Germany's TRUE reasons for not wanting war??

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Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,265
126
Originally posted by: dudleydocker
two comments: First of all I am 100% German. My Dad flew P-47s and P-51s against his ancestors during WW II. He has visited cemeteries in Europe to see the graves of his fallen comrades. He has frequently "compared notes" with Luftansa pilots (well some years ago, he's 80!) and run acrcoss gentlemen who he would have been up against. I have NOTHING against with the German people. It is the utter HIPPOCRACY of their government to delcare unequivically that they will NOT go to war under ANY circumstances. The German economy is is the toilet worse than ours. Schroeder's critic's say he is using the "peace" initiative to draw attention away from the way the economy sucks. Secondly it is NOT the inspectors job to play "find the weapons". Saddam continues to hold to his position of "ain't got 'em, they're gone". This should be an interesting stand for him to maintain next week after Colin Powell addresses the Security Council. It is, and has been all along, incumbent upon Iraq to PROVE the weapons in question were destroyed. And if they still have 'em, 'fess up and drive the damn things on trucks right up in front of where the NATO inspectors are staying!!!!!

It has been argued that Bush has stirred this up to distract Americans for the same reason. Perhaps the Europeans have a better idea of what war is than the US, and since Saddam poses no credable threat to them, they are reluctant to participate. Their choice.
 

dahunan

Lifer
Jan 10, 2002
18,191
3
0
Germany is also DEEPLY infested with Muslim Terrorists who would try to rip it to shreds if they supported the U.S.

The 9/11 bombings were planned in Germany

Liberalism kills :Q
 

ROTC1983

Diamond Member
Oct 2, 2002
6,130
0
71
Originally posted by: Carbonyl
Originally posted by: ROTC1983
Originally posted by: Carbonyl
There's a little nazi in every German. Be careful.

Hey, STFU, I am German, and I don't see that as funny :disgust:

Me niether. But I tend to generalize just to play it safe. So does the US hence thier not leaving yet.


Ok, I kinda overreacted. I guess I got mad because since so many people think it is funny to call me a "Nazi" since I am German and in ROTC...
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
Iraq is germanys Lebensraum.

ROTC-I like germans but we can never forget:) And never forget it would take them about 4 weeks to pose a threart if they wanted to.
 

Damage

Senior member
Dec 3, 2001
491
0
0
Originally posted by: Carbonyl
Iraq is germanys Lebensraum.

ROTC-I like germans but we can never forget:) And never forget it would take them about 4 weeks to pose a threart if they wanted to.

Yeah BMW building nukes "The Ultimate Destruction Machine".. ;)
 

CPA

Elite Member
Nov 19, 2001
30,322
4
0
Originally posted by: Hayabusarider
Originally posted by: dudleydocker
two comments: First of all I am 100% German. My Dad flew P-47s and P-51s against his ancestors during WW II. He has visited cemeteries in Europe to see the graves of his fallen comrades. He has frequently "compared notes" with Luftansa pilots (well some years ago, he's 80!) and run acrcoss gentlemen who he would have been up against. I have NOTHING against with the German people. It is the utter HIPPOCRACY of their government to delcare unequivically that they will NOT go to war under ANY circumstances. The German economy is is the toilet worse than ours. Schroeder's critic's say he is using the "peace" initiative to draw attention away from the way the economy sucks. Secondly it is NOT the inspectors job to play "find the weapons". Saddam continues to hold to his position of "ain't got 'em, they're gone". This should be an interesting stand for him to maintain next week after Colin Powell addresses the Security Council. It is, and has been all along, incumbent upon Iraq to PROVE the weapons in question were destroyed. And if they still have 'em, 'fess up and drive the damn things on trucks right up in front of where the NATO inspectors are staying!!!!!

It has been argued that Bush has stirred this up to distract Americans for the same reason. Perhaps the Europeans have a better idea of what war is than the US, and since Saddam poses no credable threat to them, they are reluctant to participate. Their choice.

Or maybe the EU is starting to see the truth


Germany and France -- which has said it will coordinate its Iraq policy with Berlin -- were left isolated this week by a letter signed by eight European leaders backing the tough U.S. stance on Iraq and urging unity.
 

Hanpan

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2000
4,812
0
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I do not have the time to dicuss this, however are sizeably portion of Germany's population is muslum. (about 10%)

It would be ignorant not to consider this as at least a possible reason.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,265
126
Originally posted by: CPA
Originally posted by: Hayabusarider
Originally posted by: dudleydocker two comments: First of all I am 100% German. My Dad flew P-47s and P-51s against his ancestors during WW II. He has visited cemeteries in Europe to see the graves of his fallen comrades. He has frequently "compared notes" with Luftansa pilots (well some years ago, he's 80!) and run acrcoss gentlemen who he would have been up against. I have NOTHING against with the German people. It is the utter HIPPOCRACY of their government to delcare unequivically that they will NOT go to war under ANY circumstances. The German economy is is the toilet worse than ours. Schroeder's critic's say he is using the "peace" initiative to draw attention away from the way the economy sucks. Secondly it is NOT the inspectors job to play "find the weapons". Saddam continues to hold to his position of "ain't got 'em, they're gone". This should be an interesting stand for him to maintain next week after Colin Powell addresses the Security Council. It is, and has been all along, incumbent upon Iraq to PROVE the weapons in question were destroyed. And if they still have 'em, 'fess up and drive the damn things on trucks right up in front of where the NATO inspectors are staying!!!!!
It has been argued that Bush has stirred this up to distract Americans for the same reason. Perhaps the Europeans have a better idea of what war is than the US, and since Saddam poses no credable threat to them, they are reluctant to participate. Their choice.
Or maybe the EU is starting to see the truth Germany and France -- which has said it will coordinate its Iraq policy with Berlin -- were left isolated this week by a letter signed by eight European leaders backing the tough U.S. stance on Iraq and urging unity.

You know I never thought the Germans would fear Poland.

So we have 8 European countries willing to attack. OK, that is their choice. Somehow I think Germany has as much to fear from these countries as we have the Canadian Provences.
 

Kadarin

Lifer
Nov 23, 2001
44,303
15
81
Originally posted by: Hanpan
I do not have the time to dicuss this, however are sizeably portion of Germany's population is muslum. (about 10%)

It would be ignorant not to consider this as at least a possible reason.

I believe France has a similar problem.
 

Kadarin

Lifer
Nov 23, 2001
44,303
15
81
Originally posted by: exp
Bah, you lie. Everyone knows that the Great Satan is the only country that ever acts out of its own economic self-interest. France & Germany are nations of philosopher kings, seeking only to spread peace and joy to their fellow man.

Yes, promoting the UN as the final arbiter of all things (all things, that is, that are against US interests..)
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
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Originally posted by: hagbard
Originally posted by: CPA
Originally posted by: hagbard
Originally posted by: Nemesis77
Weren't there american companies on the list also?

I have to run, but here's one list of what the US government gave to the Iraqis during the 80s

"The Receipts" that Bush has to prove Saddam has bio weapons

I'll dig around later and find the list of companies doing business with Iraq.


uhhh, most of those were antibodies and non-virulent strains.

Sure..sure..

Also, it's not up to Bush to prove Saddam has bio weapons, it's up to Saddam to prove he doesn't. Do you not understand that?

How do you prove you don't have something?


Real simple. You show where the weapons were destroyed. You explain how they were destroyed. You interview the people that were involved in the destruction. You allow for interviews of current scientists. So far none of these have been offered.
 
Aug 10, 2001
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A group of Gulf War veterans have filed a lawsuit against chemical companies that supplied materials to Iraq in the 1980's. Sixteen of the companies listed in the lawsuit are German companies.

And the French helped build that nuclear reactor for the Iraqis (the one that the Israelis bombed) knowing full well that it would be used to produce atomic weapons.

But of course all we hear about are the two defunct American chemical companies that sold trace amounts of chemical and biological precursors to the Iraqis during the 1980's.
 

SnapIT

Banned
Jul 8, 2002
4,355
1
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Originally posted by: dahunan
Germany is also DEEPLY infested with Muslim Terrorists who would try to rip it to shreds if they supported the U.S.

The 9/11 bombings were planned in Germany

Liberalism kills :Q

OK, so you are german and 10 years old?
 

etech

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
10,597
0
0
Originally posted by: hagbard
Originally posted by: CPA
Originally posted by: hagbard
Originally posted by: Nemesis77
Weren't there american companies on the list also?

I have to run, but here's one list of what the US government gave to the Iraqis during the 80s

"The Receipts" that Bush has to prove Saddam has bio weapons

I'll dig around later and find the list of companies doing business with Iraq.


uhhh, most of those were antibodies and non-virulent strains.

Sure..sure..

Also, it's not up to Bush to prove Saddam has bio weapons, it's up to Saddam to prove he doesn't. Do you not understand that?

How do you prove you don't have something?

One way would be to take the approach that South Africa did. They declared that they would give up their weapons. They invited the inspectors in to their plants and facilities. The activily cooperated and volunteered information.

Iraq has lied and hidden and hindered the inspectors who would not be in Iraq right now except for the threat of force. Iraq has not fully cooperated or declared what happened to all of the weapons that were in Iraq in 1998.

How do you prove you don't have something - you don't do it the way Iraq is.

 

katka

Senior member
Jun 19, 2001
708
0
0
Gulf War veterans were acting on behalf of the US. Why have they been treated badly and denied promised benefits by their own Government? Iraq, like any other country is protecting itself, when going to war surely they weren't going to use sneezing power.

France, may not keep fighting wars because it costs money and that is not they way that they spend their citizens resources.
 

Rockhound

Senior member
Oct 9, 1999
408
0
0
Originally posted by: hagbard
Originally posted by: CPA
Originally posted by: hagbard
Originally posted by: Nemesis77
Weren't there american companies on the list also?

I have to run, but here's one list of what the US government gave to the Iraqis during the 80s

"The Receipts" that Bush has to prove Saddam has bio weapons

I'll dig around later and find the list of companies doing business with Iraq.


uhhh, most of those were antibodies and non-virulent strains.

Sure..sure..

Also, it's not up to Bush to prove Saddam has bio weapons, it's up to Saddam to prove he doesn't. Do you not understand that?

How do you prove you don't have something?

Oh, you can't be serious!!! That was the whole point of resolution 1441! You prove it by letting inspectors go wherever they want and show them you have nothing. You prove it by documentating that you destroyed your weapons. You open all your doors and say come on in we have nothing to hide. Duh! I suppose all those countries that agreed to resolution 1441 didn't know what they were doing or saying when they wrote it and said it was up to Iraq to prove they have destroyed their weapons. Not very hard to do. Show the world you destroyed everything by showing the pieces. Throwing out inspectors in 1998 just doesn't cut it now does it?

 

Siddhartha

Lifer
Oct 17, 1999
12,502
1
81
Why is it hard to believe that people are against attacking Iraq because it is a bad idea?
 

GoingUp

Lifer
Jul 31, 2002
16,720
1
71
Originally posted by: Gobadgrs
Originally posted by: ROTC1983
Originally posted by: Carbonyl
There's a little nazi in every German. Be careful.

Hey, STFU, I am German, and I don't see that as funny :disgust:

me either carbonyl you dick

why dont you add, theres a little terrorist in every arab or a little black panther in every african american while youre at it?
 

Rockhound

Senior member
Oct 9, 1999
408
0
0
Originally posted by: Dr Smooth
Why is it hard to believe that some people think attacking Iraq is a bad idea because it is a bad idea?

Its not. Its just that the reasoning behind it is flawed. Obviously if war could be avoided then great. But not at the expense of thousands of American lives which, in the big scheme of things, is what Saddam's and the terrorists' target is. Along with Israel and whoever else they see as a threat to Islam.