Germany tells social media companies to delete hate speech or face fines

UglyCasanova

Lifer
Mar 25, 2001
19,275
1,361
126
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/30/business/germany-facebook-google-twitter.html?_r=0


The thought police are making progress. Quite the powerful position to get to decide what constitutes extremist and what doesn't.



BERLIN — Social media companies operating in Germany face fines of as much as $57 million if they do not delete illegal, racist or slanderous comments and posts within 24 hours under a law passed on Friday.

The law reinforces Germany’s position as one of the most aggressive countries in the Western world at forcing companies like Facebook, Google and Twitter to crack down on hate speech and other extremist messaging on their digital platforms.

But the new rules have also raised questions about freedom of expression. Digital and human rights groups, as well as the companies themselves, opposed the law on the grounds that it placed limits on individuals’ right to free expression. Critics also said the legislation shifted the burden of responsibility to the providers from the courts, leading to last-minute changes in its wording.

Technology companies and free speech advocates argue that there is a fine line between policy makers’ views on hate speech and what is considered legitimate freedom of expression, and social networks say they do not want to be forced to censor those who use their services. Silicon Valley companies also deny that they are failing to meet countries’ demands to remove suspected hate speech online.
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
26,152
15,575
136
I am torn on the issue. I mean f* hatespeakers but goddamn.. thought police.. I hate hatespeakers with a vengence.. but thought police man. goddamn.
 
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UglyCasanova

Lifer
Mar 25, 2001
19,275
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What is there to be torn about? Is it a good thing for certain people to be able to control thought and expressions of everyone else?

All it takes is the government spinning dissonance as hate speech and all of the sudden democracy is dead and youre living in a legitimately fascist country.
 

UglyCasanova

Lifer
Mar 25, 2001
19,275
1,361
126
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/20/...ed-of-hateful-postings-over-social-media.html

About a week ago:

BERLIN — In a coordinated campaign across 14 states, the German police on Tuesday raided the homes of 36 people accused of hateful postings over social media, including threats, coercion and incitement to racism.

Most of the raids concerned politically motivated right-wing incitement, according to the Federal Criminal Police Office, whose officers conducted home searches and interrogations. But the raids also targeted two people accused of left-wing extremist content, as well as one person accused of making threats or harassment based on someone’s sexual orientation.

“The still high incidence of punishable hate posting shows a need for police action,” Holger Münch, president of the Federal Criminal Police Office, said in a statement. “Our free society must not allow a climate of fear, threat, criminal violence and violence either on the street or on the internet.”

The raids come as Germans are debating the draft of a new social media law aimed at cracking down on hate speech, a measure that an array of experts said was unconstitutional at a parliamentary hearing on Monday.


Glory be the day when the government gets to decide you've had a bit too much to say..

police_germany.jpg
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
26,152
15,575
136
What is there to be torn about? Is it a good thing for certain people to be able to control thought and expressions of everyone else?

All it takes is the government spinning dissonance as hate speech and all of the sudden democracy is dead and youre living in a legitimately fascist country.

There is levels of freedom and free speech, its not an ultimate construct that automatically solves all problems. It is a finely balanced equation;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance
There will always be a percentage of the population that seeks to use the very freedom they have to decrease freedom for others. That is what is going on here and Germany is nipping it in the butt before it grows out of control (like it has maybe in the states?)
 

UglyCasanova

Lifer
Mar 25, 2001
19,275
1,361
126
There's no paradox. Censorship inhibits growth because people aren't free to discuss the issues, the government is free to (try to) keep the status quo if it chooses. Letting a group of people decide the narrative and what is or isn't acceptable to think should be a nightmare to a board as supposedly progressive as this one, crazy that some even remotely try and defend it.
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
26,152
15,575
136
There's no paradox. Censorship inhibits growth because people aren't free to discuss the issues, the government is free to (try to) keep the status quo if it chooses. Letting a group of people decide the narrative and what is or isn't acceptable to think should be a nightmare to a board as supposedly progressive as this one, crazy that some even remotely try and defend it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hizb_ut-Tahrir

Whats your stance on these guys? Europe got the right idea about tolerating them in the name of free speech? Cause these guys are recruiting for the likes of ISIS right in our own backyard.
 

pcgeek11

Lifer
Jun 12, 2005
22,343
4,973
136
There is levels of freedom and free speech, its not an ultimate construct that automatically solves all problems. It is a finely balanced equation;
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance
There will always be a percentage of the population that seeks to use the very freedom they have to decrease freedom for others. That is what is going on here and Germany is nipping it in the butt before it grows out of control (like it has maybe in the states?)

This is not going to be good at all. What is and is not acceptable is defined by whom is in charge.
 

UglyCasanova

Lifer
Mar 25, 2001
19,275
1,361
126
I think they are a bunch of murderous assholes that aren't compatible with a free society:

Hizb ut-Tahrir political doctrine has been said to be founded on two principles:

  1. the need for Islamic law, or shariah to regulate all aspects of human life — politics, economics, sciences, and ethics;
  2. an authentic "Islamic state", to enforce that law.[61]

Beyond that my stance doesn't change.
 

alien42

Lifer
Nov 28, 2004
12,866
3,297
136
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/30/business/germany-facebook-google-twitter.html?_r=0


The thought police are making progress. Quite the powerful position to get to decide what constitutes extremist and what doesn't.



BERLIN — Social media companies operating in Germany face fines of as much as $57 million if they do not delete illegal, racist or slanderous comments and posts within 24 hours under a law passed on Friday.

The law reinforces Germany’s position as one of the most aggressive countries in the Western world at forcing companies like Facebook, Google and Twitter to crack down on hate speech and other extremist messaging on their digital platforms.

But the new rules have also raised questions about freedom of expression. Digital and human rights groups, as well as the companies themselves, opposed the law on the grounds that it placed limits on individuals’ right to free expression. Critics also said the legislation shifted the burden of responsibility to the providers from the courts, leading to last-minute changes in its wording.

Technology companies and free speech advocates argue that there is a fine line between policy makers’ views on hate speech and what is considered legitimate freedom of expression, and social networks say they do not want to be forced to censor those who use their services. Silicon Valley companies also deny that they are failing to meet countries’ demands to remove suspected hate speech online.

if you aren't German, you should probably STFU.
 

UglyCasanova

Lifer
Mar 25, 2001
19,275
1,361
126
I think there is a difference between recruiting terrorist and free speech...


Very little imo.

If the government is going to prosecute someone over speech the threat had better be very real, imminent, and not just a vague political message but actually encouraging to commit a specific crime. Otherwise Big Brother is free to shut down whomever it deems as a "terrorist" or "extremist", and that certainly can and will be abused.
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
26,152
15,575
136
I think there is a difference between recruiting terrorist and free speech...

On the surface Hizb_ut-Tahrir "just" wants a chaliphate and sharia law and uses their democratic rights to promote this agenda(thus the paradox of tolerance). Beneath the surface more than one Imam have been found to push radicalisation and promote the likes of ISIS (within the mosque).
Now number 1 is legitimate, I may not like it, but hey if you choose to ram your freedom up your butt thats your choice to make.
Number 2 on the other hand is not legitimate and should be prosecuted. IF you can proove it.
This is where the waters get muddy cause how are you going to get that proof? So some countries ban the organisation all together, cause over all, hate speech.

Point here being : muddy waters. Hence im torn.

Edit : I read this in the news some time back, some bloke in GB stating that if a little terrorism is the price for freedom then so be it. - Ok, thats an educated weighted stance I can respect.
 

alien42

Lifer
Nov 28, 2004
12,866
3,297
136
Why? Is it not ok to talk about politics around the globe?

you are completely ignoring Germany's history.

are you aware that all Nazi symbols and paraphernalia have been illegal in Germany for decades?

i doubt it because you are completely unable to take history and context into consideration.
 

UglyCasanova

Lifer
Mar 25, 2001
19,275
1,361
126
you are completely ignoring Germany's history.

are you aware that all Nazi symbols and paraphernalia have been illegal in Germany for decades?

i doubt it because you are completely unable to take history and context into consideration.


Nah what happened in Germany I'm clueless. Given Germany's history they should be very acutely aware of the risks with having a central power dictate the acceptability of speech.
 

UglyCasanova

Lifer
Mar 25, 2001
19,275
1,361
126
I'm supporting speech period, attaching the word "hate" to it is just a way for you to justify censoring an opinion you disagree with. One man's hate speech is another's protest is another's humor.
 
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alien42

Lifer
Nov 28, 2004
12,866
3,297
136
Your stance is obvious considering in a topic about free speech you tell someone to shut the fuck up. It is laughable.

you are no different than uglycasanova, absolutely unable to take history and context into account.

i still haven't voiced an opinion on the subject yet you have assigned one to me.