Getting an LCD! Am I just kidding myself?

[Mem]

Just remembe to put on sunglasses, so you don't get blinded by the off-beat red

Hehe yes my LCD was bright but I have the brightness set at 10 out of the 100 max setting,also gamma is turned down in ATI Control panel as well so I don`t need to wear any sunglasses now .

 

[VIAN]

That must've been some brightness. I haven't met an LCD yet where I didn't have it at 100 or 80.

 

[Mem]

That must've been some brightness. I haven't met an LCD yet where I didn't have it at 100 or 80.

I prefer a darker screen(brightness wise) even when I had my CRTs,but yes it was brighter then any of my old CRTs.

 

[Tab]

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Your leaving out other details.
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No other details are important for gaming.

No, they are important. What about being able to look at the display for extend periods of time with out eyestrain? What about portablity to lan parties?

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Ben and BFG10k I like to understand how your doing this math conversion between the pixel reponse time and FPS. How are you working this out exactly?
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1/response = framerate

Uh, what?

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resident CRT nazis
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Would you care to be called a LCD pedophile? If not, drop the nazi bullsh!t.

Making a post saying LCDs have a inferior refresh without explaining doens't look good at all.
On the other hand VIAN is just a flaming idiot that I have no respect for, I hope he dies.

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Yes, but is 1024x768 and 1280 x 1024 a big difference? Is it really going to distort that much?
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Yes it is, not even including the fact that you are trying to fit a 4:3 ratio inside a 5:4 ratio screen. Now it doesn't matter what you change be it resolution or refresh rate, the screen will look blurry.

So your telling me the loss the 256x256 is that bad? Guess you should come with me to bestbuy sometime...

Bottom line, CRTs are more flexible and much, much cheaper. Top of the line 19" CRT may range from 250-300 dollars. Top of the line LCD which has response time compareable to a CRT, 16ms, which needs to be 17", will cost 500-600 dollars. Exactly twice the price.

Quit chaning your words VIAN. Just STFU and die already.

---

Take your juvenile pissing contests with VIAN outside. If I see another one between you, I will send the one who starts it packing. If I cannot decide who starts it, I will send both of you away.

Your ONLY choices are to ne nice or to be somewhere else.

AnandTech Moderator

 

[VIAN]

You have been shot down. Just fall, no smoke trails are needed.

 

[VIAN]

1/response = framerate

Uh, what?

"one over time equals frequency"

This is a basic formula.

 

[agent2099]

Originally posted by: BFG10K
LOL Tabb, you're very keen to continue the discussion aren't you?

1)So what if they cant run them properly? Its called scaling, whats wrong with that? It works and it looks good.

LCD pixels are a fixed size, unlike a CRT whose size changes according to resolution. That means that when running an LCD out of its native resolution you'll get a wide range of scaling artifacts, possibly including bluriness and/or black borders on the edges of the screen.
.

LOL this is simply not true. I game almost every day at non-native resolutions and I never experience these scaling artifacts or black borders. (UT2k4, TFC, Counterstrike, COD, Medal of Honor, Max Payne etc. etc. etc.) The games look identical to the way they did on my CRT. No problems at all.

 

[VIAN]

Look at them side by side. Scaling in itself is an artifact and makes things look blurry. It happens in all LCDs and there is no way you can deny that. I've only seen the borders in an LCD from a laptop where you have the option to chose if you want scaling or not. If you want to notice the blurriness, just go to the desktop and change from your native resolution. Everything will be less crisp.

 

[agent2099]

Originally posted by: BenSkywalker
LCDs suck for gaming. CRTs suck if you want to save space. There are a lot of other problems that could be brought up about LCDs, dead pixels being a major one, less then optimal color ratios, some people dislike the cost of them. I have told many people to pick up LCDs that aren't gamers, for them it's a suitable alternative to CRTs, but not for a gamer.

If you want to dispute this, I'd gladly compare my 2141SB-BK to your 1760 for gaming.

[/quote]


LOL. LCDs suck for gaming? Don't you just love blanket statements like this?


There are only 2 options, LCD or CRT. So one of them must suck and one must be great right?

That's like saying Playstation2 sucks for graphics because XBox has great graphics. Simply because one must be the best and another the worst. Of course we know that generally XBox games have better graphics but there are still some great looking graphics on the PS2.


The same can be said for LCDs, there are some that suck for gaming but there are others that don't. True CRTs are better for gaming, that is a fact. But that doesn't mean all LCDs suck for gaming. Are we operating on a 0 or 10 scale here or perhaps a 0 to 10 scale. The truth is you just have to do allot more homework to find a suitable gaming LCD. And once you do you will find LCDs that are good for gaming, none as good as an equivalently priced CRT, but they are good enough nonetheless. Whereas any used $100 15" CRT monitor will give you ok gaming performance that is simply not the fact with LCDs.

 

[agent2099]

Originally posted by: VIAN
Look at them side by side. Scaling in itself is an artifact and makes things look blurry. It happens in all LCDs and there is no way you can deny that. I've only seen the borders in an LCD from a laptop where you have the option to chose if you want scaling or not. If you want to notice the blurriness, just go to the desktop and change from your native resolution. Everything will be less crisp.

You are right, at non-native resolutions the images are not as crisp. If this is what he meant by "artifacts" then that is correct. I took it to mean something much worse. However the result really isn't that bad as most games you have to scale are older games that don't have a super clean look to begin with (ie tfc.) Most newer games will run at native LCD resolutions so this is not an issue most of the time.

 

[jrphoenix]

Originally posted by: BFG10K

Are you saying bluriness and black borders are artifacts?

Yes.

Black Borders would just be the screen reszing itself

No, black borders are caused by unlit pixels as some LCDs do when they're requested to run resolutions lower than their native size.

Anyway, show me LCDs that put black borders.

How exactly am I supposed to do that?

Of course its possible that CRTs do this too.

Actually it isn't because CRTs will light all of their pixels regardless of the resolution.


Best bet for running different resolutions on an LCD.... Get an LCD that has a native resolution of 1600 x 1200 (like the Samsung 213 t). If you need to go down in resolution (which I usually don't do).. you can go down to 800 x 600 a perfect fit for the pixels on the screen. Just a suggestion.

 

[Alptraum]

Well, wether you believe LCDs are inferior to CRTs or not for me personally its the other way around. My 19" LCD looks better then either my Mitsubishi 2040u or Sony G520p. And that goes for gaming, and everything else I use my computer for. The image is just better. With a handful of exceptions everybody I know that owns a good quality LCD prefers it to CRTs. While most of the people I know that go on and on about how they are inferior do not own one.

 

[Mem]

Well, wether you believe LCDs are inferior to CRTs or not for me personally its the other way around. My 19" LCD looks better then either my Mitsubishi 2040u or Sony G520p

This is one of the reasons why I love my Samsung 191T,the crispness of RPG type games where you`re in the forest with trees etc,the detail in DVI mode is awesome,no CRT I`ve ever seen comes close ,another reason why RPG type games which are my favourite give me that extra gaming pleasure with my LCD.

 

[VIAN]

some great looking graphics on the PS2

I'm sorry, but I can't stand PS2 graphics. They annoy me so much that it makes the game a lot less enjoyable. I guess it's all the tricks they use to make the games look more fluid or attempt to look better. It's like Dolby NR, it takes the white noise away from the music, but it also takes many things away from the music. It doesn't sound as lively.

 

[jrphoenix]

Originally posted by: Mem

Well, wether you believe LCDs are inferior to CRTs or not for me personally its the other way around. My 19" LCD looks better then either my Mitsubishi 2040u or Sony G520p

This is one of the reasons why I love my Samsung 191T,the crispness of RPG type games where you`re in the forest with trees etc,the detail in DVI mode is awesome,no CRT I`ve ever seen comes close ,another reason why RPG type games which are my favourite give me that extra gaming pleasure with my LCD.

I couldn't agree more.... My favorite games are Battlefield 1942 (desert combat mod) and Medieval Total War (can't wait for the upcoming Rome Total War). My Samsung 213t is crisp and just all around awesome! On battlefield I can see some minor ghosting (25 ms pixel response time) on the game..... but the benefits of this beautiful monitor more than make up for this. Your eyes really get accustomed to any minor ghosting and you don't see it!

 

[Tab]

Originally posted by: VIAN

1/response = framerate

Uh, what?

"one over time equals frequency"

This is a basic formula.

Why? So, wait. If my respone time is 16... is 1/16 = 0.0625 or 16 either way.. I know my moniter freq is greater than 16 and I see way more than 16 fps.

 

[BFG10K]

What about being able to look at the display for extend periods of time with out eyestrain?

Eye strain is a relative thing. Some people have eye strain on LCDs and not CRTs and vice versa. Overall though I'd probably still give the nod to LCDs for superiority in this one but it certainly isn't clear-cut.

What about portablity to lan parties?

That falls more under the category of transportation and storage.

Uh, what?

Take the number 1, divide it by the response time and you will get the frequency (framerate, refresh rate, update rate or whatever you wish to call it). If you want to calculate the response time from the framerate then simply use simple algebra to rearrange the formula.

Why?

Because it's simple physics, largely derived from the properties of waves.

So, wait. If my respone time is 16... is 1/16 = 0.0625 or 16 either way..

No, it's 1/0.016 which is 62.5 FPS.

 

[BFG10K]

LOL this is simply not true. I game almost every day at non-native resolutions and I never experience these scaling artifacts or black borders. (UT2k4, TFC, Counterstrike, COD, Medal of Honor, Max Payne etc. etc. etc.) The games look identical to the way they did on my CRT.

Unless you are running at exactly 1/4 of your native resolution, I think not. You are either getting blurring and/or black borders (which cause a reduced screen size).

If this is what he meant by "artifacts" then that is correct. I took it to mean something much worse.

I'm pretty sure I've stated at least three times what I mean by artifacts.

 

[agent2099]

Originally posted by: VIAN

some great looking graphics on the PS2

I'm sorry, but I can't stand PS2 graphics. They annoy me so much that it makes the game a lot less enjoyable. I guess it's all the tricks they use to make the games look more fluid or attempt to look better. It's like Dolby NR, it takes the white noise away from the music, but it also takes many things away from the music. It doesn't sound as lively.

Then change that example to Gamecube and XBox. Whatever suits you best.

 

[Tab]

Oh please, we are talking about gaming... You mean to tell me that doesn't involve lan parties or looking at a moniter for extended periods of time?

 

[SneakyStuff]

parhaps this thread has reached the end of its' usefullness, this whole VIAN Tabb thing seemed to get the moderator a little angry.

Take your juvenile pissing contests with VIAN outside. If I see another one between you, I will send the one who starts it packing. If I cannot decide who starts it, I will send both of you away.

Never seen the moderator intervene like that before

 

[VIAN]

Oh please, we are talking about gaming... You mean to tell me that doesn't involve lan parties or looking at a moniter for extended periods of time?

I am a gamer and I don't lan. If it isn't assumed them let it be specified.