George Bush: The Unauthorized Biography

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BaliBabyDoc

Lifer
Jan 20, 2001
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0
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I disagree, Moonie. Our electoral process is federally-mandated but state executed. The state of FL did a horrible job but Gore was not a champion of voter rights. He should have proposed a full recount of the entire state (by hand) not cherry-picking Dade, Broward, etc. The US Supreme Court's intervention was necessary b/c the process was unraveling. Their solution can be defended on the grounds that election law is federal law but their decision in no way defended the principles embodied by the Constitution.

In a rational and fair society, we would have made it a "do-over". Reprint the ballots and do it again while allowing polling place registration with all votes considered valid until two methods confirm a person is ineligible. After a day of voting all ballots are counted by hand on-site with candidate-approved monitors observing and then shipped to the capital where Sec. of State Katherine Harris would proclaim Gore the winner. I am not a Gore fan but I do not see how any impartial observer could claim a plurality of FL citizens went to the polls to vote for Bush.
 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
9,993
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Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
I disagree, Moonie. Our electoral process is federally-mandated but state executed. The state of FL did a horrible job but Gore was not a champion of voter rights. He should have proposed a full recount of the entire state (by hand) not cherry-picking Dade, Broward, etc. The US Supreme Court's intervention was necessary b/c the process was unraveling. Their solution can be defended on the grounds that election law is federal law but their decision in no way defended the principles embodied by the Constitution.

In a rational and fair society, we would have made it a "do-over". Reprint the ballots and do it again while allowing polling place registration with all votes considered valid until two methods confirm a person is ineligible. After a day of voting all ballots are counted by hand on-site with candidate-approved monitors observing and then shipped to the capital where Sec. of State Katherine Harris would proclaim Gore the winner. I am not a Gore fan but I do not see how any impartial observer could claim a plurality of FL citizens went to the polls to vote for Bush.


The electoral process (the college)is federal but, not the election process.. that is state law and each state has a differen't law. The USSC took the cert on 14th ammendment violation of 'equal'. The state law said he had choose x, or y or z as the method to contest and recount. (Harris refused to accept the late delivery of recount votes which gave an edge to Gore) Gore was stymied by the state law and the time allowed to get a recount. Every element went against Gore. There was at least 13000 cases of 15th ammendment and VRA violations. See USCCR .

I could just see Barbara tugging on Jeb's ear if he allowed what you suggest to occur... "George do something with this idiot son of yours... Georgie.. ah poor thing... come here son.. here have a drink.."
 

BaliBabyDoc

Lifer
Jan 20, 2001
10,737
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Oh I do not dispute that Gore (and many FL voters) got a raw deal but that's the way the cookie crumbles. If Bush spent less money on consultants trying to make him look manly and more on voter education/registration drives he would have won (decidedly). Katherine Harris used her discretion to help her buddy win . . . it was legal and deplorable . . . welcome to America; beacon of justice and freedom.

Considering Gore proposed even greater defense spending (in year 1) and much greater spending on a variety of domestic programs than Bush . . . I'm not convinced we lost in the deal. Of course, Imperial Lord Ashcroft would be in MO oppressing peoples' rights instead of the whole country.
 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
9,993
1
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Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
Oh I do not dispute that Gore (and many FL voters) got a raw deal but that's the way the cookie crumbles. If Bush spent less money on consultants trying to make him look manly and more on voter education/registration drives he would have won (decidedly). Katherine Harris used her discretion to help her buddy win . . . it was legal and deplorable . . . welcome to America; beacon of justice and freedom.

Considering Gore proposed even greater defense spending (in year 1) and much greater spending on a variety of domestic programs than Bush . . . I'm not convinced we lost in the deal. Of course, Imperial Lord Ashcroft would be in MO oppressing peoples' rights instead of the whole country.

I agree with all but the legal part.. USCCR quote

CONCLUSION

A wide variety of concerns have been raised regarding the use and effectiveness of Florida?s voting system controls during the 2000 presidential election. Many Floridians were denied their opportunity to vote, in what proved to be a historic general election because of the narrow vote margin separating the candidates. Some voters were turned away from their designated polling places because their names did not appear on the lists of registered voters. Other voters discovered that their precincts were no longer being used or had moved to another location, without notice from the supervisor of elections office. In other instances, voters who had been standing in line to vote at their precincts prior to closing, were told that they could not vote because the poll was closed. In addition, thousands of voters who had registered at motor vehicle licensing offices were not on the rolls when they came to vote. The Commission also heard from several voters who saw Florida Highway Patrol troopers in and around polling places, while other troopers conducted an unauthorized vehicle checkpoint within a few miles of a polling place in a predominantly African American neighborhood.
The Commission?s investigation demonstrated an urgent need for attention to this issue by
Florida?s state and local officials, particularly as it relates to the implementation of statewide election reforms. Without some effective redress, the pervasive problems that surfaced in the 2000 election will be repeated.



:beer:
 

BaliBabyDoc

Lifer
Jan 20, 2001
10,737
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I hate to be lumped with the Bush Leaguers but some of that is coincidence and some is incompetence . . . neither of which is illegal . . . which is a good thing considering the pandemic of incompetence in America. I do believe Sec. of State Harris and Guv Jeb were aware of how their voter registration "housekeeping" would affect the outcome but that doesn't make their activity illegal . . . just sad.
 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
9,993
1
76
Originally posted by: BaliBabyDoc
I hate to be lumped with the Bush Leaguers but some of that is coincidence and some is incompetence . . . neither of which is illegal . . . which is a good thing considering the pandemic of incompetence in America. I do believe Sec. of State Harris and Guv Jeb were aware of how their voter registration "housekeeping" would affect the outcome but that doesn't make their activity illegal . . . just sad.

BBD,
Not trying to nitpic but,
VRA does not need conspiracy to be a violation. I'll get the cite and edit later. Fla. did not do the job and that violated the VRA.. back in a moment.

" In our investigation, we use as our standard the requirements of Section 2 of the Voting Rights Act for determining whether disparate impact or disparate treatment amounting to disenfranchisement has occurred. We understand clearly that violations of the Voting Rights Act do not require proof of deliberate or intentional discrimination against citizens, if differential results, disenfranchising those who the statute was designed to protect are the result. Practices can be illegal when they have the effect of restricting opportunities for people of color, language minorities, persons with disabilities, and the elderly to participate fully in the political process and to elect candidates of their choice. "

2001 PRESS RELEASES, ADVISORIES AND PUBLIC AFFAIRS
U.S. COMMISSION ON CIVIL RIGHTS CONCLUDES THAT ?NO COUNT? IS REAL ISSUE IN FLORIDA VOTE
Voter Disenfranchisement is at the Heart of the Issue
WASHINGTON, DC, MARCH 9 - Supported by approximately 30 hours of sworn testimony from some 100 witnesses, the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights determined that the Florida presidential elections appear to have been marred by voter disenfranchisement.

"It is not a question of a recount or even an accurate count, but more pointedly those whose exclusion from the right to vote amounted to a 'No Count,'" concluded a statement issued today by the Commission. The preliminary assessment was released in a rare departure from the Commission's more deliberative procedures. Commission Chair Mary Frances Berry said she hopes the Commission's findings will hasten reforms.

"In the final analysis," the statement said, "new recounts of old ballots are an academic exercise. Voting is the language of our democracy and, regrettably - when it mattered most - real people lost real opportunities to speak truth to power in the ballot box. This must never occur again.

"Voting technology reforms and the conclusion of recounting procedures alone are insufficient to address the significant and distressing issues and barriers that prevented qualified electors to cast ballots and have their ballots counted. It is our hope that Florida, as well as other jurisdictions, would promptly address these major problems instead of hoping that with the passage of time, the public will forget," the statement continued.

The Commission released the statement at its regular March meeting. It maintained that the evidence points to an array of problems. These ranged from Florida election officials' failure to provide adequate resources to handle increased voter turnout to at least one unauthorized law enforcement checkpoint. The Commission also flagged the removal of non-felons from the voter registration rolls on the basis of unreliable information collected during a sweeping, state-sponsored felony purge.

The Commission cited other problems in Florida which prevented voters from exercising their franchise, including the assignment of many African Americans to polling sites that lacked sufficient resources to confirm voter eligibility; failure to process voter registration applications under the "motor voter" law in a timely manner; use of defective and complicated ballots that caused many "overvotes" and "undervotes"; early closing of polling places; relocation of polling places without notice; use of old and defective election equipment in poor precincts; failure to provide requested language assistance to Haitian American and Latino American voters; and failure to ensure access for voters with disabilities.

The Commission also found that the state failed to provide adequate training to its poll workers and committed inadequate funds to voter education.

The Commission plans to release a draft report on the Florida voting probe by early April and the final report in early June.

By a unanimous vote, the Commission decided to return to Florida late this summer after the state legislative session, in order to assess what changes have taken place at the sate and local level. This vote follows a March 8 letter from Chairperson Berry to Governor Jeb Bush that expressed her disappointment with his statement of priorities to the Florida legislature in which he emphasized voting technology reforms and not the additional barriers that prevented qualified voters from participating in the election.

The Commission also discussed a survey today reviewing election procedures nationwide, including all 50 states and the District of Columbia. That review was aided by State Advisory Committees and the Commission's regional representatives.

03/09/01


"It is not a question of a recount or even an accurate count, but more pointedly those whose exclusion from the right to vote amounted to a 'No Count,
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
74,935
6,794
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Bali, there is one simple fact. You will an election by getting the most votes and you know who got the most by counting. Everyone who came up with anything other than counting the votes subverted the will of the people. The Supreme Coup was last in line to subvert the will of the people. And on top of it all the selected the guy that lost. The legitimate government of the United States was overthrown. It doesn't surprise me that few have a tolerance for that the truth. It's so much easier to not to rock the boat.