Genocide in Congo is allowed to continue

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: manowar821

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: ayabe
China runs the show there and they won't allow us to intervene via the UN.

Our only other option is to just send in the Marines, unfortunately we don't have any to send.

Well, also consider that Americans aren't interested in helping Africa. Let them rot.

what

Let Africa implode. Just liberate the nukes from SA before it goes down in the chaos.

Can we apply this logic to the Middle East?

No, we have an obligation to Israel to ensure it's safety and dominance in the region.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: teclis1023

Originally posted by: blackangst1
Why must "progress" include completely getting along and singing kumbaya with others whom we disagree? Read about the Tower of Babel. Although we are the same species, we are not the same. Nor will we be. Nor should we be.

If you or others believe it's even remotely possible, you have FAR more faith in mankind than I do.

But I guess we all have our opinions.

I think you need to re-read the story of the Tower of Babel - it's a story of massive triumph for the human people - they came together to achieve something so fantastic that it threatened the divine. According to the story, human difference isn't innate - it was imposed upon us by the divine, and is largely based in linguistic disparity.

And I'm not sure who's talking about singing Kumbaya. I think we're actually talking about stopping women from being gang-raped and then brutally murdered. A bit of a difference there. I am not out to be the World Police, but as a strong nation we need to defend those who can't defend themselves, no matter who they are.

Including Iraqi's?

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: teclis1023
And I'm not sure who's talking about singing Kumbaya. I think we're actually talking about stopping women from being gang-raped and then brutally murdered. A bit of a difference there. I am not out to be the World Police, but as a strong nation we need to defend those who can't defend themselves, no matter who they are.

Then the rapists will hate us, and drive their children into suicide bombings cause we leave them no choice. We can?t have that, we?ve gotta have peace talks and set up concessions, etc ?you can only rape/kill 5 this week?.

Then, if we were to seize control to protect those who can?t defend themselves, the UN would condemn us as imperialists.

 

[teclis1023]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: teclis1023
And I'm not sure who's talking about singing Kumbaya. I think we're actually talking about stopping women from being gang-raped and then brutally murdered. A bit of a difference there. I am not out to be the World Police, but as a strong nation we need to defend those who can't defend themselves, no matter who they are.

Then the rapists will hate us, and drive their children into suicide bombings cause we leave them no choice. We can?t have that, we?ve gotta have peace talks and set up concessions, etc ?you can only rape/kill 5 this week?.

Then, if we were to seize control to protect those who can?t defend themselves, the UN would condemn us as imperialists.

Very true, as I expressed before. It's a "damned if we do, damned if we don't" scenario, but I'd much rather be on the side of "at least we stopped thousands of women from being murdered".

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: Nebor
Let Africa implode. Just liberate the nukes from SA before it goes down in the chaos.

Can we apply this logic to the Middle East?

No, we have an obligation to Israel to ensure it's safety and dominance in the region.

I was thinking of Iraq, Afghanistan, and Pakistan. Israel did not come to mind. Of course, if we left Israel alone instead of condemning it for self defense, that would probably result in a positive outcome too.

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: Nebor
Let Africa implode. Just liberate the nukes from SA before it goes down in the chaos.

Can we apply this logic to the Middle East?

No, we have an obligation to Israel to ensure it's safety and dominance in the region.

I was thinking of Iraq, Afghanistan, and Pakistan. Israel did not come to mind. Of course, if we left Israel alone instead of condemning it for self defense, that would probably result in a positive outcome too.

I agree completely. Let Israel sort things out as they see fit, just provide them with the money and weapons they need to get the job done, and let Allah sort them all out when it's over.

 

[chucky2]

Originally posted by: teclis1023

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: teclis1023
And I'm not sure who's talking about singing Kumbaya. I think we're actually talking about stopping women from being gang-raped and then brutally murdered. A bit of a difference there. I am not out to be the World Police, but as a strong nation we need to defend those who can't defend themselves, no matter who they are.

Then the rapists will hate us, and drive their children into suicide bombings cause we leave them no choice. We can?t have that, we?ve gotta have peace talks and set up concessions, etc ?you can only rape/kill 5 this week?.

Then, if we were to seize control to protect those who can?t defend themselves, the UN would condemn us as imperialists.

Very true, as I expressed before. It's a "damned if we do, damned if we don't" scenario, but I'd much rather be on the side of "at least we stopped thousands of women from being murdered".

That's imperialistic though, we'd be going where the government there hadn't invited us...very bad when you talk to the UN/UN Lovers/US Bashers.

The UN (minus the US, since we're so evil) is going to take care of the suffering in Sudan, so every death in Sudan because of this genocide is on all these UN/UN Lovers/US Bashers...what's good for the goose is good for the gander (if the US is blamed for all the Iraqi deaths, then the "rest of the worlds" inaction is blamed for the continuing genocide).

Chuck

 

[Nitemare]

Hasn't the UN already pulled out and washed their hands of Africa?

 

[CanOWorms]

Yet another African genocide orchestrated or started by European policies. If you want real changes, you need to look at the source - Europe. Or you can just ignore it and let those deemed "undesirables" by maniacs to die.

 

[Nitemare]

Originally posted by: CanOWorms
Yet another African genocide orchestrated or started by European policies. If you want real changes, you need to look at the source - Europe. Or you can just ignore it and let those deemed "undesirables" by maniacs to die.

They will step in when De Beers profits are jeopardized.

 

[ayabe]

Originally posted by: Nebor
No, we have an obligation to Israel to ensure it's safety and dominance in the region.

No we don't.

 

[manowar821]

Originally posted by: Nitemare

Originally posted by: CanOWorms
Yet another African genocide orchestrated or started by European policies. If you want real changes, you need to look at the source - Europe. Or you can just ignore it and let those deemed "undesirables" by maniacs to die.

They will step in when De Beers profits are jeopardized.

QFT..

 

[BoberFett]

Screw Africa. We shouldn't use our military there any more than we should be in the middle east. The rest of the world needs to solve their own problems, we have enough of our own here.

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: Nebor
No, we have an obligation to Israel to ensure it's safety and dominance in the region.

No we don't.

If we don't continue to arm them with the latest in cluster bomb technology, do you have any idea what the ramifications would be? Ever since they started using cluster bombs, Palestinian children's rock throwing at Israeli tanks has declined to almost ZERO. Why? Simple preemptive strike logic: Palestinian kids generally don't have all their arms and legs anymore.

Israel is as important to me as New Hampshire, it's part of us, part of our culture. The Israelites are our people as sure as we are theirs.

 

[conehead433]

All they need to do to get our help is to discover vast oil fields.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: conehead433
All they need to do to get our help is to discover vast oil fields.

They already have. Quite large actually http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oil_fields

 

[ericlp]

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: ayabe
China runs the show there and they won't allow us to intervene via the UN.

Our only other option is to just send in the Marines, unfortunately we don't have any to send.

Well, also consider that Americans aren't interested in helping Africa. Let them rot.

If only they had oil, then we might be interested.

 

[lupi]

Originally posted by: ericlp

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: ayabe
China runs the show there and they won't allow us to intervene via the UN.

Our only other option is to just send in the Marines, unfortunately we don't have any to send.

Well, also consider that Americans aren't interested in helping Africa. Let them rot.

If only they had oil, then we might be interested.

Woot, not only a necro but also an ignorant and incorrect one.

 

[Atreus21]

This is a horrible topic for me to bring this up in, but I can't help but wonder.

Suppose we did intervene in Congo. If the conflict took five years and thousands of American lives, would the peace activists be protesting an "unjust war?" After all, Congo never did anything to us.

 

[Atreus21]

Originally posted by: chucky2
Look, the "rest of the world" thinks the US is 'imperialistic', that we 'oppress' the rest of the world with our views, that we 'cram' them down the "rest of the worlds" throats.

The US should be making nightly news showing the suffering in Sudan and blaming it solely on the UN's (minus the US, since we're such sh1tty people) lack of any effort there.

The last I'd looked, the F'ing UN - which means the rest of the world - couldn't come up with 24 helicopters.

Which means, in reality, the "rest of the world" is a bunch of people who talk about action, but pssy out when it actually comes to getting it done. They like to whine and b1tch about "imperialistic" US, but when it comes down to it, they don't do sh1t themselves.

Darfur is the "rest of the worlds" mirror, funny how the US bashers won't look in it...

Chuck

Ladies and gentlemen, I present....

A man with a clue.

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: Atreus21
This is a horrible topic for me to bring this up in, but I can't help but wonder.

Suppose we did intervene in Congo. If the conflict took five years and thousands of American lives, would the peace activists be protesting an "unjust war?" After all, Congo never did anything to us.

Who knows. I am not even sure anybody would know where to start. I think that stabilizing regions full of boy soldiers would make Iraq look like a cake walk. These countries have no inherent wealth, no education, no infrastructure, they have nothing. Where to begin? As I mentioned earlier in the thread, some of what these fighters do would make a beheading super-crazy terrorist look sane by comparison.

 

[Atreus21]

Originally posted by: Skoorb

Originally posted by: Atreus21
This is a horrible topic for me to bring this up in, but I can't help but wonder.

Suppose we did intervene in Congo. If the conflict took five years and thousands of American lives, would the peace activists be protesting an "unjust war?" After all, Congo never did anything to us.

Who knows. I am not even sure anybody would know where to start. I think that stabilizing regions full of boy soldiers would make Iraq look like a cake walk. These countries have no inherent wealth, no education, no infrastructure, they have nothing. Where to begin? As I mentioned earlier in the thread, some of what these fighters do would make a beheading super-crazy terrorist look sane by comparison.

I agree. We covered a subject like this in my macroeconomics class. From an economic standpoint, you can't simply walk in and establish a market environment. At the most basic level, there's no private property rights, and no ability for the government for enforce them. Corruption and bribery are ways of life for the politicians.

So what do you do? Roll in and completely lock down the country for the 100 years it takes to remake the underlying infrastructure into one that can sustain itself?

Frankly, that seems like the only lasting solution. Either you conquer the place, or you half-ass it. Otherwise, they'll just revert to the chaos and violence they've been using.

 

[BladeVenom]

Originally posted by: Atreus21
This is a horrible topic for me to bring this up in, but I can't help but wonder.

Suppose we did intervene in Congo. If the conflict took five years and thousands of American lives, would the peace activists be protesting an "unjust war?" After all, Congo never did anything to us.

The people saying we should do something are the people who will be the first ones to complain if we actual do.

 

[tk149]

It's a horrible situation. But to those who believe foreign intervention (i.e. sending U.S. troops there) is the answer, can you provide any examples where foreign intervention has worked in a situation like this? I can't think of any modern successes.

Sadly, I think the only real answer is education and a strong government BY the people being governed. Both of those take time, and won't help in the short-term.

My GF is always saying stuff like "Why won't someone do something?" Then I ask her, "What are YOU doing and what if your daughter wants to join the military and go over to help?" Then she admits that she's not doing anything and there's no way in heck that she'll let her daughter join the troops. Then I give her grief for being a hypocrite.

 

[CitizenKain]

Originally posted by: Nebor

Originally posted by: ayabe

Originally posted by: Nebor
No, we have an obligation to Israel to ensure it's safety and dominance in the region.

No we don't.

If we don't continue to arm them with the latest in cluster bomb technology, do you have any idea what the ramifications would be? Ever since they started using cluster bombs, Palestinian children's rock throwing at Israeli tanks has declined to almost ZERO. Why? Simple preemptive strike logic: Palestinian kids generally don't have all their arms and legs anymore.

Israel is as important to me as New Hampshire, it's part of us, part of our culture. The Israelites are our people as sure as we are theirs.

What makes Palestinian kids worth less then Israeli? If Israel is so important to you, move your ass over there and go shoot someone.