Germany tells social media companies to delete hate speech or face fines

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UglyCasanova

Lifer
Mar 25, 2001
19,275
1,361
126
Facebooks logic on "hate speech" released. Im sure they and others will be using the same methods to try and satisfy German law (else they'd have to hire an army of people to sift through it because they have 24 hours to look at every reported incident).

https://www.wired.com/story/facebook-hate-speech-moderation/

According to Facebook’s rules, there are protected categories—like sex, gender identity, race and religious affiliation—and non-protected categories—like social class, occupation, appearance, and age. If speech refers to the former, it’s hate speech; if it’s refers to the latter, it’s not. So, “we should murder all the Muslims” is hate speech. “We should murder all the poor people” is not.

This binary designation might make some uncomfortable, but it’s when protected and unprotected classes get linked together in a sentence—a compound category—that Facebook’s policies become extra strange. Facebook’s logic dictates the following:

Protected category + Protected category = Protected category

Protected category + Unprotected category =Unprotected

To illustrate this, Facebook’s training materials provide three examples—“white men”, “female drivers”, and “black children”—and states that only the first of these is protected from hate speech. The answer is “white men.” Why? Because “white” + “male” = protected class + protected class, and thus, the resulting class of people protected. Counterintuitively, because “black” (a protected class) modifies “children” (not protected), the group is unprotected.

Insanity. It combats "hate" though right? Sure..
 

UglyCasanova

Lifer
Mar 25, 2001
19,275
1,361
126
ah, the bane of the deplorable... To be such at worry about nothing, while ingoring the beam in their eye....


Worry about nothing?

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/20/...ed-of-hateful-postings-over-social-media.html

Most of the raids concerned politically motivated right-wing incitement, according to the Federal Criminal Police Office, whose officers conducted home searches and interrogations. But the raids also targeted two people accused of left-wing extremist content, as well as one person accused of making threats or harassment based on someone’s sexual orientation.

Government silencing political speech it doesn't like, yup happened in Germany before...

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stasi
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,733
6,758
126
This is the kind of thing that happens when free speech is abused to produce something like Nazi Germany and it remains somewhat fresh in people's memories.

Hope we don't have to go through a similar learning curve. We learned good manners and the need to be nice in kindergarten. I guess hate speech laws are for slow learners. All the cool guys on TV, though, never play by the rules. But then they are also always the good guys.
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
22,233
6,428
136
ah, the bane of the deplorable... To be such at worry about nothing, while ingoring the beam in their eye....
I don't think anyone here is worried about it, it's simply a topic to discuss. It's an interesting topic because we have a government arresting people for saying something branded as "hate speech". The DPRK does it and no one much cares because we expect it of them, but when a nation that's an industrial powerhouse and responsible for two world wars does it, that's something that gets noticed.
 

Grooveriding

Diamond Member
Dec 25, 2008
9,147
1,330
126
People should be able to say whatever they want, short of outright calling for violence against a person or group. Reading this though, I can't understand the fear over this, when what Trump is doing against the media is far more dangerous.

Social media outlets are free to shut up anyone for any reason. There is no entitlement to free speech on private mediums. I don't agree with shutting down radical fanatics, let them make fools of themselves if they want to. But, I am all for Facebook's big new mandate to shut down fake news garbage. If people are posting links to the sort of garbage that was being peddled by shitholes like Breitbart, judicial watch, daily caller, gateway pundit etc. Just straight up fake news conspiracy garbage, wipe that shit right out of existence. Twitter are the ones dropping the ball on that right now. They need to eradicate the bots and all the fake news garbage that gets spread there.

There are too many gullible fools out there that can't digest and assess information with any reasonable aptitude.
 
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UglyCasanova

Lifer
Mar 25, 2001
19,275
1,361
126
Defending the right of government to lock up its citizens for expressing the wrong ideas, "extremist" talk. Shameful, Putin is also one to do that.

I'm shifting gears to this side of the Atlantic but growing up the freedom of speech was always defended an celebrated, and it seemed to be something that both sides could agree on. I always heard talk regarding flag burning and the like the saying "I may not agree with what you say but I'll die for your right to say it".

What happened?
 

UglyCasanova

Lifer
Mar 25, 2001
19,275
1,361
126
People should be able to say whatever they want, short of outright calling for violence against a person or group. Reading this though, I can't understand the fear over this, when what Trump is doing against the media is far more dangerous.

Social media outlets are free to shut up anyone for any reason. There is no entitlement to free speech on private mediums. I don't agree with shutting down radical fanatics, let them make fools of themselves if they want to. But, I am all for Facebook's big new mandate to shut down fake news garbage. If people are posting links to the sort of garbage that was being peddled by shitholes like Breitbart, judicial watch, daily caller, gateway pundit etc. Just straight up fake news conspiracy garbage, wipe that shit right out of existence. Twitter are the ones dropping the ball on that right now. They need to eradicate the bots and all the fake news garbage that gets spread there.

There are too many gullible fools out there that can't digest and assess information with any reasonable aptitude.


There's a big difference between private companies not allowing it on their platforms and the government telling those private companies they can't have it on their platforms.

Regarding Trump I agree what he is doing to the media is horrible and eroding one of the cornerstones of our democracy. That isn't "worse" than this though (and the attitude to censor speech that is more and more pervasive) and trying to justify one wrong with another isn't the right approach. Freedom to express oneself individually and freedom of our press to hold government accountable are both critical.
 

UglyCasanova

Lifer
Mar 25, 2001
19,275
1,361
126
What happened is, cowardly half-wits, like yourself, can't provide anything to back up a claim they make.

This is from the top of the front page, see that last part since you're all about rules on speech and all..

Politics and News
A forum for more serious discussions of politics and current events. Passions are always high on all sides of these subjects so keep your posts on topic. PERSONAL FLAMES WILL NOT BE TOLERATED.
 

UberNeuman

Lifer
Nov 4, 1999
16,937
3,087
126
This is from the top of the front page, see that last part since you're all about rules on speech and all..

Politics and News
A forum for more serious discussions of politics and current events. Passions are always high on all sides of these subjects so keep your posts on topic. PERSONAL FLAMES WILL NOT BE TOLERATED.

Again, tell me the "banned" hate speech from Germany you have..... issues with.....

\and my apologies to half-wits.... at least they have some wit....
 
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Oric

Senior member
Oct 11, 1999
964
101
106
Nation states have a right to do this. The world is not one big village.
 

UglyCasanova

Lifer
Mar 25, 2001
19,275
1,361
126
Any of it. I have issues with a government telling its citizens what the are allowed to think or say unless it poses a real clear and present danger to someone else (not just a generalized one to no one in particular). The ability for the government to abuse this is too great. Any notion of a thought police is abhorrent.
 

UglyCasanova

Lifer
Mar 25, 2001
19,275
1,361
126
Nation states have a right to do this. The world is not one big village.


They can do anything they want, it doesn't make it right. And what's wonderful is I'm allowed to have this arguement, something I'm allowed to do both here and in Germany. Questioning the governments decision to quell certain speech in a place like China is a big no-no and I'd likely find myself getting a healthy dose of re-education.
 

Oric

Senior member
Oct 11, 1999
964
101
106
In an age of online propaganda and truth-bending, it is almost impossible to distinguish the voice of the citizens from the works of the fourth arm of rivaling nations.
 

UglyCasanova

Lifer
Mar 25, 2001
19,275
1,361
126
In an age of online propaganda and truth-bending, it is almost impossible to distinguish the voice of the citizens from the works of the fourth arm of rivaling nations.


I don't disagree but thats also very off topic and certainly not a reason to cede control of allowable thoughts to our political overlords.
 

Oric

Senior member
Oct 11, 1999
964
101
106
Yes, but that is the reason why Germany etc. are trying to bring an order and control to mass social media. If it were solely the ME nations doing this, i would be 100% on your side, but European states doing it ? That deserves deeper probing into the why? question.
 

greatnoob

Senior member
Jan 6, 2014
968
395
136
Conflating hate speech as free speech and then arguing that banning hate speech (or as you call it "free speech") is something we should be concerned about makes you look really stupid.
 
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UglyCasanova

Lifer
Mar 25, 2001
19,275
1,361
126
Conflating hate speech as free speech and then arguing that banning hate speech (or as you call it "free speech") is something we should be concerned about makes you look really stupid.


Explain the difference between hate speech and free speech
 

UglyCasanova

Lifer
Mar 25, 2001
19,275
1,361
126
no, sir. You have not. What is hate speech?

An ignorant concept. The definition is very subjective so nearly impossible to make a rule for. And according to the SC it's free speech here in the U.s.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-mayor-says-hes-wrong/?utm_term=.b2452479604d

The Supreme Court has repeatedly ruled that hate speech, no matter how bigoted or offensive, is free speech.

The high court did so in 1969, when it found that a state law banning public speech that advocates for illegal activities violated the constitutional rights of a Ku Klux Klan leader.

It did so again in 1992, when the justices found that a city ordinance prohibiting the display of symbols that arouse anger toward someone based on race, religion and other factors is unconstitutional.

And again in 2011, when the court ruled in favor of church members who picketed and carried signs with homophobic slurs at a soldier's funeral.