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General VR discussion thread

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Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,584
345
126
Does anyone know how Samsung Odyssey and PSVR compare for image quality and comfort with eyeglasses? They're both ~$200 options now. Odyssey has the advantage on titles, PSVR on ease of installation?
 

GodisanAtheist

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2006
3,058
1,548
136
It'd be a fun little business, but seems risky, between the public's tastes/the market for paying for this, how much a fad it is that could easily go away, mall rents and declining visitors... remember arcades? Even the word seems obsolete. Even those restaurant/bar arcade games seem obsolete? (We won't even talk about pinballs, a word getting a spell check error in this post)
-The younger crowd seems more open to the idea of going out for an experience. Throw in some alcohol as social lubricant and hey you may have a stew going.

A VR Pub might be just the ticket: some booze, some chow, and some VR. One stop entertainment shop.
 

DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator and Elite Member
Moderator
Aug 22, 2001
22,698
4,019
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Finally decided to try VR. Bought the Mrs. the Oculus Quest a couple weeks ago at best buy because she was really impressed with the demo she did. Needed one that was stand alone so she can use it herself without any real learning curve or PC required. She loves it. Beat saber sucked her right in.

Fortunately, the support for PC was added a couple days later. I bought the party link cable, c-and-p the powershell script, added dev mode, setup Steam as directed, and bam, I was playing Steam VR. Res and audio are definitely the draw backs. I use my HT setup for sound and crank it up unless it is something where the integrated is fine. I don't know if the 72Hz will cut it in more intense stuff, but Spiderman, beat saber, Creed boxing, and everything else I tried is fine. Again, except for the screen door pixels in some stuff. Or lack of HD clarity for certain media. I do not know if that is how they were shot, as this is my first VR headset. But that netflix hackerman date night short was sort of low res looking.

I am hooked. I spent 8 hrs in it yesterday. Boxed rounds, played about an hour of beat saber, demo'd a bunch of vids and games. Watched ready player one on Amazon VR as it seemed appropos.

I think I will get the index unless you guys and gals know a better model. I want the highest res, best image quality, and some sweet audio built in if possible. I need to do more research myself, but if anyone wants to help me cut to the chase, and give me low down, you have my gratitude.
 

rstrohkirch

Platinum Member
May 31, 2005
2,058
218
106
My son and wife have shown interest in getting a VR headset for xmas. Personally I was going to wait another year or two before even looking at any of these. So now I'm looking for some recommendations on a headset since I have done very little if any research into these things. I have a decent sized space in my basement to use this in and I have my old computer laying around which has a 2500k@4.3 and a gtx 970. I could upgrade the graphics card if needed. I have a feeling this is mostly going to be used by children so maybe a $400 to $800 budget for everything needed to get it running.
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
29,899
566
126
I think I will get the index unless you guys and gals know a better model. I want the highest res, best image quality, and some sweet audio built in if possible. I need to do more research myself, but if anyone wants to help me cut to the chase, and give me low down, you have my gratitude.
To be fair, the Index does have slightly worse visuals due to using an LCD panel vs. OLED panels found on the Vive and Vive Pro. However, while that does lead to worse blacks, Valve has provided significantly higher refresh rates (120Hz and 144Hz) to go along with it. I was a bit on the fence about it as I wasn't sure if the refresh rates would make up for the worse blacks, but while the black levels were brought up in reviews that I watched, reviewers tended to still favor the Index for its refresh rate.

I was also a bit wary of the built-in sound on the Index as they don't touch your ears like the Vive's DAS setup does. Although, yet again, I never really heard any bad comments about them in reviews. The only negative is that since they aren't on-ear headphones, you do get sound leakage (both going out and coming in). So, that could be a negative if your environment is somewhat loud.

I also heard tales of one guy hacking his Quest to raise the refresh rate. This caused some problems with Quest-specific games because the GPU in the Snapdragon SoC had issues keeping up, and apparently... it got quite warm. On the flip side, if you could raise the refresh rate while using Oculus Link, maybe that could provide a better experience while not severely taxing the hardware?

My son and wife have shown interest in getting a VR headset for xmas. Personally I was going to wait another year or two before even looking at any of these. So now I'm looking for some recommendations on a headset since I have done very little if any research into these things. I have a decent sized space in my basement to use this in and I have my old computer laying around which has a 2500k@4.3 and a gtx 970. I could upgrade the graphics card if needed. I have a feeling this is mostly going to be used by children so maybe a $400 to $800 budget for everything needed to get it running.
Honestly, I'm kind of leaning toward recommending the Quest. The biggest reason is that I'd recommend upgrading the GPU for any PC-based VR and possibly also upgrading the CPU. Although, it would likely only be an issue during more demanding games, and not so much the simpler games. What makes me also lean a little more toward the Quest is that you said your children would likely use it the most. If that's the case, I wonder if the portability of the Quest would be a huge positive for them? The downsides of the Quest is that it uses somewhat older hardware, and given that it's an all-in-one device, which is arguably a positive as well, it isn't as powerful as a PC-based VR setup.

Also, as noted above by @DAPUNISHER, it is possible to hook the Quest up to a PC to play games through the PC. The quality isn't as good as with a dedicated PC VR headset, but I have heard reports that it does still make a difference in some games.

However, if you really want a PC-based VR setup, the Samsung Odyssey+ was on sale during Black Friday and still might be on sale right now. It has a good panel, but it does have weaker tracking than a Vive due to using inside-out tracking, which is the same style as used on the Quest and Rift S. Inside-out tracking means it uses cameras to understand where the HMD and controllers are in 3D space, but since all cameras are on the HMD, if you move the controller out of view (e.g. behind your back), it will have to rely on the accelerometer to guess where the controller is until it's back in view.
 
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Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,584
345
126
My son and wife have shown interest in getting a VR headset for xmas. Personally I was going to wait another year or two before even looking at any of these. So now I'm looking for some recommendations on a headset since I have done very little if any research into these things.
Take a look at Samsung Odyssey?
 

CP5670

Diamond Member
Jun 24, 2004
4,820
212
106
To be fair, the Index does have slightly worse visuals due to using an LCD panel vs. OLED panels found on the Vive and Vive Pro. However, while that does lead to worse blacks, Valve has provided significantly higher refresh rates (120Hz and 144Hz) to go along with it. I was a bit on the fence about it as I wasn't sure if the refresh rates would make up for the worse blacks, but while the black levels were brought up in reviews that I watched, reviewers tended to still favor the Index for its refresh rate.
It seems a lot of the newer headsets are switching to LCD due to the higher pixel coverage. I've been reading a lot of reviews and most people seem to prefer LCD due to this, despite the worse black levels. Even with the Pimax 5K models, people are saying the LCD one is better despite being cheaper than the OLED version. (unlike regular desktop gaming, where OLED is clearly superior)

The Index seems to be the best overall package right now, but is definitely eclipsed by other headsets in some areas like resolution/clarity. It's also hard to come by and is only sold directly by Valve, and is often backordered there.
 
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DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator and Elite Member
Moderator
Aug 22, 2001
22,698
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To be fair, the Index does have slightly worse visuals due to using an LCD panel vs. OLED panels found on the Vive and Vive Pro. However, while that does lead to worse blacks, Valve has provided significantly higher refresh rates (120Hz and 144Hz) to go along with it. I was a bit on the fence about it as I wasn't sure if the refresh rates would make up for the worse blacks, but while the black levels were brought up in reviews that I watched, reviewers tended to still favor the Index for its refresh rate.

I was also a bit wary of the built-in sound on the Index as they don't touch your ears like the Vive's DAS setup does. Although, yet again, I never really heard any bad comments about them in reviews. The only negative is that since they aren't on-ear headphones, you do get sound leakage (both going out and coming in). So, that could be a negative if your environment is somewhat loud.

I also heard tales of one guy hacking his Quest to raise the refresh rate. This caused some problems with Quest-specific games because the GPU in the Snapdragon SoC had issues keeping up, and apparently... it got quite warm. On the flip side, if you could raise the refresh rate while using Oculus Link, maybe that could provide a better experience while not severely taxing the hardware?



Honestly, I'm kind of leaning toward recommending the Quest. The biggest reason is that I'd recommend upgrading the GPU for any PC-based VR and possibly also upgrading the CPU. Although, it would likely only be an issue during more demanding games, and not so much the simpler games. What makes me also lean a little more toward the Quest is that you said your children would likely use it the most. If that's the case, I wonder if the portability of the Quest would be a huge positive for them? The downsides of the Quest is that it uses somewhat older hardware, and given that it's an all-in-one device, which is arguably a positive as well, it isn't as powerful as a PC-based VR setup.

Also, as noted above by @DAPUNISHER, it is possible to hook the Quest up to a PC to play games through the PC. The quality isn't as good as with a dedicated PC VR headset, but I have heard reports that it does still make a difference in some games.

However, if you really want a PC-based VR setup, the Samsung Odyssey+ was on sale during Black Friday and still might be on sale right now. It has a good panel, but it does have weaker tracking than a Vive due to using inside-out tracking, which is the same style as used on the Quest and Rift S. Inside-out tracking means it uses cameras to understand where the HMD and controllers are in 3D space, but since all cameras are on the HMD, if you move the controller out of view (e.g. behind your back), it will have to rely on the accelerometer to guess where the controller is until it's back in view.
Thanks for the detailed response.

I will have to look at what it states again, but when using the link, it does state something about using SS and some other features thanks to the PC hardware. As to the refresh, I should think 80 is doable at least.

Regarding his family: It is nice to be able to use the quest stand alone, but then use the party link to access steam and use my PC on the big screen in my virtual house. As a gateway to VR, we are certainly enjoying it. And I can therefore recommend it. Facebook has a big library, some good exclusives, and is investing more in development of VR than most.

It seems a lot of the newer headsets are switching to LCD due to the higher pixel coverage. I've been reading a lot of reviews and most people seem to prefer LCD due to this, despite the worse black levels. Even with the Pimax 5K models, people are saying the LCD one is better despite being cheaper than the OLED version. (unlike regular desktop gaming, where OLED is clearly superior)

The Index seems to be the best overall package right now, but is definitely eclipsed by other headsets in some areas like resolution/clarity. It's also hard to come by and is only sold directly by Valve, and is often backordered there.
It does seem like the high end is the toughest one to pull the trigger on. I am leaning toward getting the rift s for now. $350 at Best Buy right now. Watched some reviews and seems like with the addition of some aftermarkets clip on headphones and a good pc, it is a great value. Given most of us have the PC already. Linus said it made him want to play his index more. But given it is less than half the money, he would be happy with it if that were what he was spending. The oasis dude, convinced me it will be good enough, with the pros and cons he covered. He provides solutions to some of the cons too. And it is similar enough to the Quest that I do not have to go through another learning curve so soon.

It should hold me over until we see what shakes out in the next few months. I am hoping the next gen drops, and there are solutions that check every box. If I can avoid setting up sensors that would be great. Because so far, the inside out tracking is fine. I can quickly change the guardian from standing or sitting, to a play area that I draw out. And many user reviews lament the woes of setting them up and getting them properly tweaked.
 

GodisanAtheist

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2006
3,058
1,548
136
This might be a staggeringly stupid set of questions, but are VR headsets any use outside of actual VR? I might belie how little I understand the tech with these:

Can I use a VR headset as a glorified monitor or use it with non-VR ready games to get a sort of pseudo 3D effect (thinking playing RTS games with some 3d going on would be an absolute blast, like miniatures).

Can VR headsets be used as a "dual monitor" set-up, where I have some netflix playing to one eye and a website or game going to the other eye?

I can see paying $500 for just the headset at first if it can double as a high quality monitor(s) first, then add on all the little VR bits over time rather than put down $1K upfront.
 
Feb 4, 2009
29,817
10,357
136
This might be a staggeringly stupid set of questions, but are VR headsets any use outside of actual VR? I might belie how little I understand the tech with these:

Can I use a VR headset as a glorified monitor or use it with non-VR ready games to get a sort of pseudo 3D effect (thinking playing RTS games with some 3d going on would be an absolute blast, like miniatures).

Can VR headsets be used as a "dual monitor" set-up, where I have some netflix playing to one eye and a website or game going to the other eye?

I can see paying $500 for just the headset at first if it can double as a high quality monitor(s) first, then add on all the little VR bits over time rather than put down $1K upfront.
No expert and I hate the idea of strapping them to my face.
That said I am 99% confident at least the oculus can be used as a “giant” tv screen.
 

Aikouka

Lifer
Nov 27, 2001
29,899
566
126
It should hold me over until we see what shakes out in the next few months. I am hoping the next gen drops, and there are solutions that check every box. If I can avoid setting up sensors that would be great. Because so far, the inside out tracking is fine. I can quickly change the guardian from standing or sitting, to a play area that I draw out. And many user reviews lament the woes of setting them up and getting them properly tweaked.
I get the feeling that we'll almost always have a schism in the VR ecosystem where there will be the simpler inside-out systems and the fancier sensor-based systems. The most important thing is that the prior need to be good enough to compete with the latter, but the latter will always have the best tracking due to no real dead spots.

Honestly, I'm mostly hoping that we see a Quest refresh at the end of 2020 or early 2021. I do prefer PC-based VR for the best experience, but I think the Quest really lowers the barrier of entry for the average person... and it's also just really easy to use. All I'd really like to see with a refresh is... faster refresh rate (preferably 90Hz minimum), top-mounted tracking camera (Rift S has this), upgraded SoC, and external expansion. I'm a little wary about the latter as I'm not sure if SD cards aren't fast enough to support VR, but most VR games aren't that big to begin with.

Oh, and at least provide a first-party solution for a better mounting mechanism. The Quest is a heavier HMD due to being all-in-one, and consequently, it puts more pressure on your face. The lackluster, basic strap setup with the Quest doesn't really help much with this. So, if Oculus wants to keep the price down, offer a solution like HTC's Vive Deluxe Audio Strap where you can replace your basic strap with a better unit. A separate strap might be nice because it could also be made to work with the current Quest and any refreshes.

Can I use a VR headset as a glorified monitor or use it with non-VR ready games to get a sort of pseudo 3D effect (thinking playing RTS games with some 3d going on would be an absolute blast, like miniatures).
Yes. An example of this is Bigscreen. They don't place screens in specific eyes, but rather, place the contents of your screen in 3D space around you. This allows you the benefit of taking what's normally a small monitor and blowing up the screen size to be a gigantic theater screen or just leaving it a normal size. If I recall, it also works with headless units (i.e. those dongles that give you a fake monitor), which can give you more screens for use in VR without having actual monitors attached.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,584
345
126
I ordered a Samsung Odyssey+, tired of waiting for something better. We'll see. Hope it's an easy setup.
 
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Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,584
345
126
Opened the Samsung. Quickly found I need to get bluetooth. Need a dongle (as usual which one... but there's one for $6.49 on Amazon). Googling around it talks about 'won't work with USB 3.0 only 2.0' and people getting a USB 2.0 cable for that. Not sure if I need that, whether I can just plug it in the back of the PC or what.

Dealt with the instructions saying 'plug into display support port', it didn't fit into the "DisplayPort" - until I finally found it's an HDMI connector, why couldn't they say that...
 

sze5003

Lifer
Aug 18, 2012
13,442
328
126
Opened the Samsung. Quickly found I need to get bluetooth. Need a dongle (as usual which one... but there's one for $6.49 on Amazon). Googling around it talks about 'won't work with USB 3.0 only 2.0' and people getting a USB 2.0 cable for that. Not sure if I need that, whether I can just plug it in the back of the PC or what.

Dealt with the instructions saying 'plug into display support port', it didn't fit into the "DisplayPort" - until I finally found it's an HDMI connector, why couldn't they say that...
Did you get the Odyssey+ ? That one I believe has Bluetooth built in to the headset. My reverb has it built in too. The original Samsung Odyssey did not.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,584
345
126
Great, now the Samsung app is getting "error 1-4" which has no explanation but googling,'make sure your display cable is plugged in correctly' (it is?), and SteamVR app, which popped up and installed when I plugged the cables in, says 'plug in your vr headset' (it is, that's why the app installed...)
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,584
345
126
I plugged it into the HDMI port on the back of the PC that is on the motherboard - now I'm wondering if something isn't setup for that to work, but it's not like I want to unplug the monitor from the video card to plug it in there.
 

sze5003

Lifer
Aug 18, 2012
13,442
328
126
I plugged it into the HDMI port on the back of the PC that is on the motherboard - now I'm wondering if something isn't setup for that to work, but it's not like I want to unplug the monitor from the video card to plug it in there.
You want to use your dedicated video card HDMI port for the headset. If it's not plugged in there and your windows is running on your dedicated gpu that's why the setup won't work.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,584
345
126
The Odyssey+ has blutooth built in you don't need it on your PC.
Except I do. The manual says I do, and refers me to their web page listing the names of what bluetooth dongles I can get, and googling finds people discussing and confirming it's needed, and which setups they got that worked.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,584
345
126
You want to use your dedicated video card HDMI port for the headset. If it's not plugged in there and your windows is running on your dedicated gpu that's why the setup won't work.
But my monitor is plugged into the one HDMI port on the card. Am I supposed to unplug the monitor to use the headset? Buy some sort of splitter or switch? I would have expected this to be easy, like including a passthrough connector or something.
 

sze5003

Lifer
Aug 18, 2012
13,442
328
126
But my monitor is plugged into the one HDMI port on the card. Am I supposed to unplug the monitor to use the headset? Buy some sort of splitter or switch? I would have expected this to be easy, like including a passthrough connector or something.
Not sure what gpu you have but most cards now a days have more than one HDMI port. I can't find anything online about the Odyssey + needing blutooth dongles unless you want to use a wireless Xbox controller. If you are using the motion controllers they should auto connect to the headset.

Unless you possibly got an original Odyssey..
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,584
345
126
Not sure what gpu you have but most cards now a days have more than one HDMI port. I can't find anything online about the Odyssey + needing blutooth dongles unless you want to use a wireless Xbox controller. If you are using the motion controllers they should auto connect to the headset.
No, it's the Odyssey+, using the included controllers. The manual says they require bluetooth on the PC and getting the dongle if it doesn't have it. I'm using the RX 580, which google says has one HDMI. So should I just give up on VR until I get a video card with more than one HDMI? Wish I knew before ordering.
 

Craig234

Lifer
May 1, 2006
38,584
345
126
Samsung support is *horrible*, trying to ask this one question.

Their phone menu doesn't even have an option for the product. So I asked for a manager to tell that to and was told to hold 'a couple minutes' over and over until the call was 25 minutes.

So I said screw it, you tell the manager about the problem of this long hold and transfer me to Odyssey support.

He said, he can't, you have to call a special number - despite the Odyssey support web page giving the main Samsung number.

OK, so I called the new number, and it went to some business that's trying to sell a home health product - not even Samsung it seemed.

So I called yet again and after a long time I was transferred to Odyssey support, and talked to someone who needed everything repeated and gave wrong info over and over.

She said the cable is bad and I need to return the product and get a new one. I explained that no, I posted here and was told it needs to be plugged into the video card, not the motherboard, that's the problem, and I'm asking how when the monitor is using the port.

She needed it repeated, and then insisted that it should be plugged into the motherboard. I repeated it like two more times, and she put me on hold to look into it, and came back and said it needs to be plugged into the video card, as if that had answered the question.

I said that takes back to my original question. She then started rambling about plugging the USB cable in. I asked her what my original question was, she had no idea, so I repeated again, how do I set it up when the monitor is using the HDMI port.

Then she said you need to buy a second video card to use it.

I asked to talk to someone more familiar with the product and she put me on hold and the into yet another phone queue, pick your product, I picked PC and it went onto permanent hold.
 
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