Getting tired of my CAI

[Ns1]

AFAIK, the main reason stock intake systems are more restrictive and not similar to CAI :

(1)- NVH. The less restrictive the intake, generally it follows that you hear more noise from it. As a general rule, lower noise is a goal in stock vehicles, even moderately sporty ones.

(2)- Paper filters are more reliable at stopping dirt/etc compared to K&N style filters, even if they're a bit less restrictive in absolute airflow. With a stock intake setup, this is a good thing to have a regular paper filter.

(3)- Baffling to make it very difficult for water to get into the actual fuel injection/intake portion of the motor. This is why stock intakes usually follow a very crazy looking up and down path before it even hits the filterbox. Water in the intake = problems, as it looks like you're experiencing.

(4)- Most of the gains from a CAI, assuming you have a motor which can benefit from the increased flow potential, are at relatively high RPM range, which is irrelevant to most people at best.

You will find crazy people of all stripes.

Some will say that CAI is always a gimmick, never does anything good, etc.

Some will say that CAI is great, always great, these are usually the people who also think that a K&N filter by itself in a stock airbox with stock ECU is capable of some sort of amazing gains.

Both are wrong, obviously. There are pros and cons to the setup, and YMMV, most usually depending on what motor/car you're working with.

+infinity

Again, if ducting colder air could really gain an engine 20 HP, the manufacturers would be all over this. But they are not.

See #1 - #4 above

And here is a dyno not from K&N or CAI manufacturers with a 10% gain on a mazdaspeed3

http://www.mazda3forums.com/showthread.php?t=267680

 

[JCH13]

The wild HP claims are those from K&N and the CAI manufacturers. They are not realistic. The same internet research shows how inflated these claims are.

As for the cold air theory, keep in mind that your MAF (Mass Air Flow) sensor has an IAT (Intake Air Temperature) sensor built in and this info is fed into the computer. Again, if ducting colder air could really gain an engine 20 HP, the manufacturers would be all over this. But they are not.

I'm not talking about K&N, nor did I cite claims from any CAI manufacturer. I noted one forum user and one auto magazine. I am talking about one specific instance where a CAI shows consistent, real, gains. Not all cars see performance gains from a CAI system, and not all CAIs are created equal.

The 'cold air theory' works IRL. Cars with lower IATs can burn more fuel and run more advanced timing, both of which improve power output.

Manufactures do take advantage of cold air in many cases. Any car with a hood duct, for example. If you take a close look at many intake systems they draw air in from a cold source. Some times there are ways to draw air from even colder sources. But all of this is situationally dependent, CAIs are never always good or always bad.

 

[j&j]

The wild HP claims are those from K&N and the CAI manufacturers. They are not realistic. The same internet research shows how inflated these claims are.

As for the cold air theory, keep in mind that your MAF (Mass Air Flow) sensor has an IAT (Intake Air Temperature) sensor built in and this info is fed into the computer. Again, if ducting colder air could really gain an engine 20 HP, the manufacturers would be all over this. But they are not.

you are super ignorant dude, probably should go ahead and shut your mouth as you keep digging deeper and deeper.

manufacturers know about this of course, but putting a cold air intake on a mass produced car has too much liability for someone offering 36 months at minimum bumper to bumper warranty on a car. Granted, even with a CAI, the chances of hydro-locking ur motor from cai sucking water up into the engine are slim. When thousands of people have stock vehicles everywhere doing it, the manufacturer won't risk that.

On boosted cars that flow more air, a good cold air intake can help greatly with power. remember, an engine is simply an air pump, more air in, more air out, more power, it's simply really.

my 03 cobra was the same way, a simple cold air kit netted 20+rwhp and 20+rwtq, that's to the ground.

when the IAT's are lower the ECU can advance timing more, thus creating more power. the hotter the IAT's the less power you'll make generally, and if they get really hot, the ECU will retard timing to avoid engine knock, which is why on a colder/dry day, you're car will feel faster.

 

[disappoint]

3) My gas mileage is pretty high. I've measured as high as 30.06MPG for a full tank of gas on a road trip with cruise control set to 65MPG. EPA is 25MPG highway. Don't have proof that the CAI is helping in this respect but I tell myself that when I fall asleep, and I sleep well enough.

Your 65MPG gaffe when you meant MPH belies your claim to a well rested and now alert mind.

Just kidding, we all make mistakes from time to time.

Anyway, higher than normal fuel economy with a rough running (and sometimes stalling) engine might be an indication of too lean a mixture. This is consistent with a MAF sensor not sending the right data to the computer. If it's dirty, it's not sensing all the air going past it so more air is getting in the engine than the computer realizes, causing an overly lean mixture.

It could also be a vacuum leak somewhere after the MAF which would cause a lean mix even if the MAF is functioning perfectly.

 

[JCH13]

Your 65MPG gaffe when you meant MPH belies your claim to a well rested and now alert mind.

Just kidding, we all make mistakes from time to time.

Anyway, higher than normal fuel economy with a rough running (and sometimes stalling) engine might be an indication of too lean a mixture. This is consistent with a MAF sensor not sending the right data to the computer. If it's dirty, it's not sensing all the air going past it so more air is getting in the engine than the computer realizes, causing an overly lean mixture.

It could also be a vacuum leak somewhere after the MAF which would cause a lean mix even if the MAF is functioning perfectly.

30MPG is good, but not unreasonable, fuel economy for the 2.3L DISI engine. I would not conclude that something is amiss from getting 30MPG.

The cause is almost definitely the known issue of using an un-shielded MSCAI in rainy weather.

 

[exdeath]

Water in the intake shouldn't a problem. People running higher boost on pump gas inject water into the intake on purpose. :awe:

The effectiveness of an "intake" on boosted car is a whole different game. Intake temps, compressor inlet starvation and cavitation, etc. You can see HUGE gains on boosted cars by removing any compressor inlet restriction and turbulence, especially with increased boost.

 

[railer]

I read up on CAI's a bit before installing the Vararam on my G8. The consensus I got was that people were picking up betweenn 5 and 10% with a CAI and a handheld tune. (Using a Cortex or something similar). I know my Cortex has specific tunes for Vararam or Rotofab CAI's. There are quantifiable differences that can be measured with CAI's:

http://ls1tech.com/forums/dynamomet...s/1160740-no-bs-dyno-test-vararam-cai-g8.html

 

[Howard]

Water in the intake shouldn't a problem. People running higher boost on pump gas inject water into the intake on purpose. :awe:

The effectiveness of an "intake" on boosted car is a whole different game. Intake temps, compressor inlet starvation and cavitation, etc. You can see HUGE gains on boosted cars by removing any compressor inlet restriction and turbulence, especially with increased boost.

Yeah but the booster thing chops up the water into ATOMS so the engine can eat it better bro

EDIT: Engines run better when you let them eat, because you don't want engines to starve

 

[jlee]

Sorry, but no matter how you plumb the air into your engine, it can only accept a certain amount. No CAI or K&N filter is a supercharger or turbocharger. In comparing a stock air cleaner assembly (with a clean air filter) to a CAI, why would a CAI flow more air? It wouldn’t. They both flow about 3 or 4 times more than your engine even needs. Actually using this same logic, removing the air filter assembly completely (no restrictions at all now) should give you even more horsepower. It doesn’t.

On the other hand, if I had listened to all the BS about CAI and K&N filters and spent upward of 3 or 4 hundred dollars, I would also claim that I’m not a fool and that I can feel the difference in the car. What you are actually feeling is; hearing the engine noise.

In the manufactures race of horsepower numbers, do you really think that if adding a CAI or K&N to the engine would generate an addition 20 HP they would not do this? Not ONE manufacturer does this? Why is that? Manufacturers have much better labs and research than K&N or any CAI manufacturer. They don’t do it because it doesn’t work. It looks good and sounds good, but that is it. No horsepower, none, zero, zilch.

An engine will only use the amount of air that it needs. On a stock engine or even slightly modified engine, the stock air filter will flow more air than you need. If you wanted to test this, you can add a mechanical vacuum gauge between the engine and filter. If you read any vacuum, then the engine is not getting enough air. Otherwise, the engine is getting enough air.

If you have worked a lot on dynos, you will know that even testing the same car two hours later can show a 10 horsepower difference.

The Mazdaspeed6 would show boost on a gauge if you got on the throttle - not vacuum. No, an intake is not a turbocharger. But the turbocharger that Mazda put in there is, in fact, a turbocharger.

Or are were you entirely unaware of this little fact?

 

[KentState]

The Mazdaspeed6 would show boost on a gauge if you got on the throttle - not vacuum. No, an intake is not a turbocharger. But the turbocharger that Mazda put in there is, in fact, a turbocharger.

Or are were you entirely unaware of this little fact?

He's talking about another gauge before the turbo which would be on the vacuum side.

Regardless, I'm not familiar with the Mazda 3/6 intake limitations but once I put on a new pulley on my car, it was easy to collapse the OEM intake tube at 15psi. Just that fact alone meant I need a new intake, plus the stock box can not flow enough.

 

[jlee]

He's talking about another gauge before the turbo which would be on the vacuum side.

Regardless, I'm not familiar with the Mazda 3/6 intake limitations but once I put on a new pulley on my car, it was easy to collapse the OEM intake tube at 15psi. Just that fact alone meant I need a new intake, plus the stock box can not flow enough.

Ah, yeah - it should've said between the turbo and filter.

Now I'm tempted to try that just to see...but I don't have a stock airbox. I have a mandrel bent 3" pipe to a cone filter.

 

[brainhulk]

Im thinking about ditching my kn fipk. But my ecu is tuned for it. I dont know how it would respond to replacing the filter with just a regular dry element. I hate putting oil and worrying about fouling the maf. I would rather just replace a dry one

 

[JCH13]

Im thinking about ditching my kn fipk. But my ecu is tuned for it. I dont know how it would respond to replacing the filter with just a regular dry element. I hate putting oil and worrying about fouling the maf. I would rather just replace a dry one

Are you boosted?

 

[brainhulk]

Are you boosted?

nope, just fipk,throttle body, headers, hfc, and cat back

06 s2000

 

[JCH13]

nope, just fipk,throttle body, headers, hfc, and cat back

06 s2000

I would put a dry filter on and not give it a second thought. Your ECU might see a slightly different amount of air coming in, but this is not too different from slightly changing the throttle position.

Besides, a good dryflow filter will flow the same, or better, than a K&N.

 

[brainhulk]

I would put a dry filter on and not give it a second thought. Your ECU might see a slightly different amount of air coming in, but this is not too different from slightly changing the throttle position.

Besides, a good dryflow filter will flow the same, or better, than a K&N.

Ok, i'll try to see if I can find one. I have a track day at buttonwillow this sunday, hopefully i can find one before then

 

[brainhulk]

www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000N203CA...w_bottom_links

I ordered this aem dry flow filter. Hopefully this one works ok

 

[JCH13]

www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000N203CA...w_bottom_links

I ordered this aem dry flow filter. Hopefully this one works ok

I've got a similar one on my Miata.

 

[Zap]

Thread got a bit sidetracked...

This is my OBDII reader that I cannot find. I'm considering buying this one for $17. Worth it? Drawback is spending more money to replace something that is misplaced and which I'll probably find when I'm not looking for it. Benefit is that it can be used while driving (one I have/lost would stick down quite a bit) and can be used with smartphones as well as PCs.

BTW as usual the CEL left of its own accord. Seems to be back to normal... until the next good rain.