General VR discussion thread

[Aikouka]

Got my tracking information through FedEx Delivery Manager only about half an hour ago. It looks like I was good to tell someone, "No... don't schedule a late meeting for me on Thursday as I've got a good feeling about that day."

 

[Sabrewings]

Congrats!

 

[Broburger]

My estimated shipping date for the rift is May 28 - June 2 so I have a long way to go. I'm going to get a Gear VR in the mean time.

 

[Blue_Max]

Edit: BTW, no sickness. Neither me nor the wife.

It's probably one of those things where the player won't get sick because they're the ones moving their head and body around the environment.

A viewer getting the play image on the TV just sees everything bobbing up/down/sideways without moving which can mess up that equilibrium. 10 minutes of that hilarious Job Simulator on youtube did me in for an hour!

 

[Kaido]

so who's going rift and who's going vive? both? psvr?

I pre-ordered both, although now that the Oculus games run on the Vive, I am seriously thinking about canceling the Rift today. My Rift shipment got pushed out a month to the end of June, so it won't arrive for well over two months anyway. Still haven't gotten any tracking information from HTC, but it sounds like the HTC & SubPac would be a killer combination, and since I was going to use & then flip whichever headset I liked less, I dunno if the eBay market will still be at ~$1200 per CV1 in 2.5 months once the market gets a little more saturated.

 

[Sabrewings]

It's probably one of those things where the player won't get sick because they're the ones moving their head and body around the environment.

A viewer getting the play image on the TV just sees everything bobbing up/down/sideways without moving which can mess up that equilibrium. 10 minutes of that hilarious Job Simulator on youtube did me in for an hour!

We didn't really have a problem there either. One of us was always watching at any given point except for the first 30 minutes.

so who's going rift and who's going vive? both? psvr?

Vive only here. There's nothing the Rift does it can't, and its motion controls are already proven and quite versatile. The exclusive games to the Oculus Store aren't near enough to make me want it. There just isn't much allure for me.

If room scale isn't your thing, then the Rift is probably a good choice so you can save some money. Though, even with that, I feel like the Vive's tracking is better than the Rift CV1 that I tried. I also don't personally feel there's any significant difference in comfort (if the Vive is worn right, which from Youtube and reviews you can tell a lot of people don't).

Edit: Things are getting rough for Palmer on r/Oculus.

https://as.reddit.com/r/oculus/comments/4fi8cd/oculus_your_website_is_garbage/d29bpxt?context=3

(Bullshit attitude he has there, to be fair.)

 

[SexyK]

Preordered both. Rift on within 30 minutes of perorders opening and Vive almost a month after preorders opened. Vive should be here in the next few days. No sign of the Rift until at least June.

Have to say I'm not that broken up about it. The Vive appears to be the more compelling and complete experience. Will probably still pick up the Rift to try it out and then flip it. If there's a glut of CV1's on eBay by then, though, I may just cancel before it ships.

 

[Kaido]

I'm contemplating getting a VR-grade laptop instead of building a custom desktop, now that they have the desktop 980 GPU in laptops: (not an "m" chip!)

http://www.geforce.com/whats-new/articles/introducing-the-geforce-gtx-980-notebooks

That would be handy for toting my Vive setup with me (should be easy enough to mount the Lighthouses to some of my photography tripods) & also being able to monitor what's on the screen. Downside is the MSI is like three grand (eek!) and you're stuck with a GTX980. I could build a Pascal-based system this summer for nearly half the price.

 

[Midwayman]

I'm contemplating getting a VR-grade laptop instead of building a custom desktop, now that they have the desktop 980 GPU in laptops: (not an "m" chip!)

http://www.geforce.com/whats-new/articles/introducing-the-geforce-gtx-980-notebooks

That would be handy for toting my Vive setup with me (should be easy enough to mount the Lighthouses to some of my photography tripods) & also being able to monitor what's on the screen. Downside is the MSI is like three grand (eek!) and you're stuck with a GTX980. I could build a Pascal-based system this summer for nearly half the price.

A SFF PC would be way cheaper if you just need the ability to transport it.

 

[Aikouka]

That would be handy for toting my Vive setup with me (should be easy enough to mount the Lighthouses to some of my photography tripods) & also being able to monitor what's on the screen. Downside is the MSI is like three grand (eek!) and you're stuck with a GTX980. I could build a Pascal-based system this summer for nearly half the price.

Yeah, the laptop variant of the desktop GTX 980 is stupidly expensive. My 980M laptop was already fairly pricey as it is, but the 980 is just ridiculous. Honestly, I'm going to try the 980M anyway just to see how it does. I've heard comments that even the desktop GTX 970, which is listed as the minimum, is truly the bare minimum and it's even recommended to at least go with the GTX 980 instead. If that's true, then the 980M will definitely have issues since it's actually below the GTX 970 in performance. In some ways, I think it just depends on the game that you're playing too. Some of the VR games don't seem to be that fancy with their graphics.

 

[Kaido]

A SFF PC would be way cheaper if you just need the ability to transport it.

It's buried in thread, but my planned build includes this case with a handle:

http://www.amazon.com/Corsair-Yellow-Mini-ITX-Computer-CC-9011065-WW/dp/B00N3NUU60/

The two downsides are:

1. Still kinda large
2. No display screen to see what's going on

For example, my Gear VR is really annoying to use with kids because when you take the headset off to give to them, it pauses the game or movie thanks to the sensor on the inside, and once they put it on, you can't see what they see, and if they're younger kids, trying to get them to click on a menu item to restart it is just about impossible Plus it's fun to see what the user is experiencing in VR. I take my Gear VR everywhere & it's crazy fun to see people's reactions.

 

[Midwayman]

It's buried in thread, but my planned build includes this case with a handle:

http://www.amazon.com/Corsair-Yellow-Mini-ITX-Computer-CC-9011065-WW/dp/B00N3NUU60/

The two downsides are:

1. Still kinda large
2. No display screen to see what's going on

For example, my Gear VR is really annoying to use with kids because when you take the headset off to give to them, it pauses the game or movie thanks to the sensor on the inside, and once they put it on, you can't see what they see, and if they're younger kids, trying to get them to click on a menu item to restart it is just about impossible Plus it's fun to see what the user is experiencing in VR. I take my Gear VR everywhere & it's crazy fun to see people's reactions.

Look into riftcat. Basically turns your phone based set into a cheap rift.

 

[flexy]

If room scale isn't your thing, then the Rift is probably a good choice so you can save some money.

That's the classic argument for the Rift and I shared this not even 2 weeks ago...HOWEVER I see a VR kit without motion controllers as ENTIRELY.POINTLESS.

It's not only that the Rift *at this point* doesn't have the controllers (yet), it's also that its unclear how titles and devs will support motion controllers on the Rift given that they're sort-of seen as something "optional".

When O Touch is out, the other question is about how much CPU they use.

IMHO...if you watch whatever video where someone demos the Vive and you see people picking up weapons, sword fighting, throwing etc..etc...and you realize YOU CANNOT DO THAT ON THE RIFT at this very moment..only in a pseudo way *right now* w/ Xbox controllers....there is no way in hell I'd get a Rift. I don't even care about "room scale" that much but I definitely want to have the option to actually interact in 3D space, with my hands. Everything else is halfass.

** Seeing that the underlying h/w, display etc. is identical and you get the controllers, built-in cam etc. with the Vive...I dare to say that the Vive is by far the more complete package. TBH I think OR made a big mistake not shipping this WITH the controllers and treat them sortof like an optional feature, not as something essential.

** Edit: In defense of the Rift, the built-in headphones for me however would be ONE major plus, I imagine the Vive and the need for a good headset + WIRES + WIRES + WIRES, what idiocy is this supposed to be? How can you talk about room scale but would have to connect not only the Vive with a multitude of Wires to your PC but also headphones..another pair of of wires. This alone would be a reason to me to just categorically reject any "room scale" game/app - it does NOT make too much sense to me unless the entire system would be wireless.

 

[Kaido]

Yeah, the laptop variant of the desktop GTX 980 is stupidly expensive. My 980M laptop was already fairly pricey as it is, but the 980 is just ridiculous. Honestly, I'm going to try the 980M anyway just to see how it does. I've heard comments that even the desktop GTX 970, which is listed as the minimum, is truly the bare minimum and it's even recommended to at least go with the GTX 980 instead. If that's true, then the 980M will definitely have issues since it's actually below the GTX 970 in performance. In some ways, I think it just depends on the game that you're playing too. Some of the VR games don't seem to be that fancy with their graphics.

Yeah, although I don't think it's so much about the graphics as much as having to output to 'dual' high-definition screens @ 90hz, which is what I'm guessing chokes the GPU. I wouldn't mind paying a few hundred extra for a laptop (screen, battery, etc), but $1.5k extra is nuts, especially since you're not getting a Pascal chip that's going to last longer into the future.

 

[ImpulsE69]

In defense of the rift as well, most everyone says the rift is better overall and expect it to be the better one once touch is actually out...(but who knows when that will be). People are just wow'd by room scale/motion at the moment.

I still maintain that room scale will be very niche and somewhat of a fad for home use, and touch controllers will simply be a game by game basis, depending on the type of game. Time will tell though. I would like to see it all evolve to where everyone WANTS a dedicated VR room

 

[Stuka87]

It's buried in thread, but my planned build includes this case with a handle:

http://www.amazon.com/Corsair-Yellow-Mini-ITX-Computer-CC-9011065-WW/dp/B00N3NUU60/

The two downsides are:

1. Still kinda large
2. No display screen to see what's going on

For example, my Gear VR is really annoying to use with kids because when you take the headset off to give to them, it pauses the game or movie thanks to the sensor on the inside, and once they put it on, you can't see what they see, and if they're younger kids, trying to get them to click on a menu item to restart it is just about impossible Plus it's fun to see what the user is experiencing in VR. I take my Gear VR everywhere & it's crazy fun to see people's reactions.

I have this case (Although in black) with the rig in my signature. I really like it. only downside is you cannot put a full 12" GPU in it. I also had to mess with fans a bit to get rid of hot spots. The stock setup for the fans kind of sucks. I ended up with the rear fan as an exhaust, two 120mm fronts as exhaust, my H100i as intake, and then the GPU basically acts as an intake. This setup has worked great, no hot spots inside the case, and everything stays cool. oh, and I am using enermax fans in the case, not the stock corsair ones, which suck.

 

[SlitheryDee]

In defense of the rift as well, most everyone says the rift is better overall and expect it to be the better one once touch is actually out...(but who knows when that will be). People are just wow'd by room scale/motion at the moment.

I still maintain that room scale will be very niche and somewhat of a fad for home use, and touch controllers will simply be a game by game basis, depending on the type of game. Time will tell though. I would like to see it all evolve to where everyone WANTS a dedicated VR room

The main thing that has me still thinking about the rift is how much more comfortable it apparently is for extended sessions. That could be a very big deal for me down the road. Since the rift will eventually gain similar capabilities to the vive in terms of room scale interaction, it may well be the smarter buy. The descriptions I've read in various reviews of how clunky, heavy, and hot the vive feels in comparison to the rift do give me pause.
http://forums.anandtech.com//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/

 

[ImpulsE69]

The main thing that has me still thinking about the rift is how much more comfortable it apparently is for extended sessions. That could be a very big deal for me down the road. Since the rift will eventually gain similar capabilities to the vive in terms of room scale interaction, it may well be the smarter buy. The descriptions I've read in various reviews of how clunky, heavy, and hot the vive feels in comparison to the rift do give me pause.

My biggest struggle with the Rift at the moment is I am leery of how they are running things. I think they want the Apple method and complete control over everything so they can make money off software. Personally I would rather see something this new be open for people to experiment with than locked down.

 

[gorobei]

while the price of the rift and vive are significantly high enough that everyone should give pause when it comes to a purchasing decision, you need to remember that if you do jump on the vr train for the long term then these first gen units will be as deprecated as the dk1 is to the cv1.

in terms of progression:
res: 1080x1200(1k) per eye -> (2k) -> probably 4k
color depth: 24bit -> 32bit
freq: 90hz -> sky's the limit but probably will stop around 200hz due to diminishing return
display: oled -> something like the avegant lightfield DLP or even nvidia's microlens array that will eliminate any of fresnel lens issues.


the second gen will likely fix any wearability/comfort issues, so no point in agonizing over the initial versions unless you really need to be an early adopter.

 

[Kaido]

That's the classic argument for the Rift and I shared this not even 2 weeks ago...HOWEVER I see a VR kit without motion controllers as ENTIRELY.POINTLESS.

1. Using VR with a gamepad is just fine. I use one with my Gear VR all the time. It's the same as using a controller on an Xbox...it definitely doesn't limit the experience to where it's pointless. For example, Adventure Time is fantastic with a gamepad!

2. VR controllers aren't the end-all, be-all right now. Case in point, look at what Leap is doing with their existing $79 hand & finger sensor:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnlCGw-0R8g

It gets complicated from there because even with physical VR controllers, you're stuck to the shape it has & the buttons it contains. It's like the Wii...the motion sticks work for hockey, bowling, tennis, everything. But even then, and even in VR, you're not getting any force-feedback, like if you're virtual swordfighting, so now you need a Tesla suit. VR controls are going to be a tricky thing. I have my VR bike coming next month; they have VR omni-treadmills, bird-flight simulators, motion-control flight sims & racing sims...it's a complicated question.

3. Despite us living in 2016 & expecting everything right off the bat, VR is still bleeding-edge. Wireless tech for headsets is being developed, but we're still years away from 120-degree FOV with 8K x 8K resolution, plus wireless, plus batteries, plus any augmented reality stuff that they want to throw in Hololens-style. Everything will be fleshed out over time, get better, and get cheaper, but the thing to keep in mind is that this is, to the public, first-generation stuff.

Also, it doesn't take much to impress people. I don't mean that in a bad way, but as kids, we'd get sucked into 8-bit Nintendo for hours, so even though stuff like the Galaxy VR isn't PC Master Race level, there are still plenty of way-fun apps & VR experiences to be had, even though the technology isn't fully there yet.

 

[Kaido]

Look into riftcat. Basically turns your phone based set into a cheap rift.

Haha that's crazy!

 

[Sabrewings]

** Edit: In defense of the Rift, the built-in headphones for me however would be ONE major plus, I imagine the Vive and the need for a good headset + WIRES + WIRES + WIRES, what idiocy is this supposed to be? How can you talk about room scale but would have to connect not only the Vive with a multitude of Wires to your PC but also headphones..another pair of of wires. This alone would be a reason to me to just categorically reject any "room scale" game/app - it does NOT make too much sense to me unless the entire system would be wireless.

The Vive has a 3.5mm headphone jack onboard, so no need to run another wire. I use wireless and am totally happy with that. The existing Vive cable, which is three wires molded together, is not insignificant but I have yet to find it to be a problem. Only once have I stepped on it and pulled on my head a bit. You really do quickly develop a sixth sense for it and forget it's there while you're brain manages it for you.

I personally would rather use my own cans, and the onboard jack on the Vive is a big plus to those of a similar mindset as me. Wireless works great for me, but it might not for everyone and everyone has headset tastes.

Edit: Also going to talk about some ergonomics here. Having tried the Rift CV1 and now owning the Vive, I personally don't feel much difference between them. One thing I noticed and that has been pointed out on Reddit is that you can see from pictures in reviews that complain about ergonomics that they either wear the HMD too low on their face, have the harness positioned incorrectly, or both. I feel I have it properly adjusted and have no issues at all with weight on my face, heat, movement, cutting into ears, general discomfort, etc. I just finished wearing it for 2.5 hours and also don't have "VR face" imprints. The HMD is meant to be worn to where the top is about halfway up your forehead. If you just put it on like goggles (top just above eyebrows) it will not feel very good and you will have to play with the IPD more to get the ideal look from the optics.

Regarding the motion controllers, I absolutely love them. I love that the battery gauges are on the VR representations. I love the way they feel and the track pads. I wish the grip buttons were used more as I can engage them at will and have no issue accidentally engaging them. They definitely feel like a more natural "grabbing" motions. Though, due to the trigger, their best usage is for guns and man does it feel awesome that way. SPT is lots of fun and you lose lots of time very quickly.

I tried Apollo 11 today as my first sit down experience. Pretty fun if you're a space nerd like myself. The minigames were neat. As for the Vive, it handled it excellently as I expected it would. I was able to get up and move about my play space with minimal chaperone and got to experience the virtual spaces more. It was also easy to find my seat again without needing to use the camera, but it was there if I did need it. The controllers worked well for the minigames which primarily used the track pad and trigger. As for more sit down, I'm probably going to stick my head into Elite for the first time in a year and see how I feel about it, rendering bug be damned. That or I might try some The Gallery, as I haven't found some uninterrupted time to enjoy a story like that just yet. I go out of town for the weekend early in the morning, so I have to use my time wisely.

Edit 2: The Vive also has an onboard USB hub port for items like the Leap Motion so you don't need an additional wire for that either.

 

[gorobei]

sadly usb-C with its displayport passthru, normal data bus, and 100watt power charging is perfect for VR cable management but we wont see it for while.

 

[Kaido]

Haha this looks awesome:

http://imgur.com/gallery/a5OGIKN

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sik2Fsphe80

 

[Kaido]

Acer has a GTX 980 laptop:

http://www.theverge.com/2016/4/21/11479316/acer-predator-17x-vr-ready-gaming-laptop

$2,799