FWD car that well. Do you even race? I did a bunch of modifications to my car.. but in the end I didn't use any of it except for driving on the freeways and streets...

 

[Arkaign]

Speed6 is AWD.

Many boosted setups, particularly setups like the 2.3T do benefit a decent amount by a better intake.

 

[Chrono]

FWD bias though.

 

[JCH13]

Dude... pointless. Go back to stock. I bet you probably don't even know how to drive your FWD car that well. Do you even race? I did a bunch of modifications to my car.. but in the end I didn't use any of it except for driving on the freeways and streets...

Mazdaspeed CAI shows a 1-2mpg bump for most people, and auto-rags measured a gain of around 25whp. It's a solid mod with real-world benefits, does not violate the warranty, and the engine sounds a lot more interested with the sounds the CAI lets out (turbo spool, BPV opening, etc).

 

[Arkaign]

FWD bias though.

True, but that doesn't come much into play unless you've modded for major power. The Mazda6 ATS puts up to 50% of drive power to the rear as needed, which is plenty unless you're pushing 500+hp.

 

[JulesMaximus]

FWD bias though.

ZOMG!!! Wrong wheel drive! Teh horror! D:

 

[Chrono]

Zgads!!!

 

[Raizinman]

Your cars engine can only accept so much air. Your stock air cleaner can pass all the air your engine needs. Having an air filter with 10 times more capacity will not make your car go any faster. Your engine will only accept the amount of air needed regulated by the throttle. Even at full throttle your stock air filter can pass more than enough air. Get rid of these expensive aftermarket junk intakes that do nothing except set CEL or make more engine noise (giving the impression of more power). In fact, most stock air filter boxes have silencers built into them to keep engine noise down. I compare adding a CAI to putting playing cards in your bicycles spokes.

 

[disappoint]

Have you tried checking and if necessary cleaning the MAF sensor? Or maybe it's something else entirely that is being affected by the high humidity when it's raining.

It might help to know what code the computer threw and it's not expensive nor time consuming to find out.

 

[Arkaign]

Your cars engine can only accept so much air. Your stock air cleaner can pass all the air your engine needs. Having an air filter with 10 times more capacity will not make your car go any faster. Your engine will only accept the amount of air needed regulated by the throttle. Even at full throttle your stock air filter can pass more than enough air. Get rid of these expensive aftermarket junk intakes that do nothing except set CEL or make more engine noise (giving the impression of more power). In fact, most stock air filter boxes have silencers built into them to keep engine noise down. I compare adding a CAI to putting playing cards in your bicycles spokes.

This is true for many, but not all situations. Many stock intakes are quite restrictive (NVH concerns, extra baffles for trapping water, etc), and performance intakes can make a difference. This is far from common though, but the speed3/speed6 actually do make gains you can see both in the dyno and in the 1/4. It's not like joe ricer sticking a CAI on his D16 automatic civic and expecting zomg nitrous power

 

[JCH13]

Your cars engine can only accept so much air. Your stock air cleaner can pass all the air your engine needs. Having an air filter with 10 times more capacity will not make your car go any faster. Your engine will only accept the amount of air needed regulated by the throttle. Even at full throttle your stock air filter can pass more than enough air. Get rid of these expensive aftermarket junk intakes that do nothing except set CEL or make more engine noise (giving the impression of more power). In fact, most stock air filter boxes have silencers built into them to keep engine noise down. I compare adding a CAI to putting playing cards in your bicycles spokes.

http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f2526f1

http://www.roadandtrack.com/tests/l...zda-mazdaspeed3/2007_mazda_mazdaspeed3_page_2

Proven, significant, power gains from a Mazdaspeed CAI on the Mazdaspeed3/6. Putting a K&N on your SOHC Civic probably won't help, but putting a well-engineered and manufacturer-approved cold air intake on a MazdaSpeed3/6 nets a nice little gain in HP and TQ.

 

[Raizinman]

Sorry, but no matter how you plumb the air into your engine, it can only accept a certain amount. No CAI or K&N filter is a supercharger or turbocharger. In comparing a stock air cleaner assembly (with a clean air filter) to a CAI, why would a CAI flow more air? It wouldn’t. They both flow about 3 or 4 times more than your engine even needs. Actually using this same logic, removing the air filter assembly completely (no restrictions at all now) should give you even more horsepower. It doesn’t.

On the other hand, if I had listened to all the BS about CAI and K&N filters and spent upward of 3 or 4 hundred dollars, I would also claim that I’m not a fool and that I can feel the difference in the car. What you are actually feeling is; hearing the engine noise.

In the manufactures race of horsepower numbers, do you really think that if adding a CAI or K&N to the engine would generate an addition 20 HP they would not do this? Not ONE manufacturer does this? Why is that? Manufacturers have much better labs and research than K&N or any CAI manufacturer. They don’t do it because it doesn’t work. It looks good and sounds good, but that is it. No horsepower, none, zero, zilch.

An engine will only use the amount of air that it needs. On a stock engine or even slightly modified engine, the stock air filter will flow more air than you need. If you wanted to test this, you can add a mechanical vacuum gauge between the engine and filter. If you read any vacuum, then the engine is not getting enough air. Otherwise, the engine is getting enough air.

If you have worked a lot on dynos, you will know that even testing the same car two hours later can show a 10 horsepower difference.

 

[Raduque]

What you're missing Raizinman, is that this is NOT a K&N or other "CAI manufacturer" part. It's an OEM-built and designed part, sold as a dealer-installed or available upgrade. It's designed specifically to help the Mazdaspeed cars make more power.

 

[Gerle]

So Mazda parts are oh so different from any other parts?

 

[Ns1]

So Mazda parts are oh so different from any other parts?

Yes, I would say Mugen/Mazdaspeed/TRD parts are different than Greddy/AEM/RSR parts

 

[JCH13]

Sorry, but no matter how you plumb the air into your engine, it can only accept a certain amount. No CAI or K&N filter is a supercharger or turbocharger. In comparing a stock air cleaner assembly (with a clean air filter) to a CAI, why would a CAI flow more air? It wouldn’t. They both flow about 3 or 4 times more than your engine even needs. Actually using this same logic, removing the air filter assembly completely (no restrictions at all now) should give you even more horsepower. It doesn’t.

On the other hand, if I had listened to all the BS about CAI and K&N filters and spent upward of 3 or 4 hundred dollars, I would also claim that I’m not a fool and that I can feel the difference in the car. What you are actually feeling is; hearing the engine noise.

In the manufactures race of horsepower numbers, do you really think that if adding a CAI or K&N to the engine would generate an addition 20 HP they would not do this? Not ONE manufacturer does this? Why is that? Manufacturers have much better labs and research than K&N or any CAI manufacturer. They don’t do it because it doesn’t work. It looks good and sounds good, but that is it. No horsepower, none, zero, zilch.

An engine will only use the amount of air that it needs. On a stock engine or even slightly modified engine, the stock air filter will flow more air than you need. If you wanted to test this, you can add a mechanical vacuum gauge between the engine and filter. If you read any vacuum, then the engine is not getting enough air. Otherwise, the engine is getting enough air.

If you have worked a lot on dynos, you will know that even testing the same car two hours later can show a 10 horsepower difference.

If you don't believe me, go do a little internet search. Many more sources claim the same gain in HP, about 25, at the wheels. It's not a freak instance at one auto-rag test.

You're also getting all tied up in air volume. What you seem oblivious to is air temperature. The cold air intake does just that: it pulls in cold air from beside the radiator in addition to eliminating a few small flow restrictions. The colder air is denser than the warmer air the stock airbox pulls in. Denser air contains more molecules of oxygen, which means more fuel can be added and more power can be generated.

My Dashhawk showed a noticeable drop in intake temps when I installed my MSCAI. I can't recall the exact number off-hand, it was 3 years go.

 

[Zap]

I don't know if the CAI adds real-world measurable power, other than the R&T link above that claims dyno proof.

I do know 3 things.

1) PITA when it rains (also even taking it through automatic car washes).

2) It sounds different. Can hear some intake whoosh that wasn't there before.

3) My gas mileage is pretty high. I've measured as high as 30.06MPG for a full tank of gas on a road trip with cruise control set to 65MPG. EPA is 25MPG highway. Don't have proof that the CAI is helping in this respect but I tell myself that when I fall asleep, and I sleep well enough.

I don't do too much work on my own cars, so it isn't a simple matter of just swapping it back out for the stock air box with an hour of my own time.

No I don't race. I must have missed the memo regarding "racing" as a requirement prior any vehicle performance mods.

Chrono... if you want to argue with and insult people, Off Topic is that way.
<----

Raizinman, IDK why manufacturers don't make vehicles that comes with these stock. You could be right in that it doesn't add much to most vehicles in stock condition. Or, maybe there are regulations in place governing them? Or, maybe they are too much hassle (like I'm finding out) to be worthwhile on vehicles that people expect to work like appliances? Or noise considerations, such as you alluded to with your "silencers in stock airboxes." Isn't that why a lot of vehicles now "pipe" sound into the cabin? Because of EU noise laws?

Everyone else, thanks for the suggestions. I will see if I can find the little ODB II dongle I bought a while back and never used, so that I can read the code.

 

[Arkaign]

AFAIK, the main reason stock intake systems are more restrictive and not similar to CAI :

(1)- NVH. The less restrictive the intake, generally it follows that you hear more noise from it. As a general rule, lower noise is a goal in stock vehicles, even moderately sporty ones.

(2)- Paper filters are more reliable at stopping dirt/etc compared to K&N style filters, even if they're a bit less restrictive in absolute airflow. With a stock intake setup, this is a good thing to have a regular paper filter.

(3)- Baffling to make it very difficult for water to get into the actual fuel injection/intake portion of the motor. This is why stock intakes usually follow a very crazy looking up and down path before it even hits the filterbox. Water in the intake = problems, as it looks like you're experiencing.

(4)- Most of the gains from a CAI, assuming you have a motor which can benefit from the increased flow potential, are at relatively high RPM range, which is irrelevant to most people at best.

You will find crazy people of all stripes.

Some will say that CAI is always a gimmick, never does anything good, etc.

Some will say that CAI is great, always great, these are usually the people who also think that a K&N filter by itself in a stock airbox with stock ECU is capable of some sort of amazing gains.

Both are wrong, obviously. There are pros and cons to the setup, and YMMV, most usually depending on what motor/car you're working with.

 

[Raizinman]

If you don't believe me, go do a little internet search. Many more sources claim the same gain in HP, about 25, at the wheels. It's not a freak instance at one auto-rag test.

You're also getting all tied up in air volume. What you seem oblivious to is air temperature. The cold air intake does just that: it pulls in cold air from beside the radiator in addition to eliminating a few small flow restrictions. The colder air is denser than the warmer air the stock airbox pulls in. Denser air contains more molecules of oxygen, which means more fuel can be added and more power can be generated.

My Dashhawk showed a noticeable drop in intake temps when I installed my MSCAI. I can't recall the exact number off-hand, it was 3 years go.

The wild HP claims are those from K&N and the CAI manufacturers. They are not realistic. The same internet research shows how inflated these claims are.

As for the cold air theory, keep in mind that your MAF (Mass Air Flow) sensor has an IAT (Intake Air Temperature) sensor built in and this info is fed into the computer. Again, if ducting colder air could really gain an engine 20 HP, the manufacturers would be all over this. But they are not.

 

[satyajitmenon]

Both are wrong, obviously. There are pros and cons to the setup, and YMMV, most usually depending on what motor/car you're working with.

This x 100

On my truck, I've got an aftermarket intake (not just the filter in the stock airbox, but also the intake tube leading all the way to the throttle body) cos it actually does help the 5.6 V8 breathe better - but only cos I've got an aftermarket 93 Octane tune, and mostly at higher rpms. Else might as well leave it with the stock intake.

On my BMW 530, no point. It's running bone stock and adding an aftermarket intake would make no difference (aside from sound) cos the stock intake is pretty well designed from the factory.