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General VR discussion thread

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pj-

Senior member
May 5, 2015
421
162
116
No opinions on those 3d headphones?
I'd say they will probably be a waste for VR. The headsets are already tracking your head position relative to the source of the audio and apply HRTFs to make sounds more realistic. Headphones with multiple small drivers are almost always inferior to ones with a single large driver per ear.

For vive, I actually don't mind the earbuds and they are extremely convenient if you route them like this:
http://i.imgur.com/bvo9U5O.jpg
 

ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,793
825
126
Define "mess with." I just put them on the sides of the headset, put on the headset, then move them back to my ears. Quite easy.
I realize using headphones on the Vive probably isn't THAT big of a deal but the Rift spoiled me. Seriously, the implementation is nearly perfect. What is cool as well is they are easily changeable if someone makes better 3rd party pieces.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
45,580
2,834
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I haven't settled down on a dedicated VR computer yet. I think I'm going to go with a GTX1080 Ti, however, which will apparently be unveiled at CES in early January: (more time to save up lol)

http://www.hngn.com/articles/219878/20161203/nvidia-geforce-gtx-1080-ti-unveiling-ces-2017-january-5.htm

A laptop or mini PC would be more convenient, but anywhere I go, there's almost always a TV, monitor, or projector available, so it's not a biggie. The GTX-equipped laptops have generally dismal reviews & the mini PC's are kind of limited in the CPU department, so I'm thinking a 4ghz i7 + 1TB NVMe 960 Pro (edit: sorry I meant the regular 960 non-pro) + GTX1080 Ti + 16 gigs of RAM.
 
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pj-

Senior member
May 5, 2015
421
162
116
I haven't settled down on a dedicated VR computer yet. I think I'm going to go with a GTX1080 Ti, however, which will apparently be unveiled at CES in early January: (more time to save up lol)

http://www.hngn.com/articles/219878/20161203/nvidia-geforce-gtx-1080-ti-unveiling-ces-2017-january-5.htm

A laptop or mini PC would be more convenient, but anywhere I go, there's almost always a TV, monitor, or projector available, so it's not a biggie. The GTX-equipped laptops have generally dismal reviews & the mini PC's are kind of limited in the CPU department, so I'm thinking a 4ghz i7 + 1TB NVMe 960 Pro + GTX1080 Ti + 16 gigs of RAM.
I don't think there's a real world difference between the 960 Pro and Evo. Save yourself $150 and get an Evo
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
45,580
2,834
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I don't think there's a real world difference between the 960 Pro and Evo. Save yourself $150 and get an Evo
Definitely snappier ime. I've got a handful of EVO 500's & 950 500's in my shop right now & the NVMe's are definitely zippier! Then again, could get a 2TB SATA SSD for the same price as a 1TB 960...
 

pj-

Senior member
May 5, 2015
421
162
116
Definitely snappier ime. I've got a handful of EVO 500's & 950 500's in my shop right now & the NVMe's are definitely zippier! Then again, could get a 2TB SATA SSD for the same price as a 1TB 960...
960 evo is also nvme. 960 pro is incrementally faster for quite a bit extra $
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
45,580
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960 evo is also nvme. 960 pro is incrementally faster for quite a bit extra $
Oh I didn't realize I had written Pro, I see what you mean now. No, yeah, I meant just the regular 960 sorry!
 

Childs

Lifer
Jul 9, 2000
11,450
7
81
So I got my LG G3 in, but not the Cardboad kit yet. One thing thats messed up is this G3 is better than my phone! 1440p on a 5" screen is pretty nice. A little laggy, but I can see why everyone is moving to bigger phones.
 

flexy

Diamond Member
Sep 28, 2001
8,464
154
106
I have to say the lack of "complete" AAA titles for VR (although many are being in development and are now coming out almost on a daily basis) is a serious turn-off, for BOTH, Vive and Oculus.

With the Touch now released and 53 titles released for Oculus, I have to say this strongly speaks in Oculus' favor.

(Seriously, when you browse Steam and filter out the alphas and early access titles, SOME even pre-alpha, there is not too much left. It sorta irks me really even if a game only costs $1.99 or so since you're basically paying to be testing, and of course there are bugs and missing features and this and that)

Edit: Sorta related. I was really looking forward to X-Plane 11 since a good flysim for the Rift would be awesome. Low and behold, VR support "is planned in the future" and the current Beta doesn't offer it.

So I took a look at "Aerofly FS2". The experience of "really being in a cockpit" is absolutely amazing, or even from looking at your plane from outside.. yes it's "really" a big darn plane...holy shit....those are sensations which simply won't come across when you play on a normal 2D screen.

The only gripe I have with Aerofly is that the standard textures are "meh"
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
45,580
2,834
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I have to say the lack of "complete" AAA titles for VR (although many are being in development and are now coming out almost on a daily basis) is a serious turn-off, for BOTH, Vive and Oculus.
Agreed. PC VR apologists are quick to say otherwise, but out of the 500+ VR titles in the Steam library and the 70+ titles in my personal library...meh. To be fair, Vive didn't really give developers much heads-up to spend a year making a AAA game, and although Oculus did with their pre-release units like the DK2, developers weren't sure if it was going to take off & who wants to spend millions of dollars on a gamble in a limited market? Chicken & egg issue for sure.
 

ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,793
825
126
I have to say the lack of "complete" AAA titles for VR (although many are being in development and are now coming out almost on a daily basis) is a serious turn-off, for BOTH, Vive and Oculus.

With the Touch now released and 53 titles released for Oculus, I have to say this strongly speaks in Oculus' favor.
That number is VERY misleading. The large majority of them are existing Vive games that got touch added to them, the other majority were Oculus games that got touch added to them. There are only a handful of new exclusives and none of them are AAA. Unless Oculus changes some of its practices, SteamVR is really the way to go, but that still remains to be seen.
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
45,580
2,834
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That number is VERY misleading. The large majority of them are existing Vive games that got touch added to them, the other majority were Oculus games that got touch added to them. There are only a handful of new exclusives and none of them are AAA. Unless Oculus changes some of its practices, SteamVR is really the way to go, but that still remains to be seen.
I see a lot of potential, but developers are still learning what works & what doesn't. I wrote a few responses about La Peri, which I thought was really cool (interactive story with VR ballet), but it introduces new problems like feeling a cold disconnect from the story without more available choices & interactivity. Very easy to get bored in VR games & experiences if they're not properly setup because you SHOULD be doing something instead of just being a spectator.

I think something like a Lara Croft story would be really fun...an action/adventure game where you combine the mechanics of Climbey with QuiVR & other activities so you're solving puzzles, climbing stuff, shooting stuff, etc. Resident Evil would be amazing on the VR platform for sure. But games like that take a year (or more) to develop. I'm hoping the PSVR will kickstart things because a lot more people will have access to it...at least where I live, it's been one of the hottest toys this season & you can't find it anywhere!
 

bguile

Senior member
Nov 30, 2011
486
29
91
I see a lot of potential, but developers are still learning what works & what doesn't. I wrote a few responses about La Peri, which I thought was really cool (interactive story with VR ballet), but it introduces new problems like feeling a cold disconnect from the story without more available choices & interactivity. Very easy to get bored in VR games & experiences if they're not properly setup because you SHOULD be doing something instead of just being a spectator.

I think something like a Lara Croft story would be really fun...an action/adventure game where you combine the mechanics of Climbey with QuiVR & other activities so you're solving puzzles, climbing stuff, shooting stuff, etc. Resident Evil would be amazing on the VR platform for sure. But games like that take a year (or more) to develop. I'm hoping the PSVR will kickstart things because a lot more people will have access to it...at least where I live, it's been one of the hottest toys this season & you can't find it anywhere!

Resident evil IS pretty amazing on the PSVR. It's exclusive for one year though.

I don't expect too many full fledged AAA titles for awhile though. Fallout 4 for sure, but that is the only big name I can think of. And a handful of titles that are tied to each vr platform. Maybe if the sales figures come out strong for the PSVR, and Microsoft gives more details on project scorpio will developers being willing to take a chance.
 

maniacalpha1-1

Diamond Member
Feb 7, 2010
3,562
14
81
BUT....this is also in addition to what someone else said. it's NOT about games. Yes some "games" are great, but for me the appeal with VR is actually more with experiences, virtual travel, art, design, virtual social platforms etc. and not even so much "games" per se.
Good point, when will we have the software and ancillary hardware setups that allow office workers to virtually telecommute? i.e. you put your headset on, and see your cubicle as if you were in the office, including simulated multiple monitors (and since they're simulated you can have as many screens as you want). And since it's a shared environment, your boss can walk (virtually) to your desk, see what you're doing, talk to you in proximity VOIP?

I would think that it would be very good for everyone, if everyone that could telecommute in this fashion, did - businesses would save on rent for office space, roads would have less wear and less rush hour traffic, employees would have less gas expense and car wear, etc.
 

Dr. Zaus

Lifer
Oct 16, 2008
11,770
347
126
Right VR is new form of communication: asking about games for VR is like asking about the newly invented TV "does it have any good music"."
 

flexy

Diamond Member
Sep 28, 2001
8,464
154
106
I asked this on the oculus forum already but I NEVER get any constructive answers there.

My question was whether a certain level of chromatic aberration (eg. "rainbows", colour fringes/seams) around especially white text on black background on the CV1 is normal...and what level of chromatic aberration is normal?

I am using the "Adjust your Lenses" IPD adjust screen as a reference.

The green cross is clear, and below, the first line of text which is still somewhat in focus is also "ok".
But the rest of the text, and in particular the big "Adjust Your Lenses" shows a blue fringe on top of the letters and a red fringe at the bottom. I just want to know whether this is "normal".

It is clearly from the optics since when looking "into the Rift" from a distance you cannot see the color seams, so I think it would also be pointless to make a photo. By the way I am aware that a certain level of chromatic aberration is "normal", for the Oculus and the Vive, just wanting to know what level would be "normal".
 

Kaido

Elite Member & Kitchen Overlord
Feb 14, 2004
45,580
2,834
126
Good point, when will we have the software and ancillary hardware setups that allow office workers to virtually telecommute? i.e. you put your headset on, and see your cubicle as if you were in the office, including simulated multiple monitors (and since they're simulated you can have as many screens as you want). And since it's a shared environment, your boss can walk (virtually) to your desk, see what you're doing, talk to you in proximity VOIP?

I would think that it would be very good for everyone, if everyone that could telecommute in this fashion, did - businesses would save on rent for office space, roads would have less wear and less rush hour traffic, employees would have less gas expense and car wear, etc.
Like Sabrewings said, there's a couple apps like that already. One of them lets you screenshare with 3 other people, so you can choose a computer monitor, a curved TV set, a projector, etc. and look around to see what other people are doing on their screens - and voice chat. Pretty nifty.

It's limited by screen resolution right now. Text looks like crap. The number of pixels on the Vive is too dang high! lol. But eventually we'll get Retina-quality VR screens & it won't be an issue. Although I would say we are at least 2-3 years away from that right now, I don't think the second generation is going to solve that issue. I did read that the PSVR has a trick to remove SDE, so that would be nice, but especially for AR/VR setups like Microsoft shows in their futuristic commercials, you'd want a really high resolution so text would look clean.
 

flexy

Diamond Member
Sep 28, 2001
8,464
154
106
It's not just "higher resolution" - everything really needs to go hand in hand. Higher resolution also requires beefier computers, and/or better new rendering methods like FOVeated rendering otherwise you're literally wasting GPU resources on rendering where 90% of what is rendered doesn't even need to be rendered in detail.

As I see it, the current systems (Oculus, Vive)..the main "issue" is actually optics. These Fresnel lenses are simply headache inducing, but this then opens other problems like that non-Fresnel optics would be much heavier etc. SDE (for me) is actually the smallest of all issues, it's really the entirety of all things, reso, limited FOV, god rays etc., chromatic aberration etc.
 

pj-

Senior member
May 5, 2015
421
162
116
It's not just "higher resolution" - everything really needs to go hand in hand. Higher resolution also requires beefier computers, and/or better new rendering methods like FOVeated rendering otherwise you're literally wasting GPU resources on rendering where 90% of what is rendered doesn't even need to be rendered in detail.

As I see it, the current systems (Oculus, Vive)..the main "issue" is actually optics. These Fresnel lenses are simply headache inducing, but this then opens other problems like that non-Fresnel optics would be much heavier etc. SDE (for me) is actually the smallest of all issues, it's really the entirety of all things, reso, limited FOV, god rays etc., chromatic aberration etc.
I agree that the optics need to improve along with the screens. I don't think I'd buy an updated headset with 4k screens and foveated rendering if the optics weren't also significantly better.

I remember trying the vive at best buy before they were released and noticed a lot of chromatic aberration. On the one I own I see very little. Some SteamVR updates have mentioned improvements in CA so I guess it's possible to improve in software. Oculus uses a different shape of lens though so it may not work the same. Perhaps they went for a larger in focus "sweet spot" at the expense of more CA.
 
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